Andy17 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 hi all, I'm currently researching what caliber to apply for over the next few days. The primary use of the gun would be fox although I wouldnt mind a caliber that i could use for long range vermin aswell. The calibers I have in mind are the .204, .22-250 and the .243 (useful as I have plenty of muntjac on the land). For any .204 users, is the recoil as light as people say it is?,either unmoded or with one. I've heard you can see the bullet hit through the scope, is this true?, also how does it perform on fox?. Is it actually any different from shooting a .22-250 with lighter bullets?. Any ideas on what to get?. Thabks for any input. Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 despite the law now regarding .22cf for munties i would go for the .243, but best bet is to ask your feo for his thoughts, but don't let yourself be told what you can or can not have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I believe the .22CF law on small deer was over turned at the last min. But check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treestalker Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I use a 223 for foxing and have shot loads of Scottish Roe with it. Low recoil and you can see the bullet strike. However several mates of mine use the 6mmPPC and the 6mmBR for foxing and deer BUT they handload their own ammunition. I'd probably go for the 243 if you're only getting one gun but some Police areas don't like the 243 for foxing. 204 Ruger - I haven't owned one but a mate got rid of his within a year and another mate swears by his! One wasn't convinced with the killing power yet the other one is! You can handload 40 grainers in the 22-250 and get similar performance. Even the 223 can push the 40 grainers 3600 fps+. 22-250 - don't know anyone locally who still uses one. People I know that did have them 20 years ago are now on the 223 and the smaller 6mm's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I believe the .22CF law on small deer was over turned at the last min. But check. what do you mean Nick? I am not sure what you are saying Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Andy your choice may be restriced by your FEO dependant on your experiance and what land you intend to shot over you are more likely to get a centerfire .22 than a .243 as a first rifle for foxing and may not get deer on your ticket unless you can get a mentor or pass your DSC 1 A .22 centerfire will of course only be allowed for Muntjac & CWD whereas a .243 will be allowed for all deer I have a 22-250 for foxing using 52gr A-max's but I wouldn't use this round on deer as it expands too quickly, so you would have to choose a suitable deer bullet such as a V-max or a heavier jacketed lead tipped bullet which would still be okay for fox. Best to phone your FEO and ask him as it varies from force to force as to wha they allow for what. If you disagree with what he tells you do not argue but first speak to someone at BASC if you are a member, or NGO or similar group and take there advise before you approach your FEO again. you may not have any problems most FEO are very helpfull and often are shooters themselves Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy17 Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Thanks for the replys, The land that I shoot over has been passed for .25-06, the only really appealing thing about the .204 was the low recoil (if it is really as low as they say?), but if its marginal for fox then maybe the .22-250 or the .243. I've only had my .17hmr for approx 18months now so I'll have to find out what they think to me getting a .243. Anymore input much apreciated. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I have had a .204 for about 12 months now and so far I have been really pleased with it. I bought it mainly for long range crows and it has proved to be superbly accurate with no recoil whatsoever, you really can see the bullet strike. Since early autumn I have been using it foxing and again I can't fault it. Infact since getting the .204 my .223 has not been out of the cabinet. The only time I use the .243 for foxing now is if there is a howling gale, but to be honest I think the .204 would cope it's just that I feel the .243 will buck the wind across the valleys better. However If I was to buy a dedicated foxing rifle for use on very large fields and moorland I would chose a 22.250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy17 Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Charlie, Is your .204 silenced?, what sort of ranges have you been taking foxes out to?. The max range I'd probably shoot fox's at would be 175-200 yards at most, do you feel the .204 would be sufficient for that. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 (edited) Andy - There is hardly any recoil with a moderated 243 and you can see the bullet strike. you can use 55grn bullets for foxes and go right to 100grn and beyond for deer , it's an excellent calibre. i have just changed from 243 to 6.5 x 55mm , but wish i had kept the 243 as well. also dont woryy about getting a 243 for foxing and deer first time round, if you have a good reason to own your FAO cannot refuse you. Edited March 9, 2008 by tulkyuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Andy I have been taking foxes out to say 275 yds quite happily. Yes mine is silenced, it is kinder on my lamp man !!. However it has made no noticeable difference to the recoil, just quietened it down. Unlike Tulkyuk I find I can never see the bullet strike with a .243 but with the .204 the rifle just does not move and to see the bullet strike a very distant crow is amazing. However if I was buying just one c/f as a do it all gun I would seriously consider either a 22.250 or .234 depending on weather I wished to shoot deer or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Another vote for the 243, the calibre that does it all! I would not go the 204 route if there is any chance that you will want to shoot deer at any time. Imagine the scene;You are out foxing, early morning, and you come a across a deer, what do you do? With a 243, it's in the bag, providing that it is on your ticket of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I use a .243 for fox and Deer I tend to stick with 95 grain noslers, they are only droping 2 inches at 200m with a 100m zero. I am yet to have a fox run after I have shot it with the .243 it puts some big old holes in them but does not tend to be that bad for meat damage on the deer. I note some one said some FLOs dont like .243 for fox; not nearly as much as fox dont like it!! I have shot roe Sika and Muntjack with it and the large Sika seam to drop just as well as the roe do in my limited experiance. I use a moderator on mine, I found this improved accuracy over night and reduced the recoil to that of a .223ish and as has been said I can observe the strike when I shoot now Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v-max Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Hello i think for easyness a 243 as a 204 would be best homeloaded & a 243 has plenty factory amunision of diffrent weights of bullets to buy. I have a 22.250 & a 25/06 & homeload both but the 25 cal heads quite hard to get in my area. Duey V-max are softer than A-max as A-max is a target round & not legal for deer & v-max are not recomended for use on deer as they are a varmint bullet. Andy17 i dont think it is law that DMQ1 is legal to have deer on your ticket as long you have experiance & the permision from land owner/sporting rights holder to shoot them it is safety with a firearm that is the question. Why allow for fox & not deer is it ok to wound a fox but not a deer i think not. This DMQ1 thing is being used all the time for deer & FAC & we should put a stop to our police forces trying to use it. Andy17 if the land is cleared for up to 25/06 i think you should go for 2 rifles either your 204 or 22.250 & a 6.5 or 25/06 a big rifle & small like i have done as i had a 243 as well for years but got rid off as i wanted a putt/putt & a big rifle no need for more c/f rifle really & get the bigger rifle at a later date down the line & im not sute how legal on deer a 204 is. :blink: Edited March 10, 2008 by v-max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 so the unsuggested caliber so far is the .223, fine on foxes fine on long range vermin and now legal for muntjack. IMHO the .243 is a little big to be using for vermin especially if you anticipate using a fair few rounds for it. on a side note my FEO was raving about the .204 when I got my HMR, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Talk to frank regarding the .204, he had issues with over expansion and lack of penetration, great for vermin, possibly better rounds for fox. My recomendation would be any thing 'larger' than a .222 I have used a 6.5 for vermin control alot as it does the job very well, its vermin control not shooting for a food product, and the cost of rifle shooting once you factor in homeloading, rifle, optics, mounts, personal time, reloading components etc..... is so high there is really no way to justify shooting anything other than maybe deer with centerfire. Its an expensive hobby, personally i enjoy the shooting enough to invest the extra 20p a shot if it means having a gun that ticks all the boxes (vermin, fox, deer) .243 is an excellent round, very destructive, found it to be even more destructive than the 6.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy17 Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Thanks for the replys, So I could put the application in for a .204 for long range vermin and fox and a .243/6.5 for fox and deer control, do the FEO generally accept the application of more than one caliber at the same time?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdwillis Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Iv just got a variation for a .243 for munty's and fox (and the odd larger deer). I was in exactly your position, had 12 months experience with a .17hmr, wanted to shoot fox and muntys, applied for a .223, and then went out shooting with an experienced team of beaters and all said change to the .243 so rang the FLO and changed it. .17HMR should be plently long enough for vermin. .243 is good for everything else. my uncle was my mentor and wrote me a letter straight away as iv been slaking with him for 6 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v-max Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 If you have the ground & justification for it which i think you do for 2 rifles as 1 small vermin rifle & 1 big with it made open for invited shoots or any other ground obtained under the conditions of you FAC. Get the bigger rifle for vermin/fox & deer if you can that way you can still shoot crows etc with the bigger & be legal. I have this condition on my ticket & as i home load i like to use the rounds up or keep my eye in with odd crows/rabbits etc even with the 25/06 i have. My area is bad with FAC & they give you nowt but i am looking to add 6.5x284 at some point & should get no probs. I dont see why you shouldent get 2 calibers on your ticket as you have 5yrs to get the second rifle & the need/ground for it & saves hasel later with wanting another as you could switch cal of rifle with the open space on ticket to purchase/require say 243 rifle & change to 6.5 or 25/06 as you learn more or some thing takes you fancy & remember mod's for each too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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