Trump and Zelensky Oval Office meeting

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Trump is loved over here, I feel like you media has lied to you.  Bush was not loved but voted for, Obama was not loved but voted for, but Trump is loved. 

Zelenskyy biggest problem is his controls a former combloc countries where corruption was normal part of business.  evEryone skims off the top.  

Trump is loved here too by a very large number of people, despite taking a dent with his recent behaviour towards Zelensky, I'm probably safe in saying he is far better liked than our own Prime minister. 

I was very greatful to Vance for bringing up the aparant assault on our freedom of speech. 

I agree with you regarding Ukraines corruption. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

Wait for it Holloway, I’m sure our American friend can find a brain washing snippet for that too.

I bet he has a snippet somewhere that proves Iraq had hidden weapons of mass destruction!

 

NoBodyImportant - whether you agree with him or not, he has provided details to back his view. You are merely sniping at him.

By the way, the USA went into Iraq hand in hand with the UK. Neither country comes out of it well.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I have a question I would like to ask you all.  
Pretend it’s 2014-2018

The facts: Ukraine has a population that is 29% only Russian speaking. Mostly in Donetsk and Luhansk

Sense the current regime took power they

Banned opposition political parties that 95% of the Russian speaking population voted for.

Banned Russia language on the radio and TV. 

Outlawed new papers translating in Russian

Banned Russian language in churches

banned Russian language in education and all government institutions 

Banned households from having more than 10 Russian language books.  
 

the Ukrainian constitution says they must provide services, education and respect any minorities over 10%. The Ukrainian constitution also says any province can gain independence with a 3/4 vote.  Donetsk and Luhansk voted 95-97% in favor of independence.  
 

This question has nothing to do with the Russian invasion, I legitimately want to know your opinion on this one subject.  so my question is this:

 Was the Ukrainian government in the right for liquidating these people?  
 

 

 

No absolutely not. 

But 2 wrongs don't make a right and starting a war that has destroyed over 1 million lives is not the correct response. 

[39TDS]

During the Covid days folk swallowed hook line and sinker everything they were told, most of which turned out to be completely false and often very manipulative.

A fair few of the recent comments on this thread have shown exactly the same mindset. It's very easy to fall for the line given to you but there isn't anything apart from yourselves that stops you looking into it all for yourself and coming to your own reasoned conclusion. Have a go at that rather than just swallowing the often false information fed to you.

I often fall for the same stuff myself but try to look at all angles and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Tbh I don't think USA (particularly Biden but Trump too), Zelensky or Europe are looking particularly angelic or even decent in all of this.

I have friends in both Russia and Ukraine and their versions are quite different than the picture our media paints for us. Don't forget that the media give you the version their owners decide they want you to hear (whichever media) and when have any of them been considered to be factual and accurate?

ps. I have enjoyed reading the views on the thread and in particular NBI's viewpoint and contributions, I have to say my opinions have changed from reading through it all.

Edited 5 hours ago by 39TDS
to add the ps

[NoBodyImportant]

42 minutes ago, holloway said:

Have we any verified figures on funds that the states have committed to Ukraine ? or are we going on figures that Trump has confirmed ? if so ……..well we know it might be inaccurate as it has been proved he couldn't lie straight in bed ,i put Putin and Trump neck and neck for false information .

 

The last 8 years has been media telling me Trump was lying only to find out later he was right.  

Edited 5 hours ago by NoBodyImportant

[NoBodyImportant]

31 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

No absolutely not. 

But 2 wrongs don't make a right and starting a war that has destroyed over 1 million lives is not the correct response. 

Who started the war?  Remember the war started years before Russia got involved.

[NoBodyImportant]

50 minutes ago, steve1066 said:

 

I bet he has a snippet somewhere that proves Iraq had hidden weapons of mass destruction!
 

 

I can’t go into much detail on this subject on this.  But I will say America wasn’t looking for chemical weapons. America knew exactly where they were.  My close companions  said the at the start of the invasion they had map to their locations.  They knew exactly how many trucks to bring to remove them.   But it was very secretive because if the weapons were secured we wouldn’t have a reason to be in Iraq.  More than a few servicemen told me this exact story.  They were not allowed to discuss it. Some leaks have come out but the official narrative is we spend 10 years looking for the weapons we secured ls in 48 hours.  

Edited 5 hours ago by NoBodyImportant

[12gauge82]

54 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Who started the war?  Remember the war started years before Russia got involved.

The country that crossed the others border with weapons. 

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

The country that crossed the others border with weapons. 

So when Donetsk and Luhansk was invaded by Ukrainian forces? 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

So when Donetsk and Luhansk was invaded by Ukrainian forces? 

No the conflict in those areas started in 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea and pro Russian separatists declared independence from Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which led to conflict between Ukraine and the separative groups who were being propped up by Russia.