DO BIRDS OF PREY NEED CULLING

[Jim Sarakun]

I WAS SITTING IN MY GARDEN ON SUNDAY MORNING, IN SUBURBIA, WATCHING THE SPARROWS AND STARLINGS SQUABBLING OVER THE FEED I PUT OUT, WHEN SWISH BOSH, CLOUD OF FEATHERS, A HAWK TOOK ONE IN MID AIR, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. THE BLIGHTER THEN FLEW INTO THE TREES AT THE BOTTOM OF MY GARDEN, AND PROCEEDED TO RIP IT'S HEAD OFF. THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I HAVE WITNESSED THIS IN 8 MONTHS.

 

11 YEARS AGO, WHEN I MOVED IN, I WAS USING 3 BAGS OF PEANUTS AND 3 BAGS OF WILD BIRD FEED, THE BIG SACKS THIS IS, FROM WHEN THE CLOCKS GO BACK TO ABOUT JUNE. I NOW USE 1 OF EACH. THE BIRDS ARE JUST NOT AROUND IN THE VOLUME OF YESTERYEAR. OUT IN THE COUNTRY I NO LONGER SEE THOSE FLOCKS OF SPARROWS OR STARLINGS, THOUGH DO SEE PLENTY OF HAWKS, AND THEY EVEN TRY TO EAT MY DECOYS.

 

OUT AND ABOUT ON THE ROADS, THERE IS A HAWK ABOUT EVERY HALF A MILE, JUST LOOK AND TAKE NOTE. ALSO BIG BIRDS OF PREY ON MY SHOOT, WHICH I HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED YET.

 

EVERY SPECIES YOU CAN IMAGINE USED TO VISIT MY BIRD TABLE, NOW THERE ARE JUST A HAND FULL OF SPARROWS AND STARLINGS, 30 RINGED DOVES I HAVE COUNTED AND A PAIR OF WOODIES, AND A FEW HAWKS LURKING IN THE HEDGEROW. MY NEIGHBOURS TOO HAVE ALSO NOTICED THE DECLINE IN SONG BIRDS, AND THE RISE IN HAWKS. ARE THEY STILL ALL PROTECTED AS I AM SORELY TEMPTED TO TAKE THEM OUT?

[tulkyuk]

What ever you do, do not shoot/trap/whatever with the Hawks - or you will be wearing a nice pair of silver bracelets

Edited January 29, 2008 by tulkyuk

[Mungler]

You will find that cats, squirrels, magpies and loss of habitat are more likely to be responsible for the decline in the song bird population.

 

You can do something about squirrels and magpies but that's about it.

[anser2]

Jim the simple answer is in no way should birds of prey be culled. To see a kestrel hover in the wind before taking a vole , or a pergrine strike down a grouse or as happened to me the other week see a sparrowhawk take a dead feral pigeon from my decoy patten is one of the magic sights of nature which remains in my mind far longer than any shot I have taken.

 

Get any ecology book and you will soon understand that it the number of prey species that determines the number of prey , not the other way around. In short about 10% of the sunlight energy gets fixed in plant tissues. 10% of that passes onto plant feeders and 10% of the plant feeders energy get passed along the food chain to predators. That works out at 0.1% of the original energy that the plant fixes in its leaf tissues is fixed in the predators body. This is why there are fewer hawks are fewer in number than sparrows.

 

 

The reasons for the decline of many of our small birds is complex , but the main reason is lack of food in some stage of their breeding cycle. This can be winter seeds or the insects needed for raising good broods. In the case of sparrows a major factor is the lack of nest sites. One of my students did a survey of sparrow nests in his village and he found every one was in pre 1950s pan tile style roofs. Not a single nest was in modern style tiles as the sparrows cannot easily get into them. Another thing , a lot of us use fibre glass insulation in our lofts. As anyone who has handled this stuff it makes your skin itch and come up in a rash. Just think what effect that would have on naked chicks nesting in it.

 

Sparrows need seed food in winter , insects for their chicks and nesting sites. If there is a decline in any of these 3 factors the population is going to decline. True hawks will take a percentage of the remaining sparrows. But its not the over riding factor.

 

There was a survey done in Wytham Woods on the number of breeding song birds starting in the 1940s when there were plenty of sparrowhawks through the 1950s when the hawks were absent following DDT poisoning and up to the present day when the sparrowhawk has returned and they found while there was some change in species ( ie fewer starlings ) overall there had been no long term change in the numbers of breeding song birds when the hawks were present or absent.

 

Many species of hawks were posioned in the DDT days of the 1950s , yes we are seeing more about today, but they are just returning to the population levels we should have. Of course from a shooting position many are not happy as some species of hawks will take game birds , but the damage is mainly because man is artificialy increasing the population of game birds far beyond the natural levels the land would normaly carry. So yes hawks will take a few sparrows , but its other factors that are affecting the numbers.

Edited January 29, 2008 by anser2

[tealer]

Tertiary consumers predation on secondary consumers varies during predator and prey oscillations within all ecosystems, however coupled oscillations occur when one prey species: competes for food with other prey for the same recourse and successfully co-existing.

'Vandermeer said. "But oscillations sometimes destroy that equilibrium. What I'm suggesting is that we ecologists need to acknowledge the inherent oscillation in consumer-resource systems, such as predator-prey, herbivore-plant and parasite-host systems, and start approaching these old ecological issues in terms of coupled oscillators."

Although it is in my own opinion unnatural multiple osculations can and do occur when an ecosystem is altered i.e a bird table, this presents multiple prey species to the predator in a unnatural condensed fashion with short term benefits to the predator and unknown long term effects for the prey. When this is also coupled with Modern Building Techniques (nest sites) and Farming Techniques (feeding) could send otherwise balanced ecosystems into chaos.

I hope not but to alter it even further by killing the predator in this case i feel would only confuse the outcome even further.

Edited January 29, 2008 by tealer

[throdgrain]

OMG IT RIPPED ITS HEAD OFF !!

 

Mate thats how it eats, it doesnt have access to a knife and fork unfortunately. As has been said, cats and other pets account for a far far greater amount of blackbirds and sparrows than the poor old kestrel ever could. You just leave them kestrels alone

 

Have you got a cat by the way?

[Jim Sarakun]

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE, WHICH I WILL TAKE ON BOARD. THOUGH SADDENED TO SEE THE DECLINE IN MY GARDEN AND ELSEWHERE, OF ALL THE SMALL BIRDS WE HAVE ALL I'M SURE, WATCHED AND ENJOYED WHILST IN OUR HIDES AND GARDENS, I WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY ACTION AGAINST BIRDS OF PREY.

 

TO throdgrain I HAVE TO SAY, I AM AWARE HOW THE THINGS EAT, THOUGH WOULD GLADLY PROVIDE A KNIFE AND FORK TO CIVILISE THE BIRD A LITTLE AND IMPROVE ITS TABLE MANNERS. I DO NOT HAVE A CAT, LOVE THEM, BUT PREFER AND ENJOY MUCH MORE, A BIRD TABLE. BEING AWARE OF THE DECLINE IN SMALL BIRDS, AND SINCE I MOVED HERE, I HAVE DECLARED WAR ON CATS, AS I USED TO WATCH THEM IN THE EARLY DAYS, TAKING THE BIRDS IN MY GARDEN. I HAVE NEARLY EVERY HUMANE CAT DETTERENT INSTALLED, THOUGH STILL FIND THE ODD PUDDLE OF FEATHERS ON THE LAWN.

 

IN FRUSTRATION I BOUGHT HOME A RABBIT TRAP, TO LACE WITH FISH, WITH THE IDEA OF CATCHING THE CULPRITS, (I HAVE COUNTED 15 DIFFERENT TERRORISTS), BANGING THEM UP IN MY GARAGE, AND POSTING AN EAR WITH A RANSOM NOTE TO THEIR OWNERS. MY COP SHOOTING BUDDY EXPLAINED A SMALL DETAIL IN THE LAW ABOUT "UNECESSARY HARM", SO IT'S THE WATER PISTOL THEN.

 

TO anser2, WHEN I HAD THE SOFFET AND FACIA BOARDS RENEWED WITH PLASTIC, I HAD THEM MADE BIRD FRIENDLY, WHICH I WONT GO INTO HERE, AND CAN NOW BOAST OF STARLINGS AND SPARROWS INHABITING THEM. PROBABLY THE DOWN SIDE BEING THE HAWKS. I TOO HAVE WATCHED AND ENJOYED THEM anser2, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST, VERY INTERESTING.

 

THANK YOU TOO Mungler, SQUIRRELS AND MAGPIES HAVE FOR A LONG TIME BEEN AT THE TOP OF MY LIST.

 

SILVER BRACELETS ARE NOT ON MY WISH LIST tulkyuck. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE

 

YES tealer, I TOO AGREE THAT UNNATURAL MULTIPLE OSCULATIONS ARE OCCURING ALL AROUND US, AND PROBABLY NOT SO IN A CONDENSED FASHION ie; A BIRD TABLE. I DO HOWEVER FEEL THAT THESE NOW UNBALANCED ECOSYSTEMS WILL IN FACT, DARE I SAY, CATCH UP, AND FIND A NEW BALANCE, ALBEIT WITH THE LOSS OF SOME SPECIES, THOUGH IN TIME BENEFICIAL TO OTHERWISE UNHEARD OF, AND EVEN NEW SPECIES IN THE FUTURE.

 

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR POSTS....I HAVE LEARNT A GREAT DEAL TODAY....JIM...

[BSA Shaun]

I see that you have taken on board the comments posted and this is commendible.

 

I would like to add that if you enjoy watching the songbirds in your garden then try occassionally to get to places that birds of prey of different varieties also inhabit. I can tell you that any one of them is a pleasure to observe, I particularly love to watch a family of buzzards circling over my house.

 

For your identification I would suggest that the bird that has taken your sparrows is indeed a sparrow hawk:

 

 

I would also suggest that the ones you mention hanging around on your shoot are common Buzzards:

 

 

As for along roadways and motorways, I would suggest the Kestrel:

 

 

A five minute trawl on wikipedia or alike will give you a better insight into the lives and habits of these birds, it really is worth while.

 

And if you hang around your shoot at night you might even see one of these 2:

 

 

 

[WeihrauchPower]

First of all, What's with the CAPS! And why are Tulky and Mungler not worthy of them?

There is a definite food chain which i'm always glad to witness (Naturally of course). I enjoy nothing more than watching a fellow hunter make a kill be it human or bird of prey!

[Chard]

The decline of songbirds in your garden has nothing whatsoever to do with birds of prey. They are a natural part of the food chain, unlike cats (apart from wildcats in Scotland)

 

The decline in songbirds is well-documented and fairly universal and no doubt has more to do with pesticide and herbicide use than anything else. Anybody over the age of about 15 will confirm that there are only a tiny fraction of the insects and wildflowers around compared to the way it used to be and there lies the problem. No insect food, no seeds for songbirds or farmland birds.

 

I've heard people twittering on about their empty birdtables before, when they keep an army of cats as pets

 

Persecution of birds of prey is illegal and rightly so. The only thing that's wrong with the law is that the sentences are nowhere near harsh enough.

[WeihrauchPower]

The decline of songbirds in your garden has nothing whatsoever to do with birds of prey. They are a natural part of the food chain, unlike cats (apart from wildcats in Scotland)

 

The decline in songbirds is well-documented and fairly universal and no doubt has more to do with pesticide and herbicide use than anything else. Anybody over the age of about 15 will confirm that there are only a tiny fraction of the insects and wildflowers around compared to the way it used to be and there lies the problem. No insect food, no seeds for songbirds or farmland birds.

 

I've heard people twittering on about their empty birdtables before, when they keep an army of cats as pets

 

Persecution of birds of prey is illegal and rightly so. The only thing that's wrong with the law is that the sentences are nowhere near harsh enough.

 

Well said Chard!

[codling99]

wow all this fuss over some starlings and sparrows,that as far as im aware are both on this years vermin list,and would be shot on site in my garden wish i had a few hawks visit my garden

[Ferret Master]

Can't really see the point in shooting a little sparrow just because it is in your garden.

[codling99]

dont shoot them ,anymore anyways,used to be a regular ferret food . aint got airgun no more so dont shoot them,but they are a nuicance imo,nesting in roof space ,make hell of a racket in summer months,**** everywhere (starlings). just my opinion on them,rather birds of prey anyday.

[Bazooka Joe]

wow all this fuss over some starlings and sparrows,that as far as im aware are both on this years vermin list,and would be shot on site in my garden wish i had a few hawks visit my garden

 

Suggest you read this codling99

 

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/changes_to_general_licenc

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/27/easpar127.xml

 

Both have being taken off the general licence since 2005...

 

BJ.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Bazooka Joe

[codling99]

they on the welsh one mate

http://www.basc.org.uk/media/basc_informat...l_licences1.pdf

[Bazooka Joe]

That hardly apply's to your back garden Codling99,

 

BJ.

[clum84]

ive noticed a massive massive rise in the amount of buzzards over the last few years. had many a days rabbit shooting ruined by them flying around overhead screaching away. dont know if they should really be culled though as its probably just natures answer to the massive rabbit population.

[chunk]

I think in general peoples cats kill a fair amount of songbirds. They are said to account for millions of birds and small mammals every year. Combined with sanitised gardens, there isnt much to attract birds. They need a steady supply of food, a warm roosting site and safe places to nest. If this is not available they move on or die out.

My old garden was massive with mature trees, an orchard and i had a veg patch. There were brambles in the hedges with berries in the winter. It was a wildlife paradise. Anything could be found; frogs,toads,slow worms, various birds, and mammals. It had everything they needed.

The garden where i live now has very little. I see at least four different cats in it, and however much i put out feeders and bird tables i never see more than a couple of blackbirds, and a large woody that stuffs itself on the bird table.