Ozzy Fudd Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Sorry, my post not clear- Yes occupier exemption is much the same, just council caution about handing a Sec 1 to anyone and relying on the 'gunbearer' exemption in Sect 8. Maybe I am spooking at shadows! David dont know if mainland is different but if you look at my previous posts about the ni laws its the same for a rifle as a shotgun (except for rifle you can also you it if an employee of the occupier is present, so its a bit more relaxed) edit - just thought id stick this in, ripped from the ni law (dont know if mainland is different or not) Rifles 10. - (1) A person may, without holding a firearm certificate, borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the presence of the occupier or an employee of the occupier if - (a) the occupier or employee in whose presence the rifle is used holds a firearm certificate for it; and ( the borrower's possession and use of it complies with any conditions as to those matters in the certificate. Edited March 20, 2009 by babbyc1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Sorry, my post not clear- Yes occupier exemption is much the same, just council caution about handing a Sec 1 to anyone and relying on the 'gunbearer' exemption in Sect 8. Maybe I am spooking at shadows! David its a difficult one in this litigious society in which we live, because of the way its written you can't say anything else really. However back in the real internet world its easier to say what does go on and how the interpretation of the law could work for both sides and how arguing technicalities in court very very rarely happens. So rarely that this occurrence which is an every day one on a lot of shoots has never been tested, and whether it would be in the public interest to waste money doing so is another. It is a shame though if official policy does put up a barrier to people trying rough shooting. You'd have to get pulled on the issue by an officer who knew the law and that is very rare, I've educated a few mates who are policemen on laws after they've attended incidents and haven't the first idea about guns and the applicable laws, this even extends to taking an SO19 officer claying to be asked are you allowed to have that when I produced a semi auto Yes these guys police the laws but they don't know every one in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 A very good point Alx, And yet again you are spot on, to the best of my knowledge this bit of the Act has never ben tested! It is more likely for the officer who comes across you to err on the side of caution though bourn out of ignorance and either: a) Confiscate the guns, just in case, and then make you go down the nick with him and sort it all out with someone who knows about firearms law at the station (so you could be there some time!) If you make a fuss, arrest you and then do (a) c) Call in SO19 and a helicopter! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 from experience they do this anyway whether you're a certificate holder or not and obeying all the rules Personally I think it would only get tested if there was an accident but is there even an offence of letting someone use your gun while you're not the occupier or how would it be treated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Based on my 13-14 years of looking after the insurance at BASC I have never yet known a shooting accident be vigorously investigated by the police, they tend to accept that there was no malice or intent to injure / cause damage, and I have never known the police get involved to the extent of asking to see certificates. A few incidents where the police were involved that do spring to mind though are: 1) A BASC member was pheasant shooting, the stands ran along the base of a disused railway embankment, as a pheasant flew towards peg 1 he fired and hit a chap who at that very moment came into the line of fire at the top of the embankment. The chap was an off duty police officer out for a walk– who got very grumpy about the whole thing! BUT the police did not get involved as it was a civil matter. 2) Two pigeon shooters, one shot the other by accident, the guy that was shot died 20 hours later. Police got involved to investigate, confirmed it was a civil matter – not further involvement. 3) A lady beater got peppered by shot, ambulance called to take her to hospital – (not seriously hurt buy the way) Ambulance crew called in that they were brining in a gunshot victim, ambulance met by the police at the hospital – found out is was a shooting accident as opposed to some gangland hit and left. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Like much of the gun laws it’s open to interpretation BUT you can bet your sweet **** that should you have any kind of mishap then your insurance company are going to find any way NOT to pay out. I.e. leave you holding the can! or in it! You've been warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Regarding the "Taking non licence holders shooting with you" ...... I had my visit from the FEO on wed and the policy he said that northumbria police had was "you had to be shooting with the landowner present, on the landowners land and using the landowners gun" and that was the only way a non SGC holder could shoot a shotgun (apart from clay grounds). (sorry my reply is a little late but thought this might keep people on the right side of the law in the Northumbria Police region.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony9r Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Every so often I take my 13 year old lad with me to shoot at the farm I have permission on, and he'll use one of my shotguns (the farmer knows this)... after reading this topic, I should stop letting him shoot as I didn't realise it was breaking the law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Every so often I take my 13 year old lad with me to shoot at the farm I have permission on, and he'll use one of my shotguns (the farmer knows this)... after reading this topic, I should stop letting him shoot as I didn't realise it was breaking the law! :( I think it would be better for you to ring your FEO as it seems every force has different views on this matter, better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 the feo can only give you his interpretation of the law, read the full topics to see what we found out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 i read somewhere a non cert holder could only be given a shotty from the owner/farmer to shoot on his land and he had to be in full veiw of the farmer at all times .maybe just hearsay ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 wish people would read all the posts on a thread david basc posted this on page 3 (get your mind ou of the gutter!!) from the firearms law From the Act: Section 11 (5) of the Firearms Act 1968 provides that: A person who does not possess a shotgun certificate may borrow a gun from the occupier of private premises, and use it on those premises in the occupier's presence. (Section 57(4) provides that premises shall include land). From Leicester Constabulary Web site: Section 11(5) of the Firearms Act 1968, allows you, without holding a shotgun certificate, to use a shotgun when you are accompanied by the occupier of the land (landowner or holder of sole shooting rights) to shoot on his land using a shotgun borrowed from the occupier. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 My force told me that I can only let someone else use my guns if I have a lease or similar formal agreement on the ground. Just having permission to shoot doesn't count, written or not I'd say that if I have permission in writing that is a formal agreement, but my opinion counts for nothing in court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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