338 Federal - FAIL!

[wannabefisher]

Tried to get a slot for a .338 Federal on my FAC, but got rejected because all .338s are lumped together as being suitable only for dangerous game. So the 338 Lapua with 5000ft lbs is the same in the eyes of the law as the 338 Federal with 3000ft lbs!!

 

I would have been allowed a 30-06 which has the same ballistics as the 338 Federal.

 

Anyway, I changed it to .308 and that has gone through successfully (probably a blessing in disguise)

 

Stupid laws!!!

[wannabefisher]

Did this suprise you?

 

yes

 

are you permanently in a bad mood or do you just enjoy never having a constructive input?

[Graham M]

Wannabe..............have a read through this-

http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/content/c...=NRA&id=462

G.M.

[wannabefisher]

Wannabe..............have a read through this-

http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/content/c...=NRA&id=462

G.M.

 

yup, i'm aware of that - AFAIK it wasn't designed with the 338 Federal in mind, but rather the 338 Lapua; a round with almost double the kinetic energy

 

whichever way you cut it, bullet diameter, kinetic energy, bullet weight, bullet velocity etc etc etc there are other rounds that you are allowed to have which exceed the .338 federal.

 

Is that not slightly odd?

[rarms]

tell them you would like to contest it then! ?Have some ballistic data and a good reason for having one and you have a good case.

[wannabefisher]

tell them you would like to contest it then! ?Have some ballistic data and a good reason for having one and you have a good case.

 

yup probably could, but it's not worth all the time and hassle to do it when I can (and did) get a .308 slot no trouble at all.

 

I didn't start this thread out of outrage that I couldn't get the calibre that I wanted, more as just pointing out a curiosity of the legal system that doesn't really make sense!

 

[Harnser]

Wannerbefisher ,

I am interested in why you are trying to get a .338 for stalking in this country .I used to use a .270 for stalking and bought it because i made several trips to canada and took it with me to hunt moose and the big mule deer with my cousins .several years ago i gave up the .270 and went for the .308( and without starting the best calibre thing again) because i thought the .270 to be to much gun for the british deer species and the .308 being the all round calibre . Is this a trend that seems to have passed by me in sleepy norfolk . Its all very interesting , am i missing out on some thing . Harnser .

[wannabefisher]

Wannerbefisher ,

I am interested in why you are trying to get a .338 for stalking in this country .I used to use a .270 for stalking and bought it because i made several trips to canada and took it with me to hunt moose and the big mule deer with my cousins .several years ago i gave up the .270 and went for the .308( and without starting the best calibre thing again) because i thought the .270 to be to much gun for the british deer species and the .308 being the all round calibre . Is this a trend that seems to have passed by me in sleepy norfolk . Its all very interesting , am i missing out on some thing . Harnser .

 

OK, here are my reasons - some of which are I think sensible, and some not so!

 

1) Like the idea of a larger slower bullet than a 308 for various reasons, one being meat damage, the other being slightly more energy with not much more recoil

 

2) Wanted something as far away from my 243 as I could get.

 

3) Not a massive fan of the 30-06, plus liked the idea of less recoil plus larger bullet

 

4) Wanted something different/unusual. See point 3 as to why I didn't want to go for a 30-06

 

5) Potentially want the gun for boar hunting on the continent

 

I accept that the 308 is a very very good all rounder, and can deal with point 5, which is why I accepted my FLO's offer to take that instead. However, the 308 doesn't satisfy points 1,2 and 4...

 

so there you go - basically it boils down to me not wanting to go with the crowd and get the common calibre. On the plus side of being turned down for it, the ammos is about 1/2 the price for the 308

[Harnser]

Thank you wannabefisher . Harnser .

[wannabefisher]

supply and demand I guess

 

my RFD can get 338 federal ammo for about £40 a box

[wannabefisher]

we probably aren't too far away from the £80 box of 308, but hopefully a few years left yet

[njc110381]

I guess that's just how it is. Have you tried pointing out the muzzle energy in relation to the calibre?

 

I've come to the conclusion that some of the firearms team have very little idea of what they're doing! The head is usually very good, but the office bods are often far from it! I applied for .375H&H to take to Canada, and to shoot Deer here. I was told I couldn't have it here as the guidelines say I can't, but I could have it for use abroad with solid ammo. What the guidelines actually say is that the calibre shouldn't be granted for Deer, but may have a secondary condition allowing Deer and expanding ammo use once the initial need (ie Bear in canada) has been proven. I've copied/pasted the relevent sections of the document and sent it to the head of dept, and hope now he knows where to look, he will do as the gudelines say (as he was so set on doing when he thought they said I couldn't have it!)

[wannabefisher]

I guess that's just how it is. Have you tried pointing out the muzzle energy in relation to the calibre?

 

yes, but I got a very odd reply;

 

"If I let you have a 338 on your FAC then you could go and get any 338 out there, not just the one you are talking about" [i had just been telling him that the guidelines were probably referring to a 338 WM]

 

I asked him if he could put 338 Federal on the FAC instead of just 338. The answer to that, rather bizarrely, was no.

 

The whole exchange did leave me wondering a bit whether he was a good person to be dealing with firearms as he didn't really seem to know anything about them other than what is in the Home Office guidelines document. Nice guy though!

[wannabefisher]

he also told me that I didn't need anything more than a 308 because he had "seen one being shot straight through a tree"

 

He is probably correct in his assumption, but the reasoning made me chuckle

[Alycidon]

Some people used to have .338 etc for 1000 yard target shooting, not sure if they still can after the MOD brought in power limits last year.

 

Generally .308/30.06 is a big as they allow us for stalking etc, I am aware that some people have been granted bigger calibers for larger/dangerous African game but they are not allowed to hold any ammo in the UK.

 

A

Edited September 13, 2008 by Alycidon

[rarms]

>Gernerally .308/30.06 is a big as they allow us for stalking etc, I am aware that some people have been granted bigger >calibers for larger/dangerous African game but they are not allowed to hold any ammo in the UK.

 

 

I know a man who has a .44mag on his ticket for fox, and I know of another chap with a 9.3x62 on his ticket for deer as well as use in africa.

[Alycidon]

He must have a very friendly force. I assume the 44mag is maybe a Ruger. My force removed a keepers .357 at the pistol ban that he had for tame park boar (head shot, very close) and gave him 12 bore lethal ball instead. Saw a video last year of a coyote felled with a .444 Marlin lever action, he did not move far at all !.

 

A

[Magus69]

The thing you have to do is prove and by prove I mean you have to give a perfectly valid reason to possess the calibre you want which cannot be argued against.

I like yourself a few years ago decided that I'd quite like a .375H&H I knew they wouldn't give me one for UK Deer as I already had a .308.

What I did was to find a company in France for Boar shooting who were more than happy (after booking) to provide me with a letter stating that the minimum calibre they would allow was .375H&H,I then applied for a one for one against the .308.

I was called by the firearms unit to say that they would grant me it for use on Boar abroad but I couldn't use it for Deer over here.

I immediately wrote back saying that their decision would force me into having yet another gun on the premises which I really didn't need as the .375H&H fulfilled all the requirements for a Deer rifle in this country,and that if I wasn't allowed the calibre for Deer over here then I would be appealing against their decision to the Magistrates court and citing those grounds.

I got it granted!!.

So if you were to do the same i.e. you would have to provide confirmation of booking and get them to provide a company headed letter stating .338 as a minimum then you have legitimate reason.

Magistrates are even more paranoid about gun ownership than the police so they would support you in an appeal if you have a calibre that is suited to the job of Deer(as Deer calibres are specified in minimums) and you feel worried about being forced to expand the amount of firearms you possess especially as the .338 is suited ballistically and is perfectly adequate for the job.

Mike...

[wannabefisher]

The thing you have to do is prove and by prove I mean you have to give a perfectly valid reason to possess the calibre you want which cannot be argued against.

I like yourself a few years ago decided that I'd quite like a .375H&H I knew they wouldn't give me one for UK Deer as I already had a .308.

What I did was to find a company in France for Boar shooting who were more than happy (after booking) to provide me with a letter stating that the minimum calibre they would allow was .375H&H,I then applied for a one for one against the .308.

I was called by the firearms unit to say that they would grant me it for use on Boar abroad but I couldn't use it for Deer over here.

I immediately wrote back saying that their decision would force me into having yet another gun on the premises which I really didn't need as the .375H&H fulfilled all the requirements for a Deer rifle in this country,and that if I wasn't allowed the calibre for Deer over here then I would be appealing against their decision to the Magistrates court and citing those grounds.

I got it granted!!.

So if you were to do the same i.e. you would have to provide confirmation of booking and get them to provide a company headed letter stating .338 as a minimum then you have legitimate reason.

Magistrates are even more paranoid about gun ownership than the police so they would support you in an appeal if you have a calibre that is suited to the job of Deer(as Deer calibres are specified in minimums) and you feel worried about being forced to expand the amount of firearms you possess especially as the .338 is suited ballistically and is perfectly adequate for the job.

Mike...

 

Interesting. Do you think there are any people who would tell m I need a 50BMG for shooting with them?

[al4x]

The thing you have to do is prove and by prove I mean you have to give a perfectly valid reason to possess the calibre you want which cannot be argued against.

I like yourself a few years ago decided that I'd quite like a .375H&H I knew they wouldn't give me one for UK Deer as I already had a .308.

What I did was to find a company in France for Boar shooting who were more than happy (after booking) to provide me with a letter stating that the minimum calibre they would allow was .375H&H,I then applied for a one for one against the .308.

I was called by the firearms unit to say that they would grant me it for use on Boar abroad but I couldn't use it for Deer over here.

I immediately wrote back saying that their decision would force me into having yet another gun on the premises which I really didn't need as the .375H&H fulfilled all the requirements for a Deer rifle in this country,and that if I wasn't allowed the calibre for Deer over here then I would be appealing against their decision to the Magistrates court and citing those grounds.

I got it granted!!.

So if you were to do the same i.e. you would have to provide confirmation of booking and get them to provide a company headed letter stating .338 as a minimum then you have legitimate reason.

Magistrates are even more paranoid about gun ownership than the police so they would support you in an appeal if you have a calibre that is suited to the job of Deer(as Deer calibres are specified in minimums) and you feel worried about being forced to expand the amount of firearms you possess especially as the .338 is suited ballistically and is perfectly adequate for the job.

Mike...

 

Interesting. Do you think there are any people who would tell m I need a 50BMG for shooting with them?

 

depends if you want a trip to Iraq to play with the fraternity who wear tea towels on their heads

[wannabefisher]

wow, congratulations on an interesting post fister

 

I would have liked to see a novice shooting a 300RUM as well!

 

Are there seriously people who have got 338 Lapuas on their certificates for shooting deer in Scotland? As much as I think it is a great calibre (and still have bruises on my shoulder to prove it), even I would think it is a bit OTT for here...?

[starlight32]

wow, congratulations on an interesting post fister

 

I would have liked to see a novice shooting a 300RUM as well!

 

Are there seriously people who have got 338 Lapuas on their certificates for shooting deer in Scotland? As much as I think it is a great calibre (and still have bruises on my shoulder to prove it), even I would think it is a bit OTT for here...?

 

I was under the impression the .338 was a little taboo as it fell under this new guise from firearms licensing as being 'Materiel destruction rifle'

 

There is a guy in my club who has a .50BMG and a Boys .55 AT and a .338 for overseas game. He has a little bother with them all as all three calibers are grouped under this home office blurp as being of a 'Specific caliber unsuitable for civilian use'

 

Don't quote me on these as this is as I have been told...Anyway at 7 quid for a 750 grain bullet a .50BMG Is the last thing I want

[njc110381]

I spoke to my firearms guy today. After a long chat he said that if I could provide evidence of shooting Stags in Devon (the biggest ones we have in the uk) then I could have the .375H&H for Deer.

 

I've got it with solids for zeroing, but when I'm back from Canada I will be sending a parcel with a nice bottle of whiskey to Devon. All I needed to know is what evidence they require to allow it, and then I can go about finding it

 

Funnily enough, it turns out my head of dept is quite a pro shooting type. The trouble is the chief isn't, so he can only do so much before his boss starts throwing the toys out of the pram

[Harnser]

I spoke to my firearms guy today. After a long chat he said that if I could provide evidence of shooting Stags in Devon (the biggest ones we have in the uk) then I could have the .375H&H for Deer.

 

I've got it with solids for zeroing, but when I'm back from Canada I will be sending a parcel with a nice bottle of whiskey to Devon. All I needed to know is what evidence they require to allow it, and then I can go about finding it

 

Funnily enough, it turns out my head of dept is quite a pro shooting type. The trouble is the chief isn't, so he can only do so much before his boss starts throwing the toys out of the pram

 

If you think you have big stags in devon ,you should see the size of the norfolk stags . They are now being trapped up by the locals to be used for pulling a plow . Harnser .

[njc110381]

I had no idea how big they were until I sat and watched some last year. They're huge animals!