What Predator?

[Maldwyn]

in one of your pic's the hole was the ear drum of the bird.

 

No it wasn't.

Take another look at that picture. The ear drum is to the right of the puncture mark, slightly obscured by a feather. Try turning your head upside down to look at the picture, you'll see it more clearly where the ear drum is.

[kip270]

Could be a POLECAT, and i don't mean ferret, but the puncture marks are strange.....

[kip270]

All I can say to those of you that blame buzzards for taking game birds is that its a very rare even in Norfolk. Part of my job for the past 12 years is studying common and honey buzzards and their recent spread in Norfolk. And after spending 1000s of hours watching buzzards hunting over farmland , woods and release pens none of the birds I have watched have touched any game birds. On a couple of occasions keepers have complained of buzzard trouble , but each time the real culprit has been marsh harrier or sparrowhawk. many of my local keepers welcome the buzzards as they keep the rabbits down and some keepers even put food down ( rabbit guts ) for the buzzards in winter.

 

I have 14 pairs and a number of non breeding buzzards in the area I watch and as I said before , their main food is rabbits , voles , invertebrates and in spring , frogs. There are dozens of road kill pheasants about at this time of year and I have never seen a buzzard on them.

 

I would not rule out the possibility of a common buzzard feeding on a pheasant killed by some other predator. I see almost every day harriers and sparrowhawks flying with bird prey in their talons , but can anyone on here honestly say without a shadow of doubt they have ever seen a buzzard fly past them carrying pheasants. As for carrying poults you would need to look through bins or a scope to be sure what they are carrying. On the other hand I do see marsh harriers regularly carrying pheasants up to the size of a full grown hen.

 

 

Juvenile buzzards do seem to have an attraction to pheasant release pens. i would guess its the movement of the poults. And they can cause panic with the poults at times, but I have found that they quickly get used to the buzzards and ignore them. In any case a common buzzard is a big birds and needs space to hunt , A net or even a number of wires over the top of a release pen would easily defend the poults in them.

 

All i can say is your NORFOLK Buzzards must be special or you've wasted 12 years.............

Speak to any Keeper and then will tell you the truth, BUZZARDS Adults and Eyasses do and will take GAME BIRDS FACT

[Quist]

I've never seen buzzards take game birds. They seem to me to focus on rabbits mostly.

Put some wires across the pen to break the flight lines if you suspect them or owls.

I still think a fox is the culprit though

[bignoel]

i tell ya its the big cat's at work .ha ha .looks like the work of a junior fox enjoying himself at your exspence

[anser2]

Kip ,

as I said in the postings I do talk to local keepers and some encourage the buzzards by putting out winter food for them. They are saving the keepers a job by keeping the local rabbits down. Its interesting that almost all the complaints against buzzards seem to come from the West Country , Cumbria and Wales. Out of 750+ views only 5 have posted any trouble with buzzards suggesting its a local problem affecting only a restricted number of shoots and most of the problems are coming from areas where goshawks occur.

 

 

In different weather conditions and in different stages of moult the jizz of buzzards changes. On windy days they tend to fly on flat wings and often on shorter wings. Likewise its normal for juvenile common buzzards for the first 6 weeks after fledging to fly on flat wings before they start to use the character of raised V shape wings for soaring . Like wise marsh harriers usually fly on raised V wings , but on occasion will fly on flat wings. Honey buzzards nearly always fly on flat wings ( these will never be a problem to pheasants as they are mainly amphibian and insect feeders , mainly wasps ). Goshawks and sparrowhawks also fly on flat wings

 

 

What I am getting at is just how sure are you that they are buzzards that are taking your poults. Once over 100 yards it can be very difficult to split up the larger raptors in flight and what looks like a standard common buzzard on one fine day can look like a goshawk the next day if there is a strong wind blowing.

 

At over 100 yards you need a pair of bins and preferable a scope to tell the difference between species. Before confirming any sightings I check wing angle , wing beats , tail length , body shape , how the head is held , before even thinking at looking at the birds plumage which is so varied is not a good indicator of species. Common buzzards come is all colours from pale cream to sandy to brown and even black or a combination of these colours.

 

I see 20-30 big raptors most days in the summer and even after years of studying I would be hesitant in the identification of species without a good look through the bins.

 

Buzzards are mainly open ground hunters rather than woodland hunters though they are lazy birds and do spend a lot of time in woods resting between hunts. Siting your pheasant release pens under a thick woodland canopy or stringing wires over the pen should deter common buzzards from attacking polts , but this may not work on goshawks.

 

I am not doubting you ID skills on raptors , but my experiance with a number of keepers is that while some have good ID skills others do not know the difference between common\rough legged\honey buzzards and the three species of harriers. They lump them all as buzzards.

[Millomite]

Buzzards have taken them up here! Regularly last year! We probably lost close to 50 poults

[Maldwyn]

Anser2

 

Let's put the buzzard issue to bed once and for all.

With regards to this particular thread, I know buzzards are not the main culprits here.

However, if you wish to continue debating the Buzzard issue, why not start another thread or even start a poll to see other peoples views outside Norfolk on where they stand with Buzzards killing game.

[Paul223]

Any chance of pics of 3 or 4 plucked / skinned carcases

[CharlieT]

I presume nothing happened last night.

[Maldwyn]

GOTCHA :(

 

A young vixen. Moved into the pen on Saturday and has been living in there very happily until the darkness caught up with her at lunchtime today, 4 days and 71 dead poults later. Finding half buried poults yesterday in soft ground under some briars eventually confirmed who the culprit was. Her luxurios lifestyle was ended with 36g off BBs as she eventually broke cover.

 

Lessons learnt

 

Now for the "I told you so" comments

[Ice]

Glad you solved it,

 

Taught it the hard way hey, steeling is a crime!!! "FACT"

[Disco Stu]

The culprit is finally caught

[grasshopper]

Thats put that 1 to bed...good result :( but,how big,s the pen for a fox to be in it for 4 days

[bjlfishing]

Kip ,

as I said in the postings I do talk to local keepers and some encourage the buzzards by putting out winter food for them. They are saving the keepers a job by keeping the local rabbits down. Its interesting that almost all the complaints against buzzards seem to come from the West Country , Cumbria and Wales. Out of 750+ views only 5 have posted any trouble with buzzards suggesting its a local problem affecting only a restricted number of shoots and most of the problems are coming from areas where goshawks occur.

 

 

In different weather conditions and in different stages of moult the jizz of buzzards changes. On windy days they tend to fly on flat wings and often on shorter wings. Likewise its normal for juvenile common buzzards for the first 6 weeks after fledging to fly on flat wings before they start to use the character of raised V shape wings for soaring . Like wise marsh harriers usually fly on raised V wings , but on occasion will fly on flat wings. Honey buzzards nearly always fly on flat wings ( these will never be a problem to pheasants as they are mainly amphibian and insect feeders , mainly wasps ). Goshawks and sparrowhawks also fly on flat wings

 

 

What I am getting at is just how sure are you that they are buzzards that are taking your poults. Once over 100 yards it can be very difficult to split up the larger raptors in flight and what looks like a standard common buzzard on one fine day can look like a goshawk the next day if there is a strong wind blowing.

 

At over 100 yards you need a pair of bins and preferable a scope to tell the difference between species. Before confirming any sightings I check wing angle , wing beats , tail length , body shape , how the head is held , before even thinking at looking at the birds plumage which is so varied is not a good indicator of species. Common buzzards come is all colours from pale cream to sandy to brown and even black or a combination of these colours.

 

I see 20-30 big raptors most days in the summer and even after years of studying I would be hesitant in the identification of species without a good look through the bins.

 

Buzzards are mainly open ground hunters rather than woodland hunters though they are lazy birds and do spend a lot of time in woods resting between hunts. Siting your pheasant release pens under a thick woodland canopy or stringing wires over the pen should deter common buzzards from attacking polts , but this may not work on goshawks.

 

I am not doubting you ID skills on raptors , but my experiance with a number of keepers is that while some have good ID skills others do not know the difference between common\rough legged\honey buzzards and the three species of harriers. They lump them all as buzzards.

there aint any goshawks up in cumbrian especially by me i know bazzards take poults ive witnessed it many times ive seen pairs of buzzards working together in one pen ive also seen a buzzard with a deformed beack like a finches beack kill poults

[bjlfishing]

just seen you got the culprit it must of been one big pen or a **** load of cover in it id be making doubley sure there was know way its brother and sisters could get in and i would probably thin out a bit of cover so there is just enough for your birds making it easier to keep tabs on whats going on in your pens the seventy 1 birds you have lost could be double if charlie has chassed any off roost and out of the pen for every thing else to eat

[scout]

Glad you solved you're problem.

[Chard]

To suggest that raptors or owls kill indiscriminately shows a breathtaking lack of knowledge of the subject.

They do kill gamebirds but not dozens at a time, that's just plain silly.

 

They take what they want to eat and go with it. They might come back later for another one, but they wouldn't leave piles of dead birds around

[Paul223]

:(

 

if you did skin one or two i would expect to see more teeth marks, bruising and crushed ribs, almost like they have been stood on

[bignoel]

peace at last .

[v-max]

Well done to you. I dident read the whole thread & was unaware there was pilles of dead bird's i read the first couple of pages. If it was only a dozen or so poults i put it down too an owl/hedgehog or polecat etc as iv had owls kill 3-4 a night for a 2-3 days & stopped when the poults started to roost. I dont think for 1min that fox has been there for 4 days or you would have no poults iv lost 300-400 in 1 pen in 1 night to foxes & foxes behavour can be diffrent pending age & if lame etc. I think you got the fox as a new in commer IMHO.

[Quist]

Good for you.

I hope that's the worst of your troubles this year.

[CharlieT]

Well done ......................

[anser2]

Bjlfishing , I am sorry but you do have goshawks in Cumbria. Pairs breed at several sites at Kersthorpe , plus Cumwiton and Beetham to name a few of the sites.

Edited August 20, 2008 by anser2

[bjlfishing]

Bjlfishing , I am sorry but you do have goshawks in Cumbria. Pairs breed at several sites at Kersthorpe , plus Cumwiton and Beetham to name a few of the sites.

there is non on my shoot thats what im saying the only trouble we have with poults is from bazzards hen bird sparrow hawks and tawny owls to suggest that people who are out in the country side day in day out carnt reconise common birds ie buzzards is a bit of a insult to say the least most keepers and country people will reconise a varitity of different species and take notice of what goes on around them