1st steps into the world of deerstalking

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

Dear pigeonwatch faithful.

 

I am taking my 1st steps into the world of deerstalking and would appreciate a little help and advice from the stalkers on here.

 

A little about myself first, i have held an FAC for over 12yrs for the most a .22rf but for the last few years a .223 shooting foxes and i have an open condition on my ticket. I am hoping to take up a stalking opportunity from a friend in the near future (scotland), and am reading everything i can on deer (including text book for DSC 1 )in readiness for doing the DSC level 1 and after that the level 2.

 

As i understand the law the .223 is legal for roe in scotland, chinese water deer and muntjac in england and wales subject to 50grn bullet, 2450fps and 1000ft/lbs muzzle energy (please correct if this is wrong). Does anyone have any experience of using the .223 against roe? what bullet / load would you recommend. When funds allow i will probably upgrade to one of the larger calibres (what would you recommend? .243 is my first thought but advice much appreciated ) but for now using the .223 would be preferable, obviously not against the larger deer species.

 

What are peoples experience getting deer put onto their tickets for roe with a .223 is there anything specifically is should know or is it straight forward?

 

Does anyone have any useful links to help my studies? i still have alot to learn and any help advice would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks, GSAW

[Baldrick]

Good question - I don't know how an English police force would react to you asking for Scottish roe to be put on your FAC. A quick phone call to your FEO will clarify the position. Re your stalking invite, is the 'near future' too so imminent that you can't sell the .223 and replace it with something like a .243 or 6.5x55 that'll allow you to also shoot English roe, and up to Scottish reds?

 

Speaking of .223 use on deer, a neighbouring gamekeeper here in Essex bragged to me about how he uses ONLY a .223 with 68-gn ballistic tips for red deer. I repeat, red deer. In Essex. Head-shoots them only, the hero tells me. He also has a .243, but obviously has so little little regard for his quarry that he uses an illegal calibre.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Baldrick

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

thanks for the reply baldrick.

 

Alas i dont own the .223 a very kind friend has allowed me to borrow his whenever i like i dont think he would take kindly to me selling it HA HA ( it is on my licence to borrow it).

 

The keepers .223 may well drop red deer with head shots but the law of the land is the law of the land and i for one prefer to stay on the right side of it. i think a call to my FEO is in order as you suggest.

 

rgds

 

GSAW

[CERVUSHUNTER]

hi Gonna Shoot a Wabbit,

here are my thoughts i have been stalking for nearly 20 years now ,

for 17 years used a .243 as i mainly shot roe ,changed to a 7mm 08 as i now shoot more red and fallow than roe .have not looked back since it hits hard, sometimes too hard for roe but dead is dead. my brother has just started but he uses a .308! seems better tham my 7mm

 

i agree with baldrick could you not change to .243 now and be covered for anything!

 

get some good binos, a sharp knife and learn how to sharpen it! try shooting sticks if you dont use them .

dont try to shoot deer beyond your capability, i rarely shoot over 120 yards-fortuneatly my perms allow me to stalk close or my high seats are situated close to racks.

dont try head/neck shots stick to in line with front leg in the middle of the body but dont forget to allow for the angle the beast is standing at.

be certain before you set off you know where and what you may shoot stick to it no matter what.

take your time and enjoy it .

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

thanks cervushunter

 

Will in all probability get a .243 when funds allow but the .223 is available now hence the question re its suitability.

 

Got some good bins (swarovski)

got a decent knife and folding back up (both razor sharp thanks to DMT type sharpening kit)

 

Thanks for the advice re shot placement, it says the same in DSC 1 textbook.

 

rgds

 

GSAW

[tulkyuk]

GSAW - just ask for deer stalking to be put on your ticket for the .223 when you talk to the FAO and it will be fine for when you shoot in scotland , england & Wales

 

thats whats written on mine

Edited May 17, 2008 by tulkyuk

[tjdwillis]

I was in the same sort of position as you a few months ago. I have been stalking for about 5 years, but always with my uncle (.243) or with an ex proffesional who is a friend of his (.308) and all roe deer. I have shot a few stags in scotland with .243. I opted for a .243 as it covers everything. Most of my shooting is fox, muntjac, roe. I am using 75gn bullets at the moment and it deals with them all. For the very occasional red in the future 100gn bullets will be fine. Everything i have shot with my own rifle has been under 100 yards as im still new to doing it alone. Im very happy with it. My uncle has swapped his for a .25-06, just because hes doing more reds now. I would go for a .243 again if i was starting again, although my experience with others is limited.

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

thanks everyone your input is much appreciated

[tulkyuk]

i would also consider a 6.5 x 55 if your going to ask for a variation, it will deal with any deer we have in the uk - you can load from an 85grn bullet for Roe up to 155 and above for reds.

 

If you fancy trying a 6.5 out, give me a shout and you can have ago with mine anytime.

Edited May 18, 2008 by tulkyuk

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

Thanks tulkyuk thats a very generous offer, i will keep you posted on where i am up to and what i decide and may indeed take you up on it.

 

.243 / .308 / 6.5X55 / .25-06 There seems to be plenty to choose from regarding calibres so everyones opinion is much appreciated.

 

rgds

 

GSAW

[scolopax]

I am just starting to break through into stalking, as after a couple of year with an FAC I am starting to get a few decent places to stalk and am putting a few animals in the larder. I have a .243 and I stalk Roe, it does the job well enough but don't expect them to roll over dead on the spot every time with this calibre, most run a distance when heart/ lung shot.

 

I am happy enough with the calibre but have always had it in the back of my mind that I should have gone for a 6.5 x 55 to give me more capability for the larger species, but thats mainly because I cannot get a decent group with anything over 95 grain with my rifle. My brother uses 75 grain through his .243 with equally good results on Roe.

 

One other point which I guess you already know is that if you do stick to the .223 for stalking is to used soft nosed bullets designed for deer and not the explosive type vermin bullets designed for foxes etc. I work with a guy who shoots a hell of alot of deer (contract culing) and uses his .22-250 for Roe and a .270 for Reds.

[Highlander]

I use a .243 for what I shoot most, Muntjac, Roe and Fallow. 80g bullets that I can easily group at 1" x 100m. I like the .243 as the recoil is low (compared with larger cals) and allows me to see the shot placement and the beasts reaction easily. I would also use it on the occassional Red but probably (certainly in Scotland) with 100+g bullets. If your stalking is recreational or occassional then one rifle for the lot seems good to me and I'm not a believer in vastly long ranges as I think your fieldcraft should play a big part in your stalking. Anyone can shoot at a beast 200/300m away but not everyone can get to within or less than 100m and IMO that's part of the game.

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

Hi Highlander.

 

Thanks for your reply, i couldn't agree more that one rifle for the lot seems a good idea to me as well i will just have to decide which one. I think you hit the nail on the head re shooting at distance, i also like to get as close as possible to my intended quarry as that is the challenge i enjoy.

 

What in your experience is the .243's knockdown capacity, i read about and hear about deer running for a distance even after a good shot into the boilerhouse? would you say this the norm and that it is one of the quirks of the .243 or is it a facet of deerstalking whatever calibre you use? What is your opinion on the 6.5 X 55 / .270

 

Rgds

 

GSAW

[cubix]

I posted this on a separate thread ysterday, it may be useful :

 

http://www.dcs.gov.uk/BestPractice/

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

Many thanks cubix.

 

Exactly the direction i was hoping someone would be able to point me in.

 

I especially found the gralloching and butchery section very useful indeed.

 

Going back to it now for further study.

 

Rgds

 

GSAW

[Highlander]

Hi Highlander.

Thanks for your reply, i couldn't agree more that one rifle for the lot seems a good idea to me as well i will just have to decide which one. I think you hit the nail on the head re shooting at distance, i also like to get as close as possible to my intended quarry as that is the challenge i enjoy.

What in your experience is the .243's knockdown capacity, i read about and hear about deer running for a distance even after a good shot into the boilerhouse? would you say this the norm and that it is one of the quirks of the .243 or is it a facet of deerstalking whatever calibre you use? What is your opinion on the 6.5 X 55 / .270

Rgds

GSAW

 

Personally I think that if the deer is aware of you before you shoot the chances are that it's adrenelin is pumped up ready for flight and when hit that's exactly what it does. Wouldn't matter what calibre. If the bullet placement is good then it shouldn't go too far. Good deer dog can then be useful especially if the light is failing. Don't hyave an opinion on the 6.5 x 55 /.270 as I don't own any but people who do swear by them but isn't that the case with whatever you use, it's always the best (for you)!

[Harnser]

The pleasure is in the stalk not in the kill . Harnser .

[marky123]

Hi CUBIX

Great linky

thanky

MARKY

[radio1ham]

well i also have the .243 for deer and fox vermin control

as for stalking the deer ive never done deer stalking yet as were i shoot there no need to stalk the deer

sometimes i can sit in certain places and the deer will happily just wonder about doing their thing

and they have been pretty close to me aswell they know im there but just dont seem to care much i did put a picture on here of one that was no more than 50 meters away from me which if i had the .243 with me i could of quite easyly got him for the freezer

i have a theory (all good things come to those that wait ) and it works

but theres plenty of time for me to shoot the deer im in no great hurry just yet

i was in same boat as to whether which cal to go for till i put a few questions on here and also asked at gun shops

and they said if for deer best i can go for was a good allrounder was the .243

so that i decided to go for it done the paper work etc

posted it of to flo and a week later got cert back with to aquire a 243

anyway a lot of the guys helped me decide what to go for on here

check my posts for the pic i took of a roe buck

he only knew a was there because of the sound of the camera

and he wasnt to bothered i guess they get used to seeing me walking around the fields and even once a good while ago i was zeroing the scope on the .22 and i was shooting away and i seen the deer just standing watching me from a distance

Edited July 2, 2008 by radio1ham

[fallowbuck]

For an all rounder you can't beat a .308 it has more than enough power for anything here including wild boar.Just up the bullet weight to 180gns if your shooting them regular. For deer , stick with the 150gn spitzer soft point ,it'll do anything from Muntjac to the biggest Reds.Zero for 1inch high at 100yds, then your ok out to 200yds with a dead on hold.Ammunition is very easy to obtain for .308. Also if you want to shoot on the range you can get 7.62x51 NATO military surplus as it is exactly the same ammo(Metric measure)at about £3 for twenty!!.This would be FMJ so don't use it for quarry animals.

Edited July 21, 2008 by fallowbuck

[Harnser]

The best advice that i was ever given many years ago by my old mentor , was what he used to call dry stalking . This was stalking all species without taking a rifle along .This can be done all the year round and through out the close season .This will really sharpen up you stalking skills . See how close you can get and judge wether or not you could make the shot . A wonderful way to spend some time in the country side . The pleasure is in the stalk ,not in the kill . Harnser .

Edited July 21, 2008 by Harnser