Salop Matt Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Hay people sorry if this is a dumb question but iv always been bought up with shotguns and air rifles so have next to no bullet firearms knowlege. My question is why has the 9mm round never been used for hunting / vermin control ? is it the short range of the round`s capability ? I was curious after i remember seing a single shot straight pull H&K MP5 at Minsterly ranges when i visited there last year ! If 9mm is used by law enforcement and by the millitary surely it should be a cheap round to run ? Am guessing its down to the rounds performance, Although am sure at 60yrds a 9mm would have the killing power for a fox Or short range dispatch tool. Again if this is a dumb question i hang my head in shame and appologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbickerd Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I would be interested to know this as well. I've seen a guy shooting an AR15 clone in 9mm and it seems pretty accurate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted September 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Thank god am not alone ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Looking at the case I can only guess that the 9x19 round is pretty slow and the trajectory could be pretty hopeless. At close range it probably has good punch and probably stops in the target too. There may be civilian rifles chambered in 9mm, but would most likely be for target use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 9mil is a close quaters round, no good at distance work bullet tumble velocity etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 (edited) The 9mm round was designed as an automatic pistol round . It is quite effective at close quarters as a defensive round but lacks the punch at longer ranges for an effective offensive round . The very short case is particulary good for extraction within a semi auto pistol or a fully automatic pistol . I owned a number of 9 mm pistols in the good old days but found them wanting in the accuracy division even at the relatively close ranges of 25 yards . The very short case restricts the amount of powder that can be used to make them a long range weapon and the round is inherently much less accurate than a rifle round because of the type of bullet used . Hopr this answers your question . Also it is prefered by law enforcement because of its comparative lack of power compared with rifle rounds . It wont pass through a body and kill somebody else 100 yards down the road . Harnser . Edited September 4, 2008 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 From a hunting application, there's nothing you would use 9x19mm for where there isn't a better existing (and legal) alternative in terms of ballistics, cost and overall accuracy. In a military context, the 9mm isn't ideal, when you consider what a 230gr .45ACP round (or even 10mm or .40 S&W) offers you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookie Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 They used to say that if you were wearing a thick overcoat and standing a hundred yards away from a Sterling SMG, the 9mm rounds would bounces off. I have to add that I would _NOT_ want to try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I thought it was if you were stood behind a wt army issue blanket!! either way I wouldn't be trying it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Myths , i can assure you that a 9mm will cause you serious injury or death at 100 yards . Hanser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taz24 Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) They used to say that if you were wearing a thick overcoat and standing a hundred yards away from a Sterling SMG, the 9mm rounds would bounces off. I have to add that I would _NOT_ want to try this. Its not that the bullets would bounce off, its just that the bullets would be bouncing around you. Sterlings were not designed for long range accuracy But as stated I would not stand infront, just incase. Cheers ozone . Edited September 5, 2008 by taz24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 As pointed out they have always been used in pistols and short barreled rifels but am curious what would happen if it were fired from a bolt action with a long barrel ? would the acuracy at distance be gained ? Could the H&K straight pull MP5 or a 9mm pistol be used as a dispatch whepon for say a snared fox at 10ft (theretically and head shot) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 9mm is used for humane despatch pistols in some cases, and smaller calibres too. Personally I use a .410 for dealing with snared/caged foxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoKerr Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 The 9mm is just not very good ballistically and doesn't travel well. Short range only and then not very good as far as stopping power goes. Target use is a different matter, if you're only punching paper then it's not too bad. I'd watch that straight-pull MP5, there is some question as to it's 'readily convertible' status. There's a reason only one made it into the country and then no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsguitarist Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) referring to wookies comment... Its true. At 40 yards with thick (generous of course) clothing a 9mm has as much a chance of killing you as it does to bounce off you. The trajectory is retarded and the effective range is pretty useless for anything other than close range defence, hence why the police use them. Dispatching would be good though. Edited September 10, 2008 by smsguitarist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 referring to wookies comment... Its true. At 40 yards with thick (generous of course) clothing a 9mm has as much a chance of killing you as it does to bounce off you. The trajectory is retarded and the effective range is pretty useless for anything other than close range defence, hence why the police use them. Dispatching would be good though. You would be a fool to stand in front of a 9mm at 40 yards ,i can assure you that it would kill you stone dead . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsguitarist Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 ^^^ not from your average pistol. A friend of mine works on designs of new weapons for the army and they gave up on 9mm for that very reason. It was ruled 'in-effective' which i think is probably not quite true eh! im sure 50+% of the shots did some real damage but then again theres the rest which didnt. They moved on to the electric gun afterwards which is almost finished now. A hand held (manuverable) assault rifle accurate at 1km (almost). Wouldn't mind one myself eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 i spent saturday morning shooting a friends 9mm and i can assure you i would nt want to catch one.they have a lot of power ,best for close quarter but as said before would be lethal if hit with one at longer distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 ^^^ not from your average pistol. A friend of mine works on designs of new weapons for the army and they gave up on 9mm for that very reason. It was ruled 'in-effective' which i think is probably not quite true eh! im sure 50+% of the shots did some real damage but then again theres the rest which didnt. They moved on to the electric gun afterwards which is almost finished now. A hand held (manuverable) assault rifle accurate at 1km (almost). Wouldn't mind one myself eh! The ballistics of the 9mm pistol speaks for themself . A 130 grein bullet travelling at the muzzel at about 12,000 ft per second ,thats the same speed as a .22 rim fire H.V. and 9mm bullet is about four times the weight of the .22 and i can assure you that the 9mm is still supersonic at 40 yards ,proberbly around 900 to 1000 ft per second Now thats more than enough energy to penetrate your clothes and do you very serious injury if not death . Now had you said that it would very difficult to hit some body at 40 yards with a 9mm pistol i would have agree with you . you are quite right about the 9mm pistol in saying that it has found the end of its shelf life .Having said that it is still popular with law enforcement arround the world . Incedently its not the gun that is powerful its the cartridge .All 9mm pistols shoot the same cartridge and some are more powerful than others . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 yup, unless your "generous" amount of clothing contained an equally "generous" amount of kevlar, I think you would be SOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 ^^^ not from your average pistol. A friend of mine works on designs of new weapons for the army and they gave up on 9mm for that very reason. It was ruled 'in-effective' which i think is probably not quite true eh! im sure 50+% of the shots did some real damage but then again theres the rest which didnt. They moved on to the electric gun afterwards which is almost finished now. A hand held (manuverable) assault rifle accurate at 1km (almost). Wouldn't mind one myself eh! Eh? Who does your friend work for then?? ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 My brother had a 9mm glock 34 which he traded recently for a beretta over and under but before this he did some penetration tests It went through 3 inches of solid wood at 30 yards no problem. Now I think it is safe to assume it would go through clothes an extra 10 yards away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsguitarist Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 A company related to BAE. As like all bullets are designed a 9mm is designed to wound. Unless hit straight in the head at 40 yards you will just be 'wounded'. Theres a reason they practice shooting their 9mm's at 15yards. 9mm is a very slow bullet in comparison to most others, it doesnt even reach the speed of sound but like you say its still a lump of lead being launched at you! People have said that you can be killed at 100yards with a 9mm...? It's just not true. They did field tests and they bounced of combat jackets you buy in the shop at 100yards. In saying this my verdict is still get out the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 How the hell can you say that a bullet is designed to wound . If you shoot some body with a 9mm the chances are that you are going to kill them . How can you be sure that you dont hit a vital organ .Are you surgesting that law enforcement officers shoot for the legs or the arm just to wound somebody . I can assure you that they shoot to kill . Obviously you did not read my other post about muzzel velocity .The 9mm round exits the barrel at about 12 hundred feet per second ,that well in excess of the speed of sound which is about 750 feet per second . I have loaded thousands of rounds of 9mm ammo and do have an idea of what they are capable of . I think you are trying to wind us up . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 How the hell can you say that a bullet is designed to wound . If you shoot some body with a 9mm the chances are that you are going to kill them . How can you be sure that you dont hit a vital organ .Are you surgesting that law enforcement officers shoot for the legs or the arm just to wound somebody . I can assure you that they shoot to kill . Obviously you did not read my other post about muzzel velocity .The 9mm round exits the barrel at about 12 hundred feet per second ,that well in excess of the speed of sound which is about 750 feet per second . I have loaded thousands of rounds of 9mm ammo and do have an idea of what they are capable of . I think you are trying to wind us up . Harnser . speed of sound is actually ~1100fps, but otherwise carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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