Obsolete 10 bore ?

[islandgun]

Finally took possession of my old single Tolley ten bore, a thing of great beauty. noticed the chamber size is 3 1/4 ". Is it a considered obsolete ?

 

[holloway]

I believe if you cant buy shop bought ammo its obsolete, therefore same as 2 7/8 inch 10 ga but not 3 1/2 10 as we all know.   

[RCB56]

You can still purchase 3" 10 bore cartridges, so the answer is NO if the question is regarding a 10 bore gun being a obsolete calibre/gauge. It's the calibre/gauge that denotes its if it's obsolete not the chamber Length.

Edited July 15, 2024 by RCB56

[Pushandpull]

The last time I looked, only 2 5/8" and 2 7/8" 10 bore were listed as obsolete. This means that they may be held as a "curiosity or ornament". However, if you use such a piece, (by making suitable cartridges) then it must be added to your SGC.

[Old farrier]

Just to add to this confusion 

my 2.7/8 10 bore obsolete calibre 

sent it off for re proof it passed inspection and proof for nitro and was re stamped 3 inch so no longer a obsolete caliber 

so your tolly at 3.14 probably won’t be classed as obsolete caliber 

 

[Pushandpull]

Just by the way, there are a few pre-war English 10 bores built with 3 1/2" chambers. Scarce.

[islandgun]

Thanks for the replies everyone, the gun will be used, as reloading, I thought that if no commercially available ammo then it was considered obsolete

[RCB56]

You've just answered your own question by saying that you are going to use it, so a definite NO, it is not an obsolete calibre. Even a gun with no ammunition available that you use by reloading has to be held on the appropriate license.

[holloway]

3 hours ago, RCB56 said:

You can still purchase 3" 10 bore cartridges, so the answer is NO if the question is regarding a 10 bore gun being a obsolete calibre/gauge. It's the calibre/gauge that denotes its if it's obsolete not the chamber Length.

3 hours ago, RCB56 said:

You can still purchase 3" 10 bore cartridges, so the answer is NO if the question is regarding a 10 bore gun being a obsolete calibre/gauge. It's the calibre/gauge that denotes its if it's obsolete not the chamber Length.

I have just checked and for a 10 bore 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 chambers are considered obsolete, your 3 1/4 is certainly not standard and would be considered obsolete also  as probably would a 3 inch 10 gauge something i have never heard of ? all modern tens as we all know are 3 1/2  ,i would be interested to see a link to the retailer who sells these cartridges as it has never been a standard size .

If you want to load your own and shoot it ,by law it should be added to your shotgun certificate if  not you can keep it off ticket .

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Just to add to this confusion 

my 2.7/8 10 bore obsolete calibre 

sent it off for re proof it passed inspection and proof for nitro and was re stamped 3 inch so no longer a obsolete caliber 

so your tolly at 3.14 probably won’t be classed as obsolete caliber 

 

I had the same thing happen with a Scott 10 ga ,i measured the chamber and then contacted them to tell them that they had made a mistake with the stamp mark , i sent it back and they corrected it after putting a big ugly X through the  original mark 🙁

[Pushandpull]

In the Lonsdale Library Wildfowling volume, T.Clifford Bland has a little discussion on 10-bore cartridges. He refers to having built guns in both 3" and 3!/4", as well as 3 1/2". He also mentions lengthening the chambers of other tens where the gun is robust enough. The book was published in 1950, but I assume he was writing of the pre-war years. If Blands were building these guns then I think we can assume that cartridges were being made for them. There are a lot of odd things out there such as the 3" 16 bore. Only ever seen one, a Greener, and I have owned a 3" Alphamax cartridge at one time - blue of course.

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

In the Lonsdale Library Wildfowling volume, T.Clifford Bland has a little discussion on 10-bore cartridges. He refers to having built guns in both 3" and 3!/4", as well as 3 1/2". He also mentions lengthening the chambers of other tens where the gun is robust enough. The book was published in 1950, but I assume he was writing of the pre-war years. If Blands were building these guns then I think we can assume that cartridges were being made for them. There are a lot of odd things out there such as the 3" 16 bore. Only ever seen one, a Greener, and I have owned a 3" Alphamax cartridge at one time - blue of course.

Rosson did a 3 1/4 inch 12 gauge for wildfowling as well another oddity 👍

[islandgun]

3 hours ago, RCB56 said:

You've just answered your own question by saying that you are going to use it, so a definite NO, it is not an obsolete calibre. Even a gun with no ammunition available that you use by reloading has to be held on the appropriate license.

 Absolutely correct, I just wondered for the sake of argument or future reference. Next question has anyone got a 3 1/4" ten bore bismuth recipe they would share..😁

[holloway]

16 minutes ago, islandgun said:

 Absolutely correct, I just wondered for the sake of argument or future reference. Next question has anyone got a 3 1/4" ten bore bismuth recipe they would share..😁

Good luck with that one 😀

[harkom]

17 hours ago, holloway said:

I had the same thing happen with a Scott 10 ga ,i measured the chamber and then contacted them to tell them that they had made a mistake with the stamp mark , i sent it back and they corrected it after putting a big ugly X through the  original mark 🙁

Which Proof House did that?

[holloway]

2 hours ago, harkom said:

Which Proof House did that?

Birmingham .

 

[harkom]

8 hours ago, holloway said:

Birmingham .

 

hmmm?... no surprise there then. I think that the owner who submits to proof house should give Written Instructions on the desired proof test -  the chamber length (actual), BP or NP and shot load. Otherwise you get what...ever....

[holloway]

1 hour ago, harkom said:

hmmm?... no surprise there then. I think that the owner who submits to proof house should give Written Instructions on the desired proof test -  the chamber length (actual), BP or NP and shot load. Otherwise you get what...ever....

I did wonder what level of proof or size of charge they had used if they didn't accurately know what chamber length the gun was in the first place.

 

 

 

[Fil]

18 hours ago, harkom said:

hmmm?... no surprise there then. I think that the owner who submits to proof house should give Written Instructions on the desired proof test -  the chamber length (actual), BP or NP and shot load. Otherwise you get what...ever....

You have to nowadays or they won't proof them. 

[Fil]

16 hours ago, holloway said:

I did wonder what level of proof or size of charge they had used if they didn't accurately know what chamber length the gun was in the first place.

 

 

 

I once submitted a Ford "chamberless" 12 bore for re proof. The bore was basically the size of the chamber. Something they tried way back then. 

As it had no chamber "bottom" the gauge just dissappeared so the gun had to be proofed to the maximum chamber and cartridge load of that time. 😱

Luckily the 3 1/2" was around then so it was proofed for 3" magnum. Therefore it could safely fire anything. It passed. 

Regarding this gun I suspect they made a proof load to suit. Back in the day they had "menu" proofing. But not anymore. 

On 15/07/2024 at 12:31, holloway said:

I believe if you cant buy shop bought ammo its obsolete, therefore same as 2 7/8 inch 10 ga but not 3 1/2 10 as we all know.   

No mate. If it's not on the Home Office list it is not obsolete regardless of it's length and 3 1/4" is not on the list. 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Fil said:

I once submitted a Ford "chamberless" 12 bore for re proof. The bore was basically the size of the chamber. Something they tried way back then. 

As it had no chamber "bottom" the gauge just dissappeared so the gun had to be proofed to the maximum chamber and cartridge load of that time. 😱

Luckily the 3 1/2" was around then so it was proofed for 3" magnum. Therefore it could safely fire anything. It passed. 

Regarding this gun I suspect they made a proof load to suit. Back in the day they had "menu" proofing. But not anymore. 

No mate. If it's not on the Home Office list it is not obsolete regardless of it's length and 3 1/4" is not on the list. 

Interesting ,thanks for that.