Help - .38 SPL 158 GR Lead Cast FP/Truncated Cone with VIHT N320

[SukhaSD]

I’ve just started reloading and have a few questions:

Firstly being does anyone have load data for Viht N320, in .38 SPL 158GR Lead Cast / Truncated Cone? 

I have found it incredibly hard to find data for this bullet/powder combination.

Currently I have the below:
.38 SPL Case 
158 GR Lead Cast Flat Point / Truncated Cone
4.2 GR Vihtavuori N320

I’ve measured the COA length for the 8 rounds that I have loaded, and they range from 1.4475 inches to 1.4425. 

I’m fine with pulling these bullets, whether I can utilise the powder and bullet again or not. 
Just wanted to make sure before actually firing them, and certainly didn’t want to load anymore than I already have.

[Andy H]

Use any data that uses an 158 grain lead head it does not have to specify a truncated cone a semi wadcutter will do or even round nose , It's all in the weight .

You are well below maximum powder load's for n320  .8 of a grain below for a 158 swc.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=41

[enfieldspares]

From the picture you don't seem to be applying much, if at all any, crimp? Viht 320 is a good powder and I used it in my Smith & Wesson pre-Model 27 .357 Magnum in .38 Special case. But it will need some crimp, even if only a slight to light crimp, to give consistent performance round to round to round. Without knowledge of what you are using it on which might be a s7 Historic Revolver such as a Colt Police Positive, a strong Ruger 77/357 or a lever action carbine of some sort with a steel or even brass frame or other or even a humane dispatch two shot Deringer type arm I'd not be happy with suggesting a load. 

[Andy H]

5 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

From the picture you don't seem to be applying much, if at all any, crimp? Viht 320 is a good powder and I used it in my Smith & Wesson pre-Model 27 .357 Magnum in .38 Special case. But it will need some crimp, even if only a slight to light crimp, to give consistent performance round to round to round. Without knowledge of what you are using it on which might be a s7 Historic Revolver such as a Colt Police Positive, a strong Ruger 77/357 or a lever action carbine of some sort with a steel or even brass frame or other or even a humane dispatch two shot Deringer type arm I'd not be happy with suggesting a load. 

I do agree a bit of crimp would be better especially if used in a tube magazine , You do not want the bullet's being pushed back in to the cases and raising pressure's.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Welcome to Pigeon Watch.

[Windswept]

9 hours ago, SukhaSD said:

I’ve just started reloading and have a few questions:

What questions do you have?

I've loaded and shot many thousand 158gr TCs with Viht N320 without any problems. I used 357 brass, 4.0gr Viht N320 .358" GM 158gr TCs with fed small pistol primers and got a pleasant 950 fps out of a U/L rifle.

There is load data out there, you may need to trawl through some European sites. https://www.wm-bullets.de/nützliches/ladedaten for example lists data for SWC and TC and you will note it is the same. As said I just use data for a certain weight of lead bullet, not shape.

You could also use reloading software such as Gordons reloading tool.

Your OAL is a bit long, that may not matter but it will depend what you are shooting them in. I find TC bullets need the cases trimmed down to get them to crimp in the right place. I give mine a light crimp using a Lee carbide die which also makes sure there are no slight bulges in the case.

[Imperfection]

If you plan on loading them into a lever rifle such as Marlin i would crimp the bullet into the case. The magazine spring will push all the bullets into the cases which isn't good. While the load you're suggesting isn't hot you might still over pressure the firearm if the bullet disappears to bottom of case on top of powder.

If you will be using them in a long barrel revolver you would be fine pressure wise. I put a small crimp on mine when using in my Alpha LBR just to hold the bullet in place. Just means i can get more life out of the cases. Pistol calibre cases are usually not the best of quality due to much lower pressures they have to put up with.

And if you haven't already-get yourself a reloading book -the Lee one is very good and available from Amazon, Ebay or Kranks. Yes it treats you like an idiot with pictures etc but as a newbie you kinda are. I've seen a number of accidents over the years due to negligence with reloading so eliminating/reducing risk is always good. Listening to advice is one thing but dont accept everything as being correct-including mine. 

Me personally, for normal 38 special shooting i use 158gn RNFP hard cast lead bullet, small pistol primer, 3 grains of Ramshot Zip in a 357 case. Its a nice soft load for shooting 25m and the recoil dont knock the fillings out of your gob. I used Bullseye for years but that stuff if terribly dirty. I do cast my own bullets and sit on a lot of lead i must add.

If i want to hike it up to 357 magnum i go 158gn FMJ (full metal jacket) projectile, small pistol primer, 9 grains of Ramshot True Blue in a 357 case. Its an accurate load but the recoil is considerably greater. All my loads have been chronoy'd and within limits i must add.

Generally, i only ever use 357 cases regardless of what load im shooting-same goes for 44 magnum and 44 special. It prevents a carbon ring forming on the forcing cone of the barrel (from shorter rounds of ammunition). To me, 38 sp cases are scrap but i've got thousands of 357 cases and i'll never run out.

[SukhaSD]

Thanks all for the advice thus far. I will definitely look into buying myself a reloading manual ASAP. Aside from the recommended Lee book, are there any other recommendations? For the foreseeable future, all I'll be reloading is .38/.357 Mag, with 6.5 CREEDMOOR coming further down the line.

I'm using the Lee 3 die set, for which the Bullet Seating Die also doubles as the Crimping Die. Will that suffice? I can certainly looki at adjusting the die for a more desired crimp.

The .38 loads will be shot solely out of my Marlin 1894 CST, 16.5" barrel.

My concerns/queries are as below:

 - Have the bullets been seated too far into the case (from the reference pictures)?

 - Is the OAL range of 1.4475 inches to 1.4425 between the rounds from the reference picture too low? What would be an ideal OAL range (Min-Max) to not stray from, for .38 SPL specifically?

 

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated, and as already mentioned I will be looking to get myself a reloading manual very soon.

[Windswept]

10 hours ago, Andy H said:

Use any data that uses an 158 grain lead head it does not have to specify a truncated cone a semi wadcutter will do or even round nose , It's all in the weight .

You are well below maximum powder load's for n320  .8 of a grain below for a 158 swc.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=41

I would use the LSWC data as thats plain lead, the H&N SWC data is for plated bullets I think. So max 3.8gr. But thats pistol data and I wouldn't worry about using 4.2gr in a rifle. I do have old Viht data that lists max 4.6.

[Windswept]

1 hour ago, SukhaSD said:

Thanks all for the advice thus far. I will definitely look into buying myself a reloading manual ASAP. Aside from the recommended Lee book, are there any other recommendations? For the foreseeable future, all I'll be reloading is .38/.357 Mag, with 6.5 CREEDMOOR coming further down the line.

I'm using the Lee 3 die set, for which the Bullet Seating Die also doubles as the Crimping Die. Will that suffice? I can certainly looki at adjusting the die for a more desired crimp.

The .38 loads will be shot solely out of my Marlin 1894 CST, 16.5" barrel.

My concerns/queries are as below:

 - Have the bullets been seated too far into the case (from the reference pictures)?

 - Is the OAL range of 1.4475 inches to 1.4425 between the rounds from the reference picture too low? What would be an ideal OAL range (Min-Max) to not stray from, for .38 SPL specifically?

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated, and as already mentioned I will be looking to get myself a reloading manual very soon.

I assume that's a .38/357? If so you should not have any problem with cartridge length chambering them and I wouldn't worry about shooting those rounds through my Marlin.

Taking a step back, are you shooting at a club? If so isn't there anyone there who can help, it's good to be able to chat to other people shooting the same sort of things. Most people I know will only shoot .357 rounds through a 357/38 gun to stop the sooty ring that can form when shooting 38s in a longer 357 chamber. The downside of that is you tend to have to use 38 data.

As I mentioned, TC bullets in the UK seem to have a crimp grove that will always produce a round that's too long unless you trim the cases back a few thou. This is where it's useful to speak to people running the same sort of loads as you can cross reference your loads with them. I dont run max or min loads so don't worry about the slight difference in case capacity and if I did I'd run the loads through reloading software.

The Lee seating die will crimp your cases ok but I prefer to seat then crimp with the carbide die.

[Newbie to this]

I use the Lee factory crimp die, it came with the carbide 4 die set, but can be purchased separately.