MrUniverse Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hello Gents, A freind of mine has just been granted his shotgun certificate and will soon be buying his first O/U. Now, i admitted that i am a complete novice at choosing guns, what to look for etc etc and so i mentioned to him that i would consult members of the pigeon watch forums. He wants a good, reliable gun and and has no preference if it is new or second hand. It will be used for both Clay and Game and said that he wants the gun to be compatible with 3'' Magnums (fox control, geese etc). The budget he has insisted on is no more than £750. Any ideas??? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 From personal experience I would go for either a second hand 30" Miroku MK70 multi-choke, or second hand Beretta Silver Pigeon but a decent one might be a bit outwith the budget at £750. Look on www.guntrader.co.uk and see what's within the budget, then get along to a gun dealer based on a clay ground so you can try different manufacturer's guns to see what you prefer and what fits (ideally get an hours coaching with three or four used guns to try, the coach will tell you what fits if you're not sure). Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 From personal experience I would go for either a second hand 30" Miroku MK70 multi-choke, or second hand Beretta Silver Pigeon but a decent one might be a bit outwith the budget at £750. Look on www.guntrader.co.uk and see what's within the budget, then get along to a gun dealer based on a clay ground so you can try different manufacturer's guns to see what you prefer and what fits (ideally get an hours coaching with three or four used guns to try, the coach will tell you what fits if you're not sure). Good luck. Very good advice but drop the beretta sliver pigeon bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 From personal experience I would go for either a second hand 30" Miroku MK70 multi-choke, or second hand Beretta Silver Pigeon but a decent one might be a bit outwith the budget at £750. Look on www.guntrader.co.uk and see what's within the budget, then get along to a gun dealer based on a clay ground so you can try different manufacturer's guns to see what you prefer and what fits (ideally get an hours coaching with three or four used guns to try, the coach will tell you what fits if you're not sure). Good luck. Thanks Wgd, ive read some good reviews on the Lanber Sporting and the Franchi Harrier, although i am lead to beleive that the Lanber can fire magnums and the franchi can't. you can pick them up for around £700 new. Have you any experience with these two guns? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Get a Miroku MK70. No finer gun for that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Get a Miroku MK70. No finer gun for that money. Very good advice, you are liable to encounter all sorts of build quality problems with Lanbers and Franchi's that you just won't get with a Miroku, also they hold their price better and are easier to sell on. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazkb Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 **** there is nothing wrong with lanbers and a nother make to consider are bettinsoli spend £350 - £450 s/h on one and you won't go far wrong and most of all don't get caught up in all that gun snobery, nothing wrong with miroku, browning etc but you do pay for the name to a degree so generally not allways the bargain they may seem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) **** there is nothing wrong with lanbers and a nother make to consider are bettinsolispend £350 - £450 s/h on one and you won't go far wrong and most of all don't get caught up in all that gun snobery, nothing wrong with miroku, browning etc but you do pay for the name to a degree so generally not allways the bargain they may seem The Beretta or Miroku/Browning will be a better gun. That's like saying don't waste your money on a Bentley because you're paying for the name, just buy a Lada and it will do the job just as well Edited January 21, 2008 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 **** there is nothing wrong with lanbers and a nother make to consider are bettinsolispend £350 - £450 s/h on one and you won't go far wrong and most of all don't get caught up in all that gun snobery, nothing wrong with miroku, browning etc but you do pay for the name to a degree so generally not allways the bargain they may seem I'm afraid I wouldn't advise anybody new to shooting to buy a Lanber or Betty as they will soon be looking to sell it on when they realise they've bought a "budget" gun with a low resale value and poor build quality, they're certainly not suitable for anybody who intends to be serious about the sport. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamC Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I am pretty inexperienced, but for that money I would go for something second hand from Berretta, Browning or Miroku. You may struggle with the budget to get a Beretta, but it is possible. Sure my FEO told me he bought a Silver Pig for £750. Was a private sale, but get your mate to a gun shop with a shoot and test some guns out. If it turns out the Beretta suites him better then you can always try and find something private, but of course you won't have that dealer backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgit Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm new to this game and would not pretend to know as much as some on here concerning the reliablity or better or worse build quality between the better guns, But. I bought the Beretta 686S Sporter because its lighter than the Browning and Miroku. After holding the Browning and Miroku, I found them big and heavy and wide for me, and when I picked up the Beretta it felt great straight away. So, if he's a big Lad he may be able to handle a big heavy gun. Read this!! The world's 20 best shotguns (extract) Beretta 68 series over-and-under Beretta makes some of the most popular game- and competition guns in the world (with its production of over-and-unders exceeding 50,000 per annum). The 68 series guns are famously reliable and made, even in cheaper grades, from first-class materials; Beretta is one of the few manufacturers to maintain a sophisticated metallurgical laboratory on site and pays a great deal of attention to production consistency. All 68 series guns have bifurcated lumps, stud-pins at the knuckle and are locked by conical bolts that emerge from the breech face as the gun is closed and set in small round sockets either side of the top chamber mouth. This system is an especially clever feature of the design and, like the hinge-pins, may be replaced by over-size parts to allow for wear. The guns also have shoulder pieces on the barrels (replaceable in some competition models) which set in corresponding recesses in the top rear of the action wall. Beretta 68 series guns in 12- and 20-bore are among the most popular game-guns in Britain, with good reason. Recent models are available with improved stock shapes and a chemically achieved decorative effect mimicking traditional colour case-hardening. My favourite game model, however, is the side-plated EELL in 20- or 28-bore. It's a gun that will not disgrace itself in any company and costs under £4,115, a great deal of gun for the money. However, the plainer Silver Pigeons in 12- or 20-bore at around £1,500 are probably the best buys of all. Let me dare to ask one final question. What is the best gun in the world? I shall fudge the answer by putting it in the context of price. If I had up to £1,500 to spend my choice would be a plain grade Beretta Silver Pigeon 12- or 20-bore. If I had between £3,000 and £4,000 to spend, I'd buy a Beretta EELL or side-plated Caesar Guerini. With £5,000 or so in the bank, I would opt for a Perazzi or Kemen (the latter being an exceptional high-bird gun as noted). Remanufactured vintage guns from Atkin, Grant & Lang represent excellent value and allow for the confident everyday use of a hundred-year-old gun built to your exact requirements. Bosis side-by-sides also represent excellent value when one begins to consider capital expenditure. With unlimited funds, I would go for a new Holland Royal side-by-side or over-and-under in 12- and 20-bore respectively, or a Purdey pigeon-gun. If I were Italian, though, it might well have been a Fabbri. One gun on a desert island for the next 20 years? To use the vernacular, that's a no-brainer: the plain Jane Beretta Silver Pigeon simply could not be bettered. It offers the most reliable bang for the least buck. I would have a 28in-barrelled 20-bore if cartridges were available (because the handling qualities mimic those of a much more expensive gun), or a 12-bore if they were not. To read the whole article read this......http://www.thefield.co.uk/features/153911/The_world039s_20_best_shotguns.html Admittedly I am biased as I have the 68 series and it does everything and is light. Cost in a shop £600!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Lads, I posted more or less the same question on a different forum and had the same instant reult - ''Get yourslef a miroku''. and an MK70 was reccommended (as you can see from the first reply) After much debate, i seem to have been biten by the Miroku bug and have now gone on a wild goose chase to firstly; find an MK70 and secondly; to have it fit my budget. Ive roughly got £800 to spend... i have seen a few knocking around but ehre 150+ mile away! I checked the MK70 upon the SportingGun review website and the scores are as follow: HANDLING= 7 out of 10: BUILD QUALITY = 8 out of 10: STYLING = 7 out of 10: VALUE FOR MONEY = 7 out of 10. However, as many of you will rehearse, dont judge a gun by its stats.......judge the gun on how it feels! Agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazkb Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'm afraid I wouldn't advise anybody new to shooting to buy a Lanber or Betty as they will soon be looking to sell it on when they realise they've bought a "budget" gun with a low resale value and poor build quality, they're certainly not suitable for anybody who intends to be serious about the sport. gun snobery at it's best and total rubbish to boot buying a s/h lanber or betty you will loose very little as the price drop is neglible once s/h i looked for ever when i started for a "big name " gun but what i found was rubbish for the same moeny i got a mint betty it shoot's great and i shoot as well with that as i did with my beretta which i have since sold as i didn't get on with it i'm not saying that big name guns aren't good but they are overpriced for what they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Lads, I posted more or less the same question on a different forum and had the same instant reult - ''Get yourslef a miroku''. and an MK70 was reccommended (as you can see from the first reply) After much debate, i seem to have been biten by the Miroku bug and have now gone on a wild goose chase to firstly; find an MK70 and secondly; to have it fit my budget. Ive roughly got £800 to spend... i have seen a few knocking around but ehre 150+ mile away! I checked the MK70 upon the SportingGun review website and the scores are as follow: HANDLING= 7 out of 10: BUILD QUALITY = 8 out of 10: STYLING = 7 out of 10: VALUE FOR MONEY = 7 out of 10. However, as many of you will rehearse, dont judge a gun by its stats.......judge the gun on how it feels! Agree? MrU I read your other post re MK70 Wanted; I would refer you back to what I said in my initial post on this thread - not that I am any kind of expert - but you should really try before you buy. Of the three guys I shoot with regularly, we all had pretty much the same criteria when buying guns but the end result.... I have a Beretta Silver Pig, another has a Miroku MK70 and another has a Browning but I can't remember which model. To me, the Miroku and Browning feel similar but the Beretta is totally different and much preferred by me, whereas my mates prefer their own guns and don't like the feel of mine. As you have said, it's what feels right for you, so before you blow your entire budget on something 1) you only want to buy once and 2) you want to be sure is the best gun for you GO AND TRY THEM OUT! Cheers WGD Edited January 22, 2008 by wgd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Lads, I posted more or less the same question on a different forum and had the same instant reult - ''Get yourslef a miroku''. and an MK70 was reccommended (as you can see from the first reply) After much debate, i seem to have been biten by the Miroku bug and have now gone on a wild goose chase to firstly; find an MK70 and secondly; to have it fit my budget. Ive roughly got £800 to spend... i have seen a few knocking around but ehre 150+ mile away! I checked the MK70 upon the SportingGun review website and the scores are as follow: HANDLING= 7 out of 10: BUILD QUALITY = 8 out of 10: STYLING = 7 out of 10: VALUE FOR MONEY = 7 out of 10. However, as many of you will rehearse, dont judge a gun by its stats.......judge the gun on how it feels! Agree? MrU I read your other post re MK70 Wanted; I would refer you back to what I said in my initial post on this thread - not that I am any kind of expert - but you should really try before you buy. Of the three guys I shoot with regularly, we all had pretty much the same criteria when buying guns but the end result.... I have a Beretta Silver Pig, another has a Miroku MK70 and another has a Browning but I can't remember which model. To me, the Miroku and Browning feel similar but the Beretta is totally different and much preferred by me, whereas my mates prefer their own guns and don't like the feel of mine. As you have said, it's what feels right for you, so before you blow your entire budget on something 1) you only want to buy once and 2) you want to be sure is the best gun for you GO AND TRY THEM OUT! Cheers WGD Cheers for that, Im going to a gunshop after work this aft to see if they have any instock as to actually see it face to face compared to blurred photos on the net.... ill elt you know my developments. Any other info is apprecaited. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby22 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 You could have a look at the "Winchester select" range, new-they are 950, but are built by browning so are quality and have 3" chamber?? an they seem to fit quite well, just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'm afraid I wouldn't advise anybody new to shooting to buy a Lanber or Betty as they will soon be looking to sell it on when they realise they've bought a "budget" gun with a low resale value and poor build quality, they're certainly not suitable for anybody who intends to be serious about the sport. gun snobery at it's best and total rubbish to boot buying a s/h lanber or betty you will loose very little as the price drop is neglible once s/h i looked for ever when i started for a "big name " gun but what i found was rubbish for the same moeny i got a mint betty it shoot's great and i shoot as well with that as i did with my beretta which i have since sold as i didn't get on with it i'm not saying that big name guns aren't good but they are overpriced for what they are It's a pity you have to resort to calling other peoples posts "****" and "rubbish", you obviously consider yourself a real expert, however everybody is entitled to their opinion, me included. I don't know what you mean by "snobery", I have owned both a Lanber and many Berettas over the years, and Berettas are without doubt more suitable for serious shooting than a Lanber or a Betty. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) A question for everyone here: Scenario: You want a gun. But not just any gun but a good quality, reliable one. Its a gun your investing in, your going to keep it for life and will never sell it. It will be used for every discipline and it will be used regularly. The gun will endure snow, rain, wind, mud, zero degrees etc Question: Which one do you buy (please include Model if applicable) Please take into consideration the following: Budget: £1000 Bore: 12 The gun must be based on personal experience, one which you or anyone else has had great sucess with. Im looking forward to the response Cheers Anthony Edited January 22, 2008 by MrUniverse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platinumsausge Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 personaly i think taht he shud get an zoli because they are a good first gun to get they fit nicely and they are an aal round good gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUniverse Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 You could have a look at the "Winchester select" range, new-they are 950, but are built by browning so are quality and have 3" chamber?? an they seem to fit quite well, just a thought. Yeh ive been browsing at them....quite impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Having had lessons when I first started (shooting regularly) at one of the top shooting grounds in the country they only ever use 12 or 20 MK60's and if needed a semi 20g. When anyone picks up my MK70 and has a shot they say it comes up well and shoots fine. If you go to a beretta (and I shoot with people who have from DT10, EELL SP3, SP1 and that funny one with the chokes on the outside O/U) they seem to be a specialist fit especially with the comb and cast and people seem to adapt to the gun rather than be comfortable with it. Mr U stick to your original plan, you will not regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I have a silver pig, 28" multi-choke, great gun, love it to bits, if one fits you, thats where i would spend my cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) A question for everyone here: Scenario: You want a gun. But not just any gun but a good quality, reliable one. Its a gun your investing in, your going to keep it for life and will never sell it. It will be used for every discipline and it will be used regularly. The gun will endure snow, rain, wind, mud, zero degrees etc Question: Which one do you buy (please include Model if applicable) Please take into consideration the following: Budget: £1000 Bore: 12 The gun must be based on personal experience, one which you or anyone else has had great sucess with. Im looking forward to the response Cheers Anthony OK - almost identical criteria I had when buying my gun and settled for my Beretta Silver Pigeon IV, 30" barrels with multi-chokes and one of the nicest stocks I've seen for a long time but that's not important to a lot of people including me but it was an added bonus, the gun was second hand but barely used and I paid £1150. IMO, I don't necessarily agree with markm's comments re Beretta's and people adapting to the gun - I would argue that you will adapt to whatever you buy to do the best you can with it, and you will adapt to it as you are the one shooting it all the time and you know what you see when you break a clay or drop a bird so the more site patterns you obtain with your gun, the better shot you become with it. Each to their own. WGD Edited January 22, 2008 by wgd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Mr U, stick with a Miroku MK70. If anyone knows his onions when it comes to shotguns on here it's probably Catamong. I don't profess to have his degree of experience, but I do shoot clays and/or game almost every day and have done for many years. I almost always use a Browning or a Miroku, irrespective of the weather and the quarry/discipline. I have other shotguns, but few are as versatile or satisfyingly robust as the MK70. There's a lot of sense in the oft-quoted phrase "what's good ain't cheap and what's cheap ain't good". As you have the cash, go straight for a Miroku. It'll stand up to all manner of abuse, and last you a long while. And if you choose to sell it, you'll have no problems finding a willing buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 you'll have no problems finding a willing buyer. Back to your original post about how you were having problems finding one. Guess why there are not many S/H ones on the shelves!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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