licence conditions are they mandatory

[fullbore]

I could have said to them when i first got my ticket something like,

 

oh ! by the way did you know that i have more than likely fired more centre fire ammo in a week than the whole of the county of north yorkshire does in a year, as a gunnery instructor in the royal armoured corps this is a distinct possibility,

 

bob.

 

 

Bob, that just means you have a vast and extensive experience of shooting on a range. It does not mean you have any experience of being in a public place where at any time a member of the public may suddenly appear in your field of fire (Highly possible in Scotland) Neither does it mean you have any experience in identifying diseases in the deer. Please do not think I am having a personal pop at you Bob, or belittling your military experience, I would be the last to do that. We all know that DSC is not ideal, but at the moment, it's all there is.

[scotland rifles]

Bob, that just means you have a vast and extensive experience of shooting on a range. It does not mean you have any experience of being in a public place where at any time a member of the public may suddenly appear in your field of fire (Highly possible in Scotland) Neither does it mean you have any experience in identifying diseases in the deer. Please do not think I am having a personal pop at you Bob, or belittling your military experience, I would be the last to do that. We all know that DSC is not ideal, but at the moment, it's all there is.

 

I know where your coming from ( thats why i never mentioned it to them) i started shooting/hunting and fishing when black and white photos where the in/only thing, my dads brother had a farm in west lothian and we all had the chance to hunt etc, and i did start from the age of 6 but took the rifle side of life from the age of 8 ( bruno 22lr and a 410 shotgun ).

 

I understand we need to have guidelines, but a bit of paper that says you did it is not good, just look at the idiots that have a driving licence but still drive like plonkers and end up killing some one. what we need is the old boys on the land to teach the new fresh legged ones the ropes,( IMO there is no substitute for this ) and the longer we leave it to the money spinners the less people we will have coming into it,

 

As a example, just think how many farmers say they are skint ( the money they can demand for hunting and shooting is a fantastic earner for there hard work ) and there is not a poor farmer on this island who knows this, again it seems to be money driven, and to that end it will end the sport for the so called common man.

 

i would rather spend £1,000 being shown the ropes by a experienced hunter on the ground one to one over a long time, and walk home with my pockets empty and head held high, than walk home from a class of 10 after 2 days and £350 out of pocket with a bit of paper saying on that day at said time i got it right,

 

bob.

 

i'm up at six i need to go.

Edited April 27, 2009 by scotland rifles

[fullbore]

I understand we need to have guidelines, but a bit of paper that says you did it is not good, just look at the idiots that have a driving licence but still drive like plonkers and end up killing some one. what we need is the old boys on the land to teach the new fresh legged ones the ropes,( IMO there is no substitute for this ) and the longer we leave it to the money spinners the less people we will have coming into it,

 

i would rather spend �1,000 being shown the ropes by a experienced hunter on the ground one to one over a long time, and walk home with my pockets empty and head held high, than walk home from a class of 10 after 2 days and �350 out of pocket with a bit of paper saying on that day at said time i got it right,

 

bob.

 

I absolutely agree, learning from an experienced person is far and away the best method, but how do you prove you have learned at the feet of a master without the paper? The DSC course I was on was run by a satlker with vast experience, and staffed by experienced stalkers many of whom have necome good friends. I live in Yorkshire, how do I show the Forestry Commision in Scotland I have sufficient experience without a recognized qualification which shows I have been trained to a measured standard? I could tell them I have gained my experience with Old Freedy a stalker of 50 years standing but what ice would that cut?

I don't think the new requirements are oppresive, more that the old ways were too lax, and I include myself in this, when I first got my FAC I could roam the land with a high velocity rifle without the need for training or to show experience, so while the need for qualifications may be a tad inconvenient, I feel it is a more attractive alternative to having hordes of untrained people roaming around with rifles just because they have no police record (which can only mean they have never been caught!) as it may be me or a member of my family who catches one because they have no understanding of backstops, what makes a safe shot etc, none of which are requirements for the grant of an FAC

[markbivvy]

if this is the case then Mark,

 

The sport is doomed, and the shooters pockets that are nearing empty now will be even more so in the future.

 

bob.

The sport is doomed

Thats not how the Authorities will look at it.

they will be able to tell the world all our shooters are competent and have the paper work to prove it, just like the rest of the EU.

 

Fullbore is right in saying its coming, but what happens when every one has DSC 1,1.5 and 2.what next

3.4.5.and 6.

with countless add on,s and top ups.

 

 

the professional stalkers will have to do all the tests , exams and courses, the cost wont bother them they just pass in onto the punter.

many of the recreational stalkers wont be able to afford it, more land and deer for them that can then.

 

night shooting courses are run up and down the country, purely voluntary right now,

but for how long.

Reloading, how long before this warrants a course.

Health and safety, its every where, None of it will stop accidents but it will cover the issuing departments and the governments backsides.

Edited April 28, 2009 by markbivvy

[markb]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Mr bivvy it's all about people covering their backsides,

 

I recently worked on a gas pipe line I had to do 12 hours induction, although I already hold various licences etc etc.

 

it's all about the people in charge being able to say well its not our fault, he passed the test, blame him

[fullbore]

Mark Bivvy, you have indeed hit the nail on the head and said exactly what I was trying to say, and far more eloquently to boot.

Yes, once the ne'er do wells that are the health and safety police get their teeth into us, we've had it. I despise them men with a vengeance, can't do a real job themselves, so they make everyone else's life a misery

Germany has a particularly stringent set of tests etc before you can get near a gun, never mind go hunting!

[scotland rifles]

got to agree with fullbore and the other gent Mark,

 

you are very good with that hammer mate. spot on,

 

to cap it all mate, i went out for a nice buck tonight and got it, about 90 yards up the track in the woods and a nice shot off the stickes for the first time.

 

boy was i chuffed. liver in the fridge and the animal in the chiller for a few days and then some nice deer for an evening eal.

 

got to get it in as much as i can before i can't afford it.

 

bob.

[markbivvy]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Mr bivvy it's all about people covering their backsides,

 

I recently worked on a gas pipe line I had to do 12 hours induction, although I already hold various licences etc etc.

 

it's all about the people in charge being able to say well its not our fault, he passed the test, blame him

 

good man B.

what advise have basc given you please.

[Suffolk shooter]

On the basis that the FAC for .243 has been granted with a view to a mentor being present, does this mean that said mentor is/holds suitable deer qualification such as DSC1/2 or accredited witness?

 

Reason for asking is that, when applying (First time applicant) for my .243 along with .22lr, my mentor (who is an accredited witness and good mate), stated that after a year of mentoring and on the basis that a diary was kept with photos etc by both of us (done seperately), then he would submit his record with a letter stating that in his experienced/qualified opinion, I was a safe and competant shot on .243 (Regardless of Deer or Fox, the conditions apply to the calibre not the quarry on my FAC) to my FEO.

 

I checked with my FEO that this would be acceptable method of gaining open condition i.e. "without mentor", to be told that given my choice of mentor and my background of shooting and knowledge that this would be acceptable. The easy option would be to do DSC1, but I have neither the finances (Both distance learning or residential) nor the time (to do a residential) due to work and family committments in this current economic climate.

 

BASC should be able to challange this on your behalf and there have been more than a few cases in the recent past where this has happened to gain more acceptable conditions.

 

All the best and let us know how it goes.

 

SS

[wymberley]

Hi, All,

Waffenbesitzkarte and Jagdschein is what Scotland Rifles is trying to remember.

[scotland rifles]

Hi, All,

Waffenbesitzkarte and Jagdschein is what Scotland Rifles is trying to remember.

 

 

Thank you sir.

 

Well i am up to my knees in work and family commitments as we all are, i hope to contact my local rep as soon as i can,

 

can i say thank you to all on this board for both the up front help as well as e-mails and pms. the support here is just fantastic

 

thank you,

 

bob.

[al4x]

I reckon half your issue is having a female FEO as we all know they are never wrong and if they are they'll argue it to the end of the earth.

 

Stinks mate to an extent if the DSC didn't exist then perhaps we wouldn't have the issue but we do and FEO's are up on it so keeping a nice little business going, before too long we'll need something similar to do any form of shooting putting obstacle after obstacle in the way of new entrants to the sport.

[scotland rifles]

JUST AN UPDATE.

 

i have in my lunch time sent a letter to my local BASC office/representative containing some of the information/detail mentioned in my initial post.

 

So i will up date you lads when i have a response from BASC, i have spoken to my representative before and he was more than helpful.

 

best wishes

 

bob.

Edited April 29, 2009 by scotland rifles

[scotland rifles]

Just an update,

 

nothing heard as yet,

 

sent the letter to the wiltshire rep, ( who i think is on holiday ) so will be waiting with baited breath.

 

bob.

[scotland rifles]

latest update.

 

My regional office and representative have passed this onto BASC head office for consultation,

 

I just hope it does not open a can of worms for myself and any new shooters, just depends on how the issuing force views it,

 

bob.

Edited May 5, 2009 by scotland rifles

[markbivvy]

latest update.

 

My regional office and representative have passed this onto BASC head office for consultation,

 

I just hope it does not open a can of worms for myself and any new shooters, just depends on how the issuing force views it,

 

bob.

 

Hope it turns out good for you mate.

keep us posted please, I for one will be very interested in the out come.

[njc110381]

I too hope you come out of this ok. I don't know a great deal about the law. All I know is that when I want something I quote parts of the guidelines to them and state that they are being unreasonable! The question is would it be cheaper to do the DSC or take them to court? Either is expensive, court is the right way for the rest of us, and the DSC is the easiest way for you. If BASC will fight your case then let them, your FEO is full of ****

[scotland rifles]

thank you guys.

 

i too hope this turns out right for me, and it may well serve a few others to pay attention as well,

 

i think this will either totally open it up for me or slam the door in my face, to that end i have consulted my mentor (in their words an experienced stalker) about the letter and he has told me to keep my notes on my stalks up to date, including things like my loading gear and expenses i have undergone to help me do what i am doing. if you know what i mean,

 

we will see and time will tell.

 

bob.

[markbivvy]

Any more news please B.

[Bazooka Joe]

Any Update ??

 

BJ.

[scotland rifles]

Hi Joe

 

nothing mate.

 

seems i may have to change my allegiance,

 

my renewal has just come through and they have not spoken to me at any time, zip nada, nout, nics, sweet f all.

 

sad,

 

seems my money will be going to a new group of people that may actually contact you when you ask for their help.

 

bob.

 

well disappointed