dr_nick Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I am not new to shooting but I am to hunting. I have a couple of questions relating to FAC air rifles and where you can shoot them. Firstly I belong to a rifle club and have Basa insurance, I live in the county and I am sure I can get permission to shoot on various farms (there are hundreds around where I live). I want to get an fac rated rifle probably a BSA Hornet ot Logun s-16. When I apply for the cert do I have to list everywhere I want to shoot? If I get permission to shoot at another farm do I then have to declare this on the cert (at extra cost)? If you do, then how do professional pest controllers do it? Finally the school I work for has problems with crows and seaguls that would benifit from the extra power of an fac rifle. Could I use the FAC rifle there (with the schols permission) or do I need to list it on the application (I doubt that it would be approved if this is the case). Sorry lots of questions, but the guys at the club are very much of the we shoot targets brigade. When they saw my stealth 2000 half of them thought I needed an fac even though it's under the 12ftlb limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 hi and welcome to the board im by no means an expert on FAC rules and regs but can share a biut of my wisdom until someoen a little more knowing shows up firstly when you aply for your FAC you should have land to shoot on or have been a member of a FAC rated club usually for a minimum of 6 months. if you have permision to shoot on land, the FLO will want to come out and inspect the land to ensure that any FAC rated rifle you want can be used safly on there. So if you put only one peice of land on there you will only be able to use the FAC rated rifle on that one piece of land if you use it any where that is not listed on your FAC this would be a definayte no no. you were right if you add mopre places to shoot to your FAC you will have to pay to have it updated. not too sure how the police would feel about FAC rated air rifles (or any rifle) being used on or near school property regardless of what the school say. If you think back a few years you might be able to work out the reasons why. The way professional pest controllers are able to use thier FAC on any land they are needed on is they have soimehting that is called an "open ticket" where they have the discretion of being able to judge if the land is suitable for FAC use or normal power air rifles. with regards to the rifle chouice you have i have known someone with a S16 and they have said it is one of the worst rifles they have ever used not due to the accuracy buyt because of the cocking mechanism. As well as it being one of the heaviest non FT rifles i have held. The hornet in my opionion is the better of the two rifles. But also another one to have a good think about would be an uprated air arms S410 i have had a few shots of a 24F/lbs on mates land and must say it was one of the nicest rifles i have ever used. His one was the tawnado stocked version but basically the same as an off the shelf S410. Have you thought about uprating the stealth? they are one hell of a nice gun once you get above the 18F/lb mark as well as giving a good few shots per charge and once you have the silenceer adaptor to enable a logun (or similar) it does bring the noise levels down as well, though still not as quiet as some rifles you can get. hope this helps you out a little and when you do go for the FAC let us know how you get on and any problems you have should always be someone about to help you out all the best ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hill billy Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 This may have been covered before but here it goes you will have to state a few bits of land with permission slips signed by the land owner (this is just to make sure you have some land to use it on and don't intend on just going any were), unless the land has been proofed for any such caliber of gun then the fire arms officer will reveiw the land to check it is safe, i have an open fac meaning i can go any were i want with my rifle using my judgment to insure the land is fit to fire such weapon over along with the land owners permission ( it is not conpulsoray to have written permission but i would very strongly sudgest you get it so the land owner can not say they did not let you onto the land) To be totally honest land owners have very limeted knolege of fac air rifles so when talking to them about shooting permission as soon as they hear the word airgun then they feel they no longer have to worry about you causing any large amount of damage so make sure to fill them in on the capabilities of your gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) I am not new to shooting but I am to hunting. I have a couple of questions relating to FAC air rifles and where you can shoot them. Firstly I belong to a rifle club and have Basa insurance, I live in the county and I am sure I can get permission to shoot on various farms (there are hundreds around where I live). I want to get an fac rated rifle probably a BSA Hornet ot Logun s-16. When I apply for the cert do I have to list everywhere I want to shoot? If I get permission to shoot at another farm do I then have to declare this on the cert (at extra cost)? If you do, then how do professional pest controllers do it? Finally the school I work for has problems with crows and seaguls that would benifit from the extra power of an fac rifle. Could I use the FAC rifle there (with the schols permission) or do I need to list it on the application (I doubt that it would be approved if this is the case). Sorry lots of questions, but the guys at the club are very much of the we shoot targets brigade. When they saw my stealth 2000 half of them thought I needed an fac even though it's under the 12ftlb limit. Hi I applied for an FAC 2 years ago for a theoben at 26ftlbs i had permission on some land to use it the police went to the farmer and checked out that i had permission and that the land was safe for FAC use. This farm was listed on my ticket. i also had shooting on 3 other farms but i stuck to using 12ftlbs on them rather than have the police going and checking every piece of land i shoot . I did get them to check my local golf club where i do quite a bit of crow and rabbit shooting they oked it no problem. Last year i got interested in rimfire rifles and when i applied for a .22 and .17hmr to be put on my ticket it came back open when i checked with my local FAC officer he told my i could use them on any land that i thought was safe and had written permission to shoot . the moral of the story is get your ticket and after a few months apply for an extention to add other rifles on and there is a chance it could come back open and save you having to list every where you shoot good luck ?:lol:? PS. my FAC took 4weeks to get i have applied for a shotgun cert up to now taken 7 weeks, but had call today they want to come monday to check security not before bloody time. Edited March 18, 2005 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coney hunter Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 They checked my security on the second week of applying for a shotgun cert, which wasn’t bat I thought but then told me that it would be another 6-8 weeks till I actually get it WHY? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hill billy Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 I was very suprised my fire arms came through in four weeks and there was a slight delay because the fao had not taken enough money to have my sgc as coterminus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 In Avon & Somerset non-open certificates simply say that the land has to have been approved by the Police for whatever type or calibre of firearm. So if I get some new land I simply send a form in signed by the landowner, no variation is needed, the police check whether or not that land is already on the database of approved land, and if not, will come & inspect it with me. I am hoping for an open cert next time around though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_nick Posted March 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Well thank you for the advice, it seems that the police just want to see if you are sensible or not. It certainly sounds like that if you get more than one landowner to think you are sensible enough to shoot on their land then the police are happy. When I started to shoot again I was initially very put off by the severe penalties associated with ANY firearms violation. I know the guys at the club are very much concerned with not getting into any trouble with the police, and rightly so. Well I have my BASA Insurance taken care of. I'm going to print out the Pest control license and a couple of shooting permission agreements and try a couple of Farms around here. At least if I have the paper work sorted then they might be willing to let me shoot. BTW as for the stealth, I did think about upgrading it. One thing worried me. If it’s registered as an FAC then what happens if im using it with the old 12ftlb bottle (the restriction is on the bottle) instead of the FAC supply? Is it then legal? Or would it be taken away for testing? As far as I am aware its the only gun that can be changed from a normal airgun to an fac within 15 seconds just by swapping the bottle over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pike Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Just to add my experience with the Met police, You will need a named piece of land when you initially apply. this should get you your initial ticket which will say something along the lines of "land deamed suitable by the chief officer" - which means the bit of land they have checked, or any other land on their books which has been checked in the past. If you can demonstrate over a period of time that you regularly shoot without incident and that you know what you are talking about they should then consider you for an 'Open'. This is usually on the five year renewal on the Met but if you can prove that you know your onions they may make an exception earlier if you ask them nicely (as they very kindly did for me). Pike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Dr Nick... You have been provided with some very sound advice from the members and all I would add is that you get to know and ask advice from your Local Fire Arms Liason Officer. You will find that they are generally only too pleased to help. Mine has certainly been invaluable in recent years and opened a few doors for me also. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_nick Posted March 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Dr Nick... You have been provided with some very sound advice from the members and all I would add is that you get to know and ask advice from your Local Fire Arms Liason Officer. You will find that they are generally only too pleased to help. Mine has certainly been invaluable in recent years and opened a few doors for me also. FM. Now that sounds like a good idea. I didn't think about contacting him. I will approach a few farmers within the next two weeks and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hi Nick, as for un uprated FAC stealth that used to be sub 12F/lbs i think you may find its a one way ticket for any rifle that is upgraded to section 1 firearms, though i know it is possible in some counties to have it taken off ticket, but in other counties the rifle may well still be classed as an FAC rifle. so with that in mind having two rifles may be the path to go down. some counties they may be happy for you to have a variable power rifle such as a Carrer 707 set on 30F/lbs for land that has been passed and 12F/lbs for land that is not passed. but i would have to recomend you er on the side of caution and have two different rifles for variouse shooting rights, not only does it keep you well and truly within the law but it also saves messing about with power settings as well as changing the zero on the scope ewverytime you go to a different field. and as has been said before fone the FLO up they really are a decent bunch and help you all they can. Have heard many stories about them at the club and not a single story was bad. hope this helps you out a little ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_nick Posted March 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 That makes sense. On the stealth the bottles are interchangeable but the serial number is on the barrell end. I was shooting at the gun club last night and talked to the guys there about guns and things. They want to steer me straight onto rim fire guns for competition. Still they have enough club guns to keep me happy for a while until I can get my FAC. Out of interest I have just found that my stealth works best with RWS hollow point pellets (25yrds). With accupell there was a 1.5 inch variation but with the hollow points they were all hitting with in .5 or less (my shooting appeared to be the limiting factor). To say I was surprised would be an understatement. They are £2.50 cheaper than accupells too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilv Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 In regard to Dr Nicks question about 'Open Tickets', back in the eighties when I was shooting a lot with a Winchester underlever .22 Magnum (380 ft pounds and 150 ft pounds at a hundred metres) I was very surprised that the officer just gave me an open ticket when I came in to get a third farm put onto the certificate and said I was likley to get other invitations to control foxes. He just warned me that I'd better be careful, which I always was anyway. On that last matter Dr Nick, I can't imagine a WORSE place to ask for shooting than the grounds of a school. Think about the PR angle. Guns and schools are a big NO NO. Firstly, since many, maybe most of the public don't share our enthusiasm for guns, the more descretion we can show the better. What do you think some of the parents might think of it you firing about the grounds - nomatter that you and I know you'd not be doing it when their little darlins were about? I'd drop that idea mighty quikly if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) I have been told if i put MY stealth on my FAC and it has NO serial number on the gun its self then it is a way to get round the non reversal rule. Tell em you sold the FAC rated gun and bring the power down on the Stealth. I dont want to break the law so i will leave my Serial on mine. For the sake of losing a hundred quid i would rather stay this side of the Law. What i am asking is HOW can you get a rifle with NO SERIAL onto an FAC?? I would have thought this would not be poss due the the fact the gun is UNTRACEABLE. Any elaboration on this would be appreciated. Lord Geordie Edited June 1, 2005 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_nick Posted June 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 My stealth has a serial, im sure yours does too. its a little hard to see, but its there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 you were right if you add mopre places to shoot to your FAC you will have to pay to have it updated. you were right if you add mopre places to shoot to your FAC you will have to pay to have it updated Not true, you only have to pay the variation fee if you are adding firearms, which includes silencers, additional land is no fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 you learn something new everyday here ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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