raistrick Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi All, I'm looking to get learning Skeet properly and improve. I've been taught for a few weeks now on shooting it gun down and how the layout works. I'm now looking to get down there and improve either on my own or with a couple of club members. - What would you recommend doing? 25 practice on a selected couple of stands then a proper 25 round? Switching stands to practice on each week? - Any other tips on improving? I've been told loads of things like not to move my feet between pairs, but found that since you're standing in a square you should be able to replicate this every time anyway, shouldn't you? Also been told mixed reports about mounting, from dropping the whole gun down as i wind back to just the back, keeping the barrels up on the path of the bird - preferences or improvements? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 If you want to get good at skeet I would scrap shooting it gun down and start practicing gun up. If you watch the top skeet shooters in action, there are barely any that shoot gun down. You are looking for perfect scores at skeet and the odd mismount of the gun will cost you. Foot position is important, set yourself up with your leading foot pointing where you are going to break the clay, changing you foot position between singles will help you no end and stop you twisting and stretching for the second bird. Set yourself up somewhere in between for the pairs. Don't get hung up over shooting the clay over the peg. You'll make it much easier by shooting it just after - try to shoot singles in the same place as you would as a pair. This will get your sight pictures sorted and make life much easier. Don't bring your gun too far back to the trap house when you call pull, you will find that you are either struggling to catch up with it or rushing through it and missing in front. I hope this is of some help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I presume you've read and watched everything that Todd Bender has produced? If not, that's a good place to start. Skeet is actually quite easy, and a lot of of people probably think too hard or over analyse the birds. Stations 1 and 7 should be very straight forward indeed, likewise 2 and 6 almost as straight forward. Instead spend your practice money on stands 3 - 5. You should position yourself to shoot all birds by the centre pin. Don't let them go past it, either shoot them over the pin, or before it, this'll give you plenty of time for the 2nd bird of a pair and also drum into you a good instintive swing and mount. The lead required increases from 0 feet to 4 feet by stand 4. The height and speed are the same all the time. Once Todd has told you where to hold your barrels, and where to look, the rest is easy, as long as your mount and gun fit is good. Edited March 17, 2009 by Peter De La Mare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 having read both the above replys i have to stick with the first off paulos. if your relativly new to shooting there is no point rushing to shoot the clay before centre, take your time. pesonaly i dont think i shoot any before centre other than low 7. learn to slow down your gun movement more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Cheers for replies! I'm really not that new, I shoot gun down for sporting. Been shooting pretty regularly for 2 years now. Finally got my own gun that fits and short of sticking proper skeet chokes in (Cylinder and IC for now) I'm ready to learn properly. Don't you have to shoot gun down in Olympic or ISU skeet? I'm hitting doubles on each stand (not consistently) gun down at the moment, so I'd be keen to get into the correct habit. Definitely need to spend a lot of time on 3 and 5! Sounds like there's a great variety in the ways people approach learning skeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 find yourself a registered 100 birder and go and watch, you'll soon find out who are the boys to watch and if you get a chance ask them how they do it (at the end not during) and if youre really lucky you might get squaded with one, i used to shoot a fair bit of skeet and was told by an instructor, stations 2-6 a r/h shooter should stand on the square and face the low house and your feet will be right for singles and pairs (reverse for a l/h shot), shoot gun up hold the gun 1/2 way between the trap house and the middle peg, just lift your head to see the bird as you see the bird start to swing and push your face into the stock always staying ahead of the bird mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Stations 1 and 7 should be very straight forward indeed, likewise 2 and 6 almost as straight forward. Instead spend your practice money on stands 3 - 5. I actually find the high bird from station 1 incredibly difficult! I think its mostly psychological as I know it should be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I actually find the high bird from station 1 incredibly difficult! I think its mostly psychological as I know it should be easy. Ditto, but I always put it down to poor gun mount. Will ask if i'm having trouble after I've used my new gun. find yourself a registered 100 birder and go and watch How would I start doing that? Any website links? Cheers! Edited March 17, 2009 by raistrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It would help if we knew where you are - fill in your profile. There are some cracking skeet coaches around, and if we knew your locale, we could direct you to the right local man. You need to decide if you are an Oly skeet or an Eng skeet man, ----they are Sooooo different. The techniques are substantially different, gun up - gun down, delay or instant, target speed, sequence, etc etc You will need to learn and concentrate on one or the other - which ever you do do, tends to muck up the other - its always interesting to see OS ( the more difficult one in theory) shooters totally mucking up supposedly easier ESK. With everything, there are more than one school of thought. Things like foot position in stations. I was taught by John Topliss, once National Champion - and in the 60s the routine was to optimise your angle on each target and change foot position for each single and the doubles. Today, the fashion is for a single fixed position - but its naive to suggest one is right and the other wrong. The one thats right for you is the one that works. Similarly, most teach ESK stn 1 as a high muzzle hold and bring the gun down to shoot below - but some Senior Skeet coaches advocate starting low and bringing the gun up to ambush (contra swing). The truth is, all methods are correct for certain individuals, and you need to try them all and find the ones that work best for you. One tip - ditch 28g carts and shoot 24g - watch your scores improve! Why? Less recoil, less fatigue means a better ability to concentrate on actually putting the shot load accurately in the right place. Ask about, you will find a significant number of high scoring skeet shooters have found that they perform better with light 24g loads that don't knock them about. I use 24g HVE Express 8s and put regular straights away with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Cheers for replies! I'm really not that new, I shoot gun down for sporting. Been shooting pretty regularly for 2 years now. Finally got my own gun that fits and short of sticking proper skeet chokes in (Cylinder and IC for now) I'm ready to learn properly. Don't you have to shoot gun down in Olympic or ISU skeet? I'm hitting doubles on each stand (not consistently) gun down at the moment, so I'd be keen to get into the correct habit. Definitely need to spend a lot of time on 3 and 5! Sounds like there's a great variety in the ways people approach learning skeet There's a lot of good advice on here, and you're correct in saying people approach skeet in different ways. Practice different methods and find which suits you best. The basics are pretty similar ie. hold points, pick up points, kill points, but be prepared to adjust as necessary. The background can affect where you first pick up the bird, so be prepared for that when shooting different grounds. Also the wind can play a big part in how the birds fly, a strong left to right wind can push the high bird quite fast and flat whilst holding up the low bird, again be prepared and think about any adjustments before going on the stand. As mentioned, watch good skeet shots and speak to them, most will be happy to help. By all means practice 3 and 5 if they are your bogey birds, but don't forget to practice the others too. Every bird's easy until you miss!! Most people will tell you skeet birds are easy, and in theory they are. However to get anywhere in the sport you need to be able to hit 100/100 and that's not easy. Set yourself acheivable targets and work on it step by step. If you can hit 25/25 then in THEORY your 100 straight shouldn't be too long coming, you can do the physical bit but then the mental part comes into play. You have to give EVERY bird 110% concentration, because although they're all easy in theory, in practice it's a different matter!! Good luck with it, keep us updated as to how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Cool. Well decision on format Olympic Skeet. I just enjoy shooting gun down far more and if it's good enough for the Olympics, it's good enough for me. It would help if we knew where you are - fill in your profile. One tip - ditch 28g carts and shoot 24g - watch your scores improve! Why? Less recoil, less fatigue means a better ability to concentrate on actually putting the shot load accurately in the right place. Ask about, you will find a significant number of high scoring skeet shooters have found that they perform better with light 24g loads that don't knock them about. I use 24g HVE Express 8s and put regular straights away with them. Details filled in. What about 21g cartridges? Is that just not enough shot in the air? (a ground I could shoot at regularly offers them, considerably cheaper) What about steel shot for skeet?? Edited March 17, 2009 by raistrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) There's nothing to stop you shooting ESK gun down. I do. You'll probably find ESK more accessable, check out the CPSA website for local grounds, and fill your boots! 21g would be fine on skeet birds, and as long as the ground allows, steel no problem either. Edited March 17, 2009 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ordered the book Mastering Skeet (xmas gift voucher still unused), will probably have to read up on the differences. Perhaps it's a matter of shooting whatever I can get into competitively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Use 9s for skeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 If it's competition you want, try both and see what suits you best, but once you decide, as Clayman has said, stick with it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfa taf Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Cheers for replies! I'm really not that new, I shoot gun down for sporting. Been shooting pretty regularly for 2 years now. Finally got my own gun that fits and short of sticking proper skeet chokes in (Cylinder and IC for now) I'm ready to learn properly. Don't you have to shoot gun down in Olympic or ISU skeet? I'm hitting doubles on each stand (not consistently) gun down at the moment, so I'd be keen to get into the correct habit. Definitely need to spend a lot of time on 3 and 5! Sounds like there's a great variety in the ways people approach learning skeet You,ve got the right idea keep on shooting Gun Down not only it,s the way Olympic is shot but it,s the best excersise for Rough Shooting or Pigeon Shooting.After all nobody is waiting for birds to come in range with Gun up.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 You,ve got the right idea keep on shooting Gun Down not only it,s the way Olympic is shot but it,s the best excersise for Rough Shooting or Pigeon Shooting.After all nobody is waiting for birds to come in range with Gun up.!!! If you are shooting olympic then yes, gun down. But like clayman says - it involves an all round change in technique. In regards to english skeet, it is all about shooting perfect scores. Practice for pigeon or rough shooting is neither here nor there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) What about 21g cartridges? Is that just not enough shot in the air? What about steel shot for skeet?? 21g is plenty, NASA Skeet shoots 25 12g; 25 20g; 25 28g; and 25 410. The latter will use 21g or less, and the best at this discipline usually shoot str on all the gauges down to 410, and the competition is decided on the lightest gauge. What a good skeet shooter with 14g 410 or 28g carts, they have no problem. You might want to tighten chokes for a light load, just to get the density. Gun down: there is a big difference between ESK gun down and O/S gun down. The latter is in a place that increases the difficulty deliberately, don't do this unless O/S is what you intend to follow and apply the rules. ESK gun down, it is sufficient to push the gun away and down, but flat to the flight line ( not tipped as in O/S). The reason is that it gets the gun moving quicker, is less fatiquing, and gives a clearer target pick up - a short mount that is the reverse of a dry mount and swing back from the shooting area will almost always be error free. You are not allowed to dry mount and swing back in O/S ( small exceptions, but 90% you cant), you have to have the skill to have perfect ready positions without reverse muscle memory to help. Don't just go on the stand with the gun down loose, call and swing. Always set your feet, fully mount in the kill zone, and wind back gently pushing away and down. Fix the gun at the optimum gun hold position, usually about 1/3 on the flight line to break point, and look back for the target. When it appears smoothly get the gun moving and as it hits the shoulder you should be aiming at you chosen sight picture ( either the target on the bead and pull away for lead, in front for maintained lead, or just behind for progressive swing through under control - note, this is not fast swing through / smoke trail etc which is not suitable for skeet high scored - only god for corporate days and game shooting aka Churchill method). Always shoot you singles the same as in the pair, don't learn 25 shots, learn 14. Shoot to bank the first one, second is the bonus - rush the first and miss 'em both! Best of Luck Edited March 21, 2009 by clayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langlands Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 This is a good reference. http://www.casctp.org/BenderCheatSheet.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 This is a good reference. http://www.casctp.org/BenderCheatSheet.pdf Awesome, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langlands Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Just found this on Olympic Skeet. http://www.issf-shooting.org/theissf/acade...oaching/en.ashx If this guy was an American he would have wrote two books and a DVD on this, instead he put it all in 37 pages. I suggest that you click on the button on the bottom of the eBook that says "Open as PDF" and save to your hard drive; it's a lot easier to zoom in and read in PDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 After all nobody is waiting for birds to come in range with Gun up.!!! Clay shooting doesn't have anything to do with shooting game. Why do people keep making ridiculous comparisons like this? Clay shooting is a competitive sport, shooting game is not. The gun up/gun down argument cannot be connected to game shooting, it is not the same thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Clay shooting doesn't have anything to do with shooting game. Why do people keep making ridiculous comparisons like this? Clay shooting is a competitive sport, shooting game is not. The gun up/gun down argument cannot be connected to game shooting, it is not the same thing at all. here here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Clay shooting doesn't have anything to do with shooting game. Why do people keep making ridiculous comparisons like this? Clay shooting is a competitive sport, shooting game is not. The gun up/gun down argument cannot be connected to game shooting, it is not the same thing at all. I agree... There's a few things like that which crop up now and again. I get uncomfortable (for want of a better word) when people use the term "weapon" instead of shotgun (has happened at a few clay shoots I've been to). Always seems odd to me, I don't ever think about my shotgun having been designed as a weapon. Cheers for the pdf link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinbox99 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Ive never been trained by anyone at shooting skeet, so I just learnt by trial / error. The biggest things I learnt was 1) the stance (i stand leaning forward slightly), 2) i stand in a nice comfortable position for where i aim to shoot the clay, then move my gun back to the relevant tower. 3) i follow the line of the clay with the gun, moving in front of it before shooting when i reach the right position. 4) shoot at the right distance in front of the bird - my biggest mistake is not giving the middle birds enough leed. 5) and by far the biggest thing i found was to relax!!! dont worry or think about the shot, just do it. I find if i think, i end up either shooting too quick or too late. I used to do a lot of skeet many years back and only got back into it a few months back. First time down the ground in 3 years and i got 20/25 and a 24/25. Sometimes I use gun down for a session, other times i use gun up depending on how i feel and what gun im using. If im using a semi then im not too worried about my mount. If its an o/u then I tend to shoot with the gun up. If i miss a particular shot, like on my 20/25 i missed the middle peg double, then id go back after that round and just try that peg again, just to make sure i know i can actually hit them. Else, on the next round you have added pressure that you know you missed them last time! Sporting clays is another ball-game, and i use gun down as like shooting real pigeons, you have no idea where they are coming from and in all fairness im nowhere near as good. (60% hit rate). I tend to use 8 or 9`s for skeet, 28g. Ive tried 24g`s in the past with sucess too, especially in my semi. Edited May 5, 2009 by jackinbox99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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