What Predator?

[bob300w]

Get down there and sort it or i`ll do it for you.

And when you get it, I'll have a quid on it being an old fox, not a young one.

[codling99]

Get down there and sort it or i`ll do it for you.

And when you get it, I'll have a quid on it being an old fox, not a young one.

 

ill have a 10 enr on that

[anser2]

Its very unlikely to be a buzzard. I have spent the last 12 years studying buzzards in Norfolk and never seen one take a game bird yet. Yes juvenile buzzards are attracted to pheasant poults in pens , ( i guess the movement attracts them ) but the only bird i have ever seen a buzzard take was a half grown coot. Here in Norfolk rabbits , frogs , voles and invertebrates make up 99% of their prey.

 

I was watching a flock of feeding wood pigeons on rape stubble the other day. There were 3 buzzards hunting the field for voles and the pigeons never stired all afternoon until a sparrowhawk came by chasing finches. This suggests that if the pigeons were not scared of the buzzards on that day they never experianced being hunted by buzzards. I have also had buzzards hunting for prey on foot in the middle of my dead pigeon decoy patten on several occasions. they never even looked at the dead pigeons , even the ones laying on their back having been recently shot. What they were realy after were the dozens of black ground beetles present on the field.

 

Its so easy to blame birds of prey for things they do not do just because we find a dead poult or two. Anyway when a buzzard catches its prey it lifts off and takes it to a safe place to eat and would not leave a rearing pen full of dead poults. I would not say a buzzard would never take a game bird , but it must be a very rare event.

Edited August 18, 2008 by anser2

[bullet boy]

Get down there and sort it or i`ll do it for you.

And when you get it, I'll have a quid on it being an old fox, not a young one.

 

Oh it`ll be an experienced old campaigner thats for sure!

[CharlieT]

Its very unlikely to be a buzzard. I have spent the last 12 years studying buzzards in Norfolk and never seen one take a game bird yet. Yes juvenile buzzards are attracted to pheasant poults in pens , ( i guess the movement attracts them ) but the only bird i have ever seen a buzzard take was a half grown coot. Here in Norfolk rabbits , frogs , voles and invertebrates make up 99% of their prey.

 

I was watching a flock of feeding wood pigeons on rape stubble the other day. There were 3 buzzards hunting the field for voles and the pigeons never stired all afternoon until a sparrowhawk came by chasing finches. This suggests that if the pigeons were not scared of the buzzards on that day they never experianced being hunted by buzzards. I have also had buzzards hunting for prey on foot in the middle of my dead pigeon decoy patten on several occasions. they never even looked at the dead pigeons , even the ones laying on their back having been recently shot. What they were realy after were the dozens of black ground beetles present on the field.

 

Its so easy to blame birds of prey for things they do not do just because we find a dead poult or two. Anyway when a buzzard catches its prey it lifts off and takes it to a safe place to eat and would not leave a rearing pen full of dead poults. I would not say a buzzard would never take a game bird , but it must be a very rare event.

 

 

Whilst I agree it is not a Buzzard,I have to say that we have dozens of them down here and I regularly see them take both poults and very occasionally an adult bird.

[Teal]

Its very unlikely to be a buzzard. I have spent the last 12 years studying buzzards in Norfolk and never seen one take a game bird yet. Yes juvenile buzzards are attracted to pheasant poults in pens , ( i guess the movement attracts them ) but the only bird i have ever seen a buzzard take was a half grown coot. Here in Norfolk rabbits , frogs , voles and invertebrates make up 99% of their prey.

 

Its so easy to blame birds of prey for things they do not do just because we find a dead poult or two. Anyway when a buzzard catches its prey it lifts off and takes it to a safe place to eat and would not leave a rearing pen full of dead poults. I would not say a buzzard would never take a game bird , but it must be a very rare event.

I have seen buzzards on many occasions killing poults. Some are worse for it than others. The ones which are bad are very bad indeed. Whilst they don't kill for fun, if you are losing a poult a day it quickly adds up.

 

That said this isn't a buzzard, and is almost certainly a fox. I recommend quickly plucking/skinning the dead birds as you can often pick up clues from the puncture wounds and their location on the body.

[kip270]

Its very unlikely to be a buzzard. I have spent the last 12 years studying buzzards in Norfolk and never seen one take a game bird yet. Yes juvenile buzzards are attracted to pheasant poults in pens , ( i guess the movement attracts them ) but the only bird i have ever seen a buzzard take was a half grown coot. Here in Norfolk rabbits , frogs , voles and invertebrates make up 99% of their prey.

 

I was watching a flock of feeding wood pigeons on rape stubble the other day. There were 3 buzzards hunting the field for voles and the pigeons never stired all afternoon until a sparrowhawk came by chasing finches. This suggests that if the pigeons were not scared of the buzzards on that day they never experianced being hunted by buzzards. I have also had buzzards hunting for prey on foot in the middle of my dead pigeon decoy patten on several occasions. they never even looked at the dead pigeons , even the ones laying on their back having been recently shot. What they were realy after were the dozens of black ground beetles present on the field.

 

Its so easy to blame birds of prey for things they do not do just because we find a dead poult or two. Anyway when a buzzard catches its prey it lifts off and takes it to a safe place to eat and would not leave a rearing pen full of dead poults. I would not say a buzzard would never take a game bird , but it must be a very rare event.

 

You are joking? Buzzards are one of the biggest killers of poults, with Goshawks being the worst and then we have Tawny owls too.

 

Not sure where you are studying your Buzzards, are there any release pens in your area?

 

If they are taking the heads off i would say it's a Tawny Owl, next time your out take your camera and gets some shots of the slain, that way we can see the evidence.

[bignoel]

any closer to knowing who the culprit is yet .

[Maldwyn]

any closer to knowing who the culprit is yet .

 

Despite the opinions on many on this thread. the general consensus of the 'syndicate' believe that it's the work of mink. I personally thought that the neck puncture marks were to big for a mink/ polecat but I might be wrong. Tunnel traps have been re-positioned with one inside the pop-hole used for entry. There's been no further kills in the last 24hrs, most of the poults get up high to roost outside the pen and are queing up for re-entry at breakfast time. I'll try and get some photos.

[Paul223]

With the wet weather the ground tends to pack down and foot prints are hard to make out, try some red sand inside the pop hole, this will give better print marks.

 

My moneys on an older small vixen

 

Lamping does not always produce results with foxes that have found an easy early morning meal, vantage point to the pen works best, stay quite far back ( 2-300yards) listen and watch, the fox will stay around for some time chasing back and forth, with the poults making lots of noise when disturbed, when you've located the area being worked stalk in closer remembering not to break the skyline and wind direction ( not trying to teach to suck eggs ).

[JDFrain]

tawney owls (Square faced Ba@@~+ds) they enjoy pulling heads of birds may be worth putting some bags round the top of your pens, i also use CDs hung in the trees seems to help.

 

john

[Highlander]

Where'd you guys get BUZZARD from? Reading the post it seems every attack was at night, go figure.

 

My money would be on fox, an old canny ******* but I'd still put a second (smaller) bet on badger. Something big and heavy wrecking all that kit.

 

If he keeps coming he's gonna get it one way or another as long as you don't fall asleep

[bignoel]

carefull badger's are protected ?

[bjlfishing]

if the situation gets worse and its possible get a brash ride up around your pen and get a few wires in it that way you will defo find out if its charlie as for buzzards dont kill game birds ive never herd so much B******* ive seen a buzzard take a fully grown hen bird never mind poults

[Maldwyn]

A few pics for you to look at. Puncure marks at the back of neck and under chin.

 

Still think it's a fox?

[Paul223]

As has already been suggested pluck or skin to reveal carcase damage

[Maldwyn]

The pop-hole used for entering with fox grid in situ. Now blocked off with a tunnel trap. Fresh dropping found today.

[Maldwyn]

Surviving so far and enjoying a spell of sunshine

[anser2]

All I can say to those of you that blame buzzards for taking game birds is that its a very rare even in Norfolk. Part of my job for the past 12 years is studying common and honey buzzards and their recent spread in Norfolk. And after spending 1000s of hours watching buzzards hunting over farmland , woods and release pens none of the birds I have watched have touched any game birds. On a couple of occasions keepers have complained of buzzard trouble , but each time the real culprit has been marsh harrier or sparrowhawk. many of my local keepers welcome the buzzards as they keep the rabbits down and some keepers even put food down ( rabbit guts ) for the buzzards in winter.

 

I have 14 pairs and a number of non breeding buzzards in the area I watch and as I said before , their main food is rabbits , voles , invertebrates and in spring , frogs. There are dozens of road kill pheasants about at this time of year and I have never seen a buzzard on them.

 

I would not rule out the possibility of a common buzzard feeding on a pheasant killed by some other predator. I see almost every day harriers and sparrowhawks flying with bird prey in their talons , but can anyone on here honestly say without a shadow of doubt they have ever seen a buzzard fly past them carrying pheasants. As for carrying poults you would need to look through bins or a scope to be sure what they are carrying. On the other hand I do see marsh harriers regularly carrying pheasants up to the size of a full grown hen.

 

 

Juvenile buzzards do seem to have an attraction to pheasant release pens. i would guess its the movement of the poults. And they can cause panic with the poults at times, but I have found that they quickly get used to the buzzards and ignore them. In any case a common buzzard is a big birds and needs space to hunt , A net or even a number of wires over the top of a release pen would easily defend the poults in them.

Edited August 19, 2008 by anser2

[bjlfishing]

it aint fox **** anyway unless its had a dodgy curry are you sure there aint no other holes in your pen that a fox could get in as it still looks like a fox the puncture marks look to big for a polecat etc but it could be a big old hob try skinning one and posr piccy of the body damage as a fox will of bruised it a bit and there should be more puncture marks

[Maldwyn]

Anser2, That may be the case in Norfolk, but I can assure you that here in Mid Wales, buzzards are a real problem when it comes to released poults. They seem to know that at this time of year it's time to hunt for poults. We've been let off quite lightly so far this year, but the adjacent shoot which released their poults a week earlier than us have had no end of problems with buzzards alone.

Regarding your theory that they need plenty of space to hunt, this is far from true. Both our pens are within wooded areas. I've seen them fly to a branch and drop into the pen and kill two poults in one swoop. Other times, they fly over the pen, flushing the poults over the wire into the field, then pick the poults off as they make a dash for cover. It's not unusual to see 6-8 buzzards in the sky at any one time.

I doubt if these buzzards are juvenilles but veteran pheasant killers.

[tealer]

Tawny's are renowned for taking heads off pheasants. A fox will usually half bury a few and urinate on them and are obvious.they will always return if the site is left undisturbed. The puncture wounds could be the back talon of a Tawny who generally go for the head at roost often cleanly decapitating. it's not badger because your fence would be destroyed on entry. The birds too are big enough to be roosting adequately high enough. Its easier to see if your there but from what i can see a family of Tawny's shouldn't be ruled out yet.

[CharlieT]

anser2

 

You ask

"can anyone on here honestly say without a shadow of doubt they have ever seen a buzzard fly past them carrying pheasants"

 

Well I have on more occasions than I care to remember. I agree in the spring and early summer they feed on slugs etc, They follow the tractor when I am cutting grass for silage. However as soon as the poults come in they immediatly change their diet.

They cause us untold damage and one can see them day in day out taking birds as and when they feel like it. They will drop down and take adult birds no problem.

There are now far to many of them, it is not unusual to see 30+ in the air at one time. It really is about time their numbers were reduced, I hate to think how much wildlife they take over the year. If I never saw another I would be overjoyed.

[tealer]

anser2

 

You ask

"can anyone on here honestly say without a shadow of doubt they have ever seen a buzzard fly past them carrying pheasants"

 

Well I have on more occasions than I care to remember. I agree in the spring and early summer they feed on slugs etc, They follow the tractor when I am cutting grass for silage. However as soon as the poults come in they immediatly change their diet.

They cause us untold damage and one can see them day in day out taking birds as and when they feel like it. They will drop down and take adult birds no problem.

There are now far to many of them, it is not unusual to see 30+ in the air at one time. It really is about time their numbers were reduced, I hate to think how much wildlife they take over the year. If I never saw another I would be overjoyed.

No offence, but i for one have never seen a buzzard take any of my Pheasants, not even attempt one. I have even tried them as Falconry birds but even then they are hard work to catch anything with. A Owl, spar or gos on the other hand, thats a different matter

[v-max]

Im with the owl on this & in one of your pic's the hole was the ear drum of the bird.