Jim Gunner Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Does anyone out there know what these two tiny nodules are on the brass of a Lyalvale English Sporter 12 cartridge? Curiously, I have other batches of English Sporters that do not have them and they look too clean to be a deformation. I probably would not have noticed it, but they would not fit into the chamber of my Greener GP. Looking at other cartridges I've used, none of those have it. english sporter cartridge.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) Can you confirm if they are present on only the fired cartridges as per the photos or on unused ones also as your text suggests. Edited February 20 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 A mistake in the making of the head (Swaging) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gunner Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Can you confirm if they are present on only the fired cartridges as per the photos or on unused ones also as your text suggests. They were present on the unfired cartridges, that's how I first noticed it. They would not fit into the chamber of a Greener GP. They fired perfectly fine and ejected without any issues from a Browning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Jim Gunner said: They were present on the unfired cartridges, that's how I first noticed it. They would not fit into the chamber of a Greener GP. They fired perfectly fine and ejected without any issues from a Browning. On every one or every other one, in the carton of 25? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gunner Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: On every one or every other one, in the carton of 25? I've had a quick rummage and found 24 spent cartridges with the nodule. They could possibly be from the same box but I couldn't say for sure. But, they are definitely from the same slab. I just found the same on a Power Red and a Super Light too! I like this 'Swaging' theory. Seems like it could be a production anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 To me that looks like poor setting of the cartridge loading machine when completing the closing of the case, a fast rotating tool is used and the case requires gripping at the rim to stop it rotating with the tool, to much gripping force can result in damaging the case. So all three types have been loaded on the same machine. Send the photos to Express for confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gunner Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 Thank you both for the help. I'll have a look for an email address or form, see if I can reach out to Lyalvale. Like I said they performed absolutely fine, but maybe this is an occasional issue that comes from cartridges in that price bracket. If I get any feedback from the manufacturer I'll drop an update. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 I haven’t bought Lyalvale cart’s for years. I won’t bore you with the whys and wherefores - but this quality issue doesn’t surprise me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gunner Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 5 hours ago, Fellside said: I haven’t bought Lyalvale cart’s for years. I won’t bore you with the whys and wherefores - but this quality issue doesn’t surprise me at all. Any good recommendations that'll do good job breaking clays and not the bank? I'm always up for trying something new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 I would say the tooling die (female) for forming the head was damaged, but not sure how inspection did not pick this up, I would defiantly inform Lyalvale about this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 23 hours ago, Jim Gunner said: Any good recommendations that'll do good job breaking clays and not the bank? I'm always up for trying something new Everyone will have their favourites. I can only tell you what mine is: Fiocchi F Blue. In terms of price they appear to be a cheapie, but they are a quality performer made with good components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinj Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 They definitely look as if the bumps came from a mistake in the production tooling. If they were added to centralise the cartridge in the chamber for instance, there would probably have been three per cartridge. Thumbs up for FBlu's although you might find that they pattern on the tight side, I use them for long targets and am amazed at what can be broken with FBlu's and a half choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 I mentioned damaged tooling but looking at the raised lump the form/shape looks defined almost as if it had been machined into the die, unlike the type of damage you get when a die chips/flakes, be interesting to hear from Lyalvale what they think may have caused this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gunner Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 11 hours ago, Fellside said: Everyone will have their favourites. I can only tell you what mine is: Fiocchi F Blue. In terms of price they appear to be a cheapie, but they are a quality performer made with good components. I did try a box of Fiocchi FBlu not too long ago, the chap in the shop said it's all he ever shoots with. Seemed like a solid practice cartridge. They did not disappoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, martinj said: They definitely look as if the bumps came from a mistake in the production tooling. If they were added to centralise the cartridge in the chamber for instance, there would probably have been three per cartridge. Thumbs up for FBlu's although you might find that they pattern on the tight side, I use them for long targets and am amazed at what can be broken with FBlu's and a half choke. Agreed re FBlues. I tend to use more open chokes - and then patterns are fine. I think high antimony shot does just pattern tighter generally. Anyway, I should stop there otherwise a long cartridge ramble may ensue…… 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinj Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 18 minutes ago, Fellside said: Agreed re FBlues. I tend to use more open chokes - and then patterns are fine. I think high antimony shot does just pattern tighter generally. Anyway, I should stop there otherwise a long cartridge ramble may ensue…… 🙂 Then I'll keep it short, FBlu's are Italian 7.5 shot (English No. 7) hence slightly more energy at range. Re the bumps (Old-Un) yes they look well defined with a nice lead-in so quite deliberate for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, martinj said: Then I'll keep it short, FBlu's are Italian 7.5 shot (English No. 7) hence slightly more energy at range. Re the bumps (Old-Un) yes they look well defined with a nice lead-in so quite deliberate for some reason I meant I (myself) was in danger of cartridge rambling…..! Yes UK 7s - I find them to be great on real pigeons as well as the clay type….. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinj Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fellside said: I meant I (myself) was in danger of cartridge rambling…..! Yes UK 7s - I find them to be great on real pigeons as well as the clay type….. 👍 I suppose they would be apart from the plastic wad which are discouraged where I shoot Edited February 22 by martinj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 4 hours ago, martinj said: I suppose they would be apart from the plastic wad which are discouraged where I shoot Fair point MartinJ. There is always the fibre F3 for clays and real pigeons. Same thing re UK 7s. Last time I bought them - about £280 / thousand. Probably a tad more now. Quite like these Italian jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 22/02/2024 at 18:56, Fellside said: Fair point MartinJ. There is always the fibre F3 for clays and real pigeons. Same thing re UK 7s. Last time I bought them - about £280 / thousand. Probably a tad more now. Quite like these Italian jobs. The F3 are part of fiocchi English traditional line of cartridges so are supposed to have u.k. shot sizes not Italian so they are u.k. 7.5 or 2.3mm if that really makes any difference. The Fblu’s are not part of the English tradition line so are italian 7.5 or 2.4mm shot. Edited February 24 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 6 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: The F3 are part of fiocchi English traditional line of cartridges so are supposed to have u.k. shot sizes not Italian so they are u.k. 7.5 or 2.3mm if that really makes any difference. The Fblu’s are not part of the English tradition line so are italian 7.5 or 2.4mm shot. The ones I bought were dedicated clay cart’s, called F3. They are red (which of course makes them hit more…🙂) and they have 7 1/2 and 2.4mm stamped on the box. I think they cost about £300 ish now. I’m sure they do an F3 game range also - I hear good things about them but have not tried any yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Fellside said: The ones I bought were dedicated clay cart’s, called F3. They are red (which of course makes them hit more…🙂) and they have 7 1/2 and 2.4mm stamped on the box. I think they cost about £300 ish now. I’m sure they do an F3 game range also - I hear good things about them but have not tried any yet. thanks for correcting my understanding, as was told all the english traditional range was true english shot size goes to show you cannot believe all you are told, not used the F3 only the litespeeds which are a u.k. 8 2.2mm and as much as I want to pay to break or miss clays 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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