raistrick Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 In trying to widen participation in my club, make it more accessible to people of all levels I've tried getting cartridges cheaper and using different grounds. Currently we are looking at 3 places: Ground 1: place we've shot at for years, who have a gunshop on site, teach beginners well, make great cakes and have always been very helpful. They shoot with their own branded Express cartridges and want 130 quid for 1000 (21gram). We're not allowed to shoot with any other brands down there, even Express that don't have their name on! Ground 2: we've started using because Ground 1 doesn't do OT and we have a new shooter who is doing well in some national tournaments. They use either Fiocchi or Hull at £133 and £118 for 1000 respectively (21gram again). We're not allowed to use any other than these brands except on match days. Ground 3: a new possible ground geared up for corporate events that is far closer (half the commute in fact - 40 min round trip over 80-100) and just do sporting. We're likely to keep them for weekend practice and still go to one of the other 2 grounds on the usual afternoon. They charge £4 per box 25 Eley (24gram). I would assume that if we were to do any friendly shoots with other clubs we'd be ok to take any of the cartridges above to the ground, but it's a shame we can't bulk buy and use all 3. I was planning on bulk buying the Hull from ground 2 as they save the most money, but what are people's thoughts on cartridges? What are the differences? Are they that noticeable? And why do clubs get so touchy about what make of cartridge you use? I don't know much about cartridges or running a ground so I don't know why this is such a problem. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Tell them to go poke it!! Buy your carts from a gun shop and get them loads cheaper - If the ground stipulates that you can only shoot a certain load or fibre wads only, then that's fair enough, but they can't dictate that you buy solely from them (unless you do not have SGC and are taking lessons) - Just buy the carts that stick within those guidelines from your local gun shop. 21gm plastic express are £116.90 for a thousand in John Forsey (Who i still like as a shop before we start that one again!!) and £116.50 in Essex Gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would not shoot at any ground that ditacted to me what brand of cartridge I could use, and definetly would shoot at one where I had to buy the cartridges from them exclusively. How can they say you can only use x type except match days? surely if you have been practising with x type you wouldn't change brands to shoot a competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 It seems to be a common thing that this is the case. I know we get members rates without paying membership... perhaps that's part of it? We're a university club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhiannonBW Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 It seems to be a common thing that this is the case. I know we get members rates without paying membership... perhaps that's part of it? We're a university club. This makes me really sad that the grounds aren't doing their best to encourage youngsters into the sport and support you in your efforts to bring down the cost of shooting to broaden the appeal of your club. At the ground I shoot at they don't mind what brand you shoot as long as it's fibre. They sell both Express and Eley but I'm not a good enough shot to notice any difference between the two. Rhiannon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 This makes me really sad that the grounds aren't doing their best to encourage youngsters into the sport and support you in your efforts to bring down the cost of shooting to broaden the appeal of your club. Exactly, there isn't enough done to help us cut costs. They reckon they make no profit from us at all, so I would have thought as long as we disposed of our own empty cartridges they'd have no problem in making no profit off just the clays?! The cost, especially with the distance we have to travel as well, is stopping the club from having more than 30-40 members a year (I think we could easily have 60!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rondald Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 When I challenged a shoot about the exclusive use of their own named brand the reason given was that it was a condition of the planning consent, as these cartridges fell within the acceptable noise level. The shoot is close to Thruxton Racing circuit!! Another shoot quite openly stated that selling their own brand only helped to keep the overall cost of running the shoot down. No one has the balls to mention "Profit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well noise certainly isn't a problem at these 2 grounds, they're in the middle of nowhere. I think the only given reason from one was "just easier if everyone uses ours". I know one of them is looking at using Eley instead of their own branded. So maybe I can persuade them to use the Hull ones from the other ground. The ground selling the Hull ones I'm sure would do anything to help us drop prices (but I get the impression they might get some sponsorship from Hull and Fiocchi) they practically gave me some chokes at the weekend. I've not noticed much difference. I noticed more recoil when I was using 28gram over 24gram and some difference between 24gram and 21gram, but can't see any difference between brands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzrat Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Bought a "bargain box" of 250 odd carts a few weeks back. It was all loose shells that either the box was damaged or 1 or 2 missing etc all sorts in there, express world cups, hull soverigns and pro 1s, gamebore black gold, viri vipers, all top end shells in 28 gram. (black golds are £185ish per thou ) Didnt notice a difference between them and my usual Gamebore Kent Velocity at £125 per thou apart from the black golds kicked like a mule. If you can, pick a brand and stick to it, learn how it shoots through your gun and if it suits YOU not the ground owners. Vote with your feet. I'm sure the ground owners will change their minds when 40 odd students walk off never to return. If I owned a ground near you I would have the welcome mat out. 40 odd shooters guaranteed at a weekend would be rubbing my hands together in glee Fuzrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsey Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would not shoot at any ground that ditacted to me what brand of cartridge I could use, and definetly would shoot at one where I had to buy the cartridges from them exclusively. How can they say you can only use x type except match days? surely if you have been practising with x type you wouldn't change brands to shoot a competition. MC it's quite common round these parts. I've heard of a few. I once went to Brook Bank or Cheddar Valley as it's sometimes known and on a practice day I had to buy and shoot their cartridges. I only did 2 round of skeet and went home. They weren't those subsonic ones either. I never went back for practice and I have shot a registered there ONCE and they don't impose those rules on registered days. I checked that before I shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) From the gounds of running a university club, I ran my one for a couple of years and was on the exec for four years. We rented a field to shoot in on wednesdays and went to a local club on sundays. I've never heard fo the problem of using other cartridges. I guess we just might be lucky, the only time heads are raised is when someone occasionally uses black powders. I would have thought if your club is a decent size you could just decide to take your business elsewhere. At the first or second shoot of the first term of the year the owner of the ground gave us a medal to give to the high gun. I hope theres a decent ground near you somewhere. We may have passed by at BUSA (I still like to go along with the old boys!). Edited March 31, 2009 by ProteuS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Tell them to go poke it!! Buy your carts from a gun shop and get them loads cheaper - If the ground stipulates that you can only shoot a certain load or fibre wads only, then that's fair enough, but they can't dictate that you buy solely from them (unless you do not have SGC and are taking lessons) - Just buy the carts that stick within those guidelines from your local gun shop. 21gm plastic express are £116.90 for a thousand in John Forsey (Who i still like as a shop before we start that one again!!) and £116.50 in Essex Gun Well, while we might not like or agree with this, in commercial terms any club not running Reg Competition can ( and do) stipulate what may or may not be used. There is probably a good safety or noise reason behind the insistance, to guarantee safe fall out and keep noise down. None of those mentioned are charging huge sums for a box so its not profit motivated. Free use of cartridges will invariably push safety and noise limits, and if a grounds on the border line with light loads the last thing they want is some-one using up their Baikal 36g no5 that are in the bottom of the cart bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle eyes Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi, Can you let me know where ground 3 is. I have a good idea where grounds 1 and 2 are. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi, Can you let me know where ground 3 is. I have a good idea where grounds 1 and 2 are. Thanks Steve I'll let you know when I know... somewhere near portishead - it's not a proper ground, it's one of these corporate events places. But they have quiet winters and winter is pretty much the bulk of when we shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinhood69 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I would be tempted to vote with my feet and tell them why i wouldnt be back.My local club let you use your own carts AND offer the discount for buying a 1000 carts ,but apply it to 250 boxes ,not bad if your not getting thru tonnes of them if your only an occasional shooter.They charge 29 quid for 250 so 119 for a thou,there hulls and dont seem too bad.I guess its a case of shopping around a bit,when i first started on the clays ,only a few weeks ago i had no idea how many clubs there were,the one at Riseleys a bit of a treck but the service is so good and the atmospheres the same .Worth the trek i think. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slated Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 They charge 29 quid for 250 so 119 for a thou 29 * 4 = £116 unless you are giving them a tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I bought Eley Olympic 28's last time in plastic wad, but must get fibre wad next time cos one club I shoot at are a bit fussy. Not sure why I should change, I would not be able to tell the difference, unless another brand will help me hit more clays. I might as well buy blanks the amount of clays I hit...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinhood69 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 29 * 4 = £116 unless you are giving them a tip No wonder im going bust!!!its not the recession its me mental arithmetic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flymo Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hi Does anyone use Fiocchi cartridges? Any recommendations on type or another cartridge brand for a beginner who's interested in skeet, trap and sporting? What's best 24 or 28 gms load? Cheers.... Flymo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I bought a thousand Fiocchi cartridges once. They were cheap at the time. I found them OK. Lots of sparks and flames from them, people used to comment I think I looked up the word Fiocchi on Google. I believe it might mean fireworks Aptly named Never had a misfire with them or any problems Edit : Apparently it doesn't mean fireworks at all Who cares? Edited April 6, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raistrick Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hi Does anyone use Fiocchi cartridges? Any recommendations on type or another cartridge brand for a beginner who's interested in skeet, trap and sporting? What's best 24 or 28 gms load? Cheers.... Flymo Being a beginner interested in Skeet myself I'd say the cheapest... which for us is Hull 21gram - (I'd think for skeet 21 gram is all you need to learn, if you miss it's generally cos you weren't aiming at it) From what I hear 24 gram is the maximum for skeet (and helps as it gives less recoil, i guess), most trap shooters I know do 28s... I'd also only use 24s for sporting, but I'm sure its all personal preference - we were always given 28s for tournaments. One piece of advice I was given though was to only do one discipline at a time as a beginner. So I'm sticking to olympic skeet and only do sporting for a bit of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flymo Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Thanks for the info guys! Cheers.... Flymo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) Hi Does anyone use Fiocchi cartridges? Any recommendations on type or another cartridge brand for a beginner who's interested in skeet, trap and sporting? What's best 24 or 28 gms load? Cheers.... Flymo I'd also say 21gm/7.5/8/9 is perfect for skeet. Hull do a 7 1/2 21gm which works out at about £123/thousand fibre wad, or £112 plastic. They are clean. I shot around 275 today and got away with 3 bits of kitchen towel and 2 squirts of solvent to make the bores spotless. Well, it also rained so it was a full strip down job but hey, its England No need to use 24gm or higher for skeet in my humble opinion, its close range so you'll benefit more from the quicker spread offered by the lower power cartridge with smaller shot. 21's even work nicely on sporting clays in some situations. Then again, I dont know anything, so feel free to shoot down my opinon, anyone PS (edit): Make sure you are using light chokes too for skeet. Less is more. Edited April 9, 2009 by notsosureshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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