Mungler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 More people die each year choking on Bic pen lids than die at the hands of terrorists in this Country. I don't see pen manufacturers liberties being infringed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet dodger Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Mungler, a fair point ,well made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 More people die each year choking on Bic pen lids than die at the hands of terrorists in this Country. I don't see pen manufacturers liberties being infringed. Mung I need proof or is this some plucky out the sky scare tactic to hasten my QHSE review of office practice and risk assesments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhh - Another BORING anti police thread.... Gents, a small point BUT, Its Parliment that make the laws & legislation - not the police...... So if your gonna have a go at least direct it at the right people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhh - Another BORING anti police thread.... Gents, a small point BUT, Its Parliment that make the laws & legislation - not the police...... So if your gonna have a go at least direct it at the right people. Where has anyone here knocked the police? You couldn't meet a more law obiding bunch of people or forum. This is about protecting civil liberties and yes that means government and the powers devolved to the police. Have a another read eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) The civil liberties that have been eroded under "new labour " on the pretext of a fear culture are extensive and the most dangerous law introduced is SOCPA.Serious Organised Crime and Police Act, which allows police to arrest you for no reason. If you are unfortunate enough to be arrested and politely ask why, the police cannot tell you for " security reasons " !!!! I can highly recommend the book " Taking Liberties " by Chris Atkins as a sobering but amusing read. The scale of this government's paranoia is beyond belief. If this post reaches whitehall you may never hear from me again. Go one then....give an example.....I reckon I'll be waiting a long time.....arrest for no reason whatsoever.....completely different to arrest for A REASON and then release (NFA/not proceded with etc).....don't blame the GOVN for paranoia...it's your paranoia that creates commetns such as yours.....scenario.....person walking along street arrested for no reason whatsoever.....taken to police stn.....SGT....what's this person here for.....Arresting Officer....no reason Serge just thought I'd arrest him because I don't need any reason whatsoever.....SGT....OK son, please escort this person out of the custody suite and leave your warrant card at the door(if you're lucky.....you may even do a bit of time yourself if you are shown to be so corrupt as to arrest anyone for no reason whatsoever). Moral of the story......STOP BEING SO ******** NAIVE Edited February 17, 2009 by death from below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet dodger Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I dont profess to have an example, I merely pointed out the scope and power the police have under SOCPA. If you HONESTLY think this government is not paranoid then I genuinely believe its you that is ******* Naive. You a copper by any chance ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Bullet Dodger - I just had a good look at SOCPA and can't find the bit where it says 'A constable may arrest a person for any reason they like or no reason whatsoever should the mood take them'. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I dont profess to have an example, I merely pointed out the scope and power the police have under SOCPA. If you HONESTLY think this government is not paranoid then I genuinely believe its you that is ******* Naive. You a copper by any chance ? Again nothing but rhetoric.....paranoid Govenrment.....what do you mean...... paranoid about commuters being slaughtered on tubes whilst going about their daily 'lawful' business. Please define paranoid for me as maybe I am naive....I believe the Gverning bodies have good reason to be restless about terrorism......but SOCPA as the almighty sword of breaching civil liberties I don't think so...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet dodger Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I dont suppose for a minute you will find it . The government would not actually write something like that down. In this country many people still believe we have freedom of speech. Within the scope of SOCPA you can be arrested for a spontaneous verbal protest outside parliament , no reason in my book. I am not knocking the police service here , they didnt want many of the laws that have been passed , I was just pointing out that many of the civil liberties we once took for granted no longer exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Interesting bit in the news today from Dame Stella Rimington the ex head of MI5. The summary of her thoughts being: 1. we as a nation appear to be prepared to accept the never ending curtailment of our civil liberties all because of a perceived terrorist threat. I believe her exact words were that the government and police are 'exploiting' the threat of terrorism to curtail civil liberties. 2. the Yanks over stepped the mark with Guantánamo Bay As I have said before, the writing was on the wall when the 80 year old Walter Wolfgang a full on lifetime card carrying member of the labour party tried to heckle the speaker at a labour party conference (as was his democratic right) and was then immediately detained by the police under anti terror legislation. The arresting copper couldn't think of what the 80 year was doing wrong so dipped into the wide all encompassing anti terror bag of powers available to the police. Take it a stage further. What if he wasn't quite so obviously an elderly labour party supporter who was no security threat? Well, if you were young and had a funny hair do / beard / surname, then under this illustrious labour government they would want to be able to hold you for 28 days without formal charge. Someone was saying if you have nothing to fear then you should not fear..... naive ********. You don't suddenly wake up one day under a regime like Nazi Germany, it takes a little time. Drip drip drip there go the civil liberties and once they are gone, they are gone for good. Bullet Dodger,,, is this not an example?. Death From Below and Newsportshooter,,, did poor old Walter deserve to be arrested under anti terrorist leglislation? This made media headlines,how many more incidents dont? We are not heading for a police state we are already in one. BIG BROTHER RULES....OK. Pat Edited February 17, 2009 by pat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Fair comment. I can accept your reasoning when you personalise it, ie your thoughts on this and that. I do take abridge to generalisations that have been made but I suppose we are all guilty of that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Walter was not arrested by the police....he was man handled by out of order security gaurds and chucked out. As for good old stellar.....don't forget she is in the business of selling crappy crime fiction nowadays and loves to crank up the stakes in order to flog a few more paperbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Wolfgang attended the 2005 Labour Party conference as a visitor and sat in the part of the hall reserved for visitors, which is at the back. During a speech by the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, in response to Straw's comment that "We are in Iraq for one reason only: to help the elected Iraqi government build a secure, democratic and stable nation", Wolfgang shouted "Nonsense!". Some witnesses claimed he then may have added "That's a lie and you know it!" and/or "Pack of lies!". In full view of the television cameras, much larger Conference stewards, who were on alert for any attempts to disrupt the speech, then physically picked up and forcibly removed the frail-looking, diminutive elderly man and confiscated his security pass. Erith and Thamesmead Constituency Labour Party chairman Steve Forrest, who was sitting nearby, was also removed (more forcibly) for voicing his objections to Wolfgang's treatment. When Wolfgang attempted to re-enter the conference later the same day, his pass showed that he had been removed previously, and he was briefly held by police under section 44 of the Terrorism Act. The grey with the anti terror legislation is the blurring around the edges of arrest, detention and charge. Does being held under S44 amount to arrest? I reckon so. If it's big, grey, got flappy ears and a trunk it's an elephant despite what anyone else wants to call or pretend it is. Just shows though this anti terror stuff is a nice "catch all" when all else fails. There was another prominent one - I shall be right back with the link Aside from the anti terror stuff the ability to protest is now severely limited. Granted, protesting was always for the great unwashed but I fancy getting a bit French in my old age and getting on with some decent protesting and sheep burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 An example, was this guy a terrorist? Nial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Isn't it amazing what you can get away with by using the "terrorism act" all the time, and, wasn't that the reason they brought it in in the first place? meanwhile, we are creating "real terrorists" , every day of the year by supporting the US and their pals (Israel) THis world never seizes to amaze me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Aside from the anti terror stuff the ability to protest is now severely limited. Granted, protesting was always for the great unwashed but I fancy getting a bit French in my old age and getting on with some decent protesting and sheep burning. We are not allowed to protest within something like 500m of parliament withought written police permission now. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 An example, was this guy a terrorist? Nial That's from the Telegraph and a frightening read. And read it all we should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Another one, innocent in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 To be fair to Sussex Police someone could recieve a very nasty paper cut from the ID card the bloke is carrying.....it's huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 That's from the Telegraph and a frightening read. And read it all we should. But don't worry, as long as you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to fear. Nial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Who ever would have thought this, Just shows what rights you dont have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Fair comment. I can accept your reasoning when you personalise it, ie your thoughts on this and that. I do take abridge to generalisations that have been made but I suppose we are all guilty of that...... At least your man enough to admit it. Walter was not arrested by the police....he was man handled by out of order security gaurds and chucked out. Was he not eventually arrested ?.The day of Police thinking on their feed appears to be gone.I have no doubt that the older generation of cop generally are much better at their job than the new college educated upstarts who when they get a few shiny buttons and a truncheon take on a completly new persona.I have had family members in the police and they would squirm at some of the antics of these young cowboys,and I am talking of men who policed in really difficult times.Throughout the troubles in this country you could still have a civil conversation with a policeman and crack a few jokes,now if you dont call them sir you are treated like scum. At least that is the feeling I get and I"M not a young lad about town any more.When these young people are being trained I fear that being civil to the community that they SERVE is not on the agenda. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilstoat Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I have been banging on about civil liberties for ages since the smoking ban, this gets worse, i woke bolt upright in bed the other night, i thought that the uk had been turned into Equalibrium this is what will happen eventually, the sad thing is that we have been conditioned over the years to conform and not to speak up when something seems wrong, we have to confirm to fit into society, otherwise we are afraid we are either misfits, or anti-social Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 More misuse of anti-terror laws, from the Telegraph again. And from the Sunday Helald. And the Times Online. Big brother is watching us. But I'm not paranoid Nial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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