activeviii Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 i tell you what is the agression for when someone asks a question? how the ******* hell is any body suppose to improve and get better with out asking these silly and point less questions as has been stated. i thought we as guns on a site like this would help new and unexperienced shooters. i know if you spoke to me like that i would put you in your place i am not a brilliant shot but if i can help some one on certain things then i am more then happy to help. so wind your bloody necks in with the nastieness and have some ******* patience. as for kills if you are using a air rifle then i have found that a chest shot makes a clean kill on pigeons and mainly birds as a head shot on rabbits and hares is best. if you on a shotgun then it hard to tell as the shot is widely spread. and ignore the grumpy ***** who cant be ***** to help and give you a gob full. ^^^Well said that man^^^ My oldest son, 11yrs, asks, what some might see, as the stupidest questions ever and even before you have answered the one he is straight back with another. its his way of working things out in his head. dose my head in no end but he is the top in his year at school and there is nothing i cant ask him that he will not try to answer. I will never knock him for it as it will only knock a young impressionable mind that just wants to better himself and I hope not turn out like me with a shot out brain that cant sting a sentence together what one person might think is stupid shows that they either cant be bothered, haven't got kids or cant be bothered with there kids. I'm new to the pigeons and have read a lot of stuff on here but as I'm getting to know more I'm noticing more and more KBS. everyone is new at every thing some time or other, just some will ask for help where as others sit at the back hoping someone else will ask the question. give others a break guys you never know when its your turn Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 IMO if you're shooting anything (birds/rabbits/squirrels etc) with an air rifle then it should be head shots only as the sure way to obtain a clean kill. BUT then what the hell do I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 yep same here. with a standard air rifle then im the same, head only. be careful with a breast shot om a pigeon as there crops might be full so you could just injure the bird as the pellet would bounce off what ever is in its crop. could be acorns Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLeic Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 yep same here.with a standard air rifle then im the same, head only. be careful with a breast shot om a pigeon as there crops might be full so you could just injure the bird as the pellet would bounce off what ever is in its crop. could be acorns Phil Have to agree i do have lots of experience with airguns (in years about 20 since ive used them with my dad from 7) and to be honest you should be shooting for the head against any "pest" species ie corvids, rabbits & pidgeons i wouldnt even try a body shot on any of them as unless the air weapon is FAC rated (which i doubt) you are much more likely to injure than to kill in field conditions (im not doubting your prowess here its just not very likely to cleanly kill all the time anyway with body shots especially the rabbits and pidgeons). In short go for the head and if possible get someone experienced to take you out in the field and show their fieldcraft teechniques so you can learn off them...a book will never substitute experience with someone who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr salt Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hi head is the best,but in the real world you cant always make that shot,so go for the middle of the chest(crop). You will be more likely to hit it with .177 (travels flatter)and more likely to kill it with.22.(more energy transfer). Dont shot with pointed pellets. All the mags say use domed pellets. I use flat head pellets for maximum energy into the bird(pellets never go right through). I hope this is what you wanted to know. sorry about the spelling iam ill at the moment. if you were talking about shotguns ,that more radom, and down to how the gun patterns. if you dont ask, you will never know,so ask all you want. Hope this helps scott mr salt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) some good advice has been said , i have been shooting pigeons for years with airrifles, my prefered normal shot is head , but as has already been said pluck the bird and have a look just how tiny the kill zones are, if your shooting in light breeze to moderate wind limit your yardage, woodpigeon are a lot tougher than ferals and doves, but a good shot a third of the way down the back drops them no probs aslong as its central. the best i find shot is a neck shot , but its the shot i take least as its proberly the hardest to acertain the exact shot placement. if sub 35 yards with 12ftlbs , i will go for shots side on just in front and 15mm below the wingjoint in front of the wing itself through the side of the breast on doves and ferals only, when you take a pigeon appart and have a look at its anatomy you will see why you cant shoot them straight on as the breast bone will deflect your pellet. as for woodys its a big no go there just to tough . another note is on your chosen spots to shoot is to ensure its not to shallow an angle at impact to prevent the pellet deflecting off the bird and not going through. as for bunnys, as they can be a bit tricky when they move into different positions, is just at the back of the eye about 5 mm behind... and the other if they have there head pointing away is lower back of head ... i would not try any other shots on rabbits with 12ftlbs , but they drop easy when you hit the sweet spot.. my suggestion is to maybe find a local airrifle club get your *** down there and have a good bit of practice there will be loads and loads of info on offer by the chaps there , and if your local to me you can pop out down my land and i will show you the ropes pal. remember an animal is not a paper target and deserves your respect to ensure a clean kill .. Edited September 27, 2009 by onlyme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntout Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Righto, there's quite a lot to consider when shooting with an air rifle. In the first instance I wouldn't be too concerned about the pellet not having the energy to kill the prey. A bunny only requires around 5lbft of force to kill it. Using a ballistics calculator we see that at 35 yards a HandN Field Target Trophy fired from a gun at 11.5ftlbs would arrive at it's target still containing - for a .177 = 7.7ftlbs for a .22 = 8.5ftlbs both of these contain more than enough stopping power to kill a bunny. Now consider the more important factor which is hitting the blighter. A .177 flies with a much flatter trajectory than a .22. Now, say you zeroed your rifle for 30 yards, which is pretty standard for a sub fac rifle. If you were aiming at a half inch kill zone you would be able to hit that kill zone (by aiming dead centre at your target) anywhere - for a .177 = between 13-36 yards for a .22 = between 10-15 and 25-30 yards. This shows just how much a .22 arcs in it's flight path. One sure way to test this is to set up targets at 5 yards intervals out to 45 yards and aim at the centre of each, fire off a group of maybe 5 shots and measure where they place in relation to the bull. You will see how the pellet arcs as it travels. From this will be able to calculate holdover. Now, this is only relevant if you are able to gauge the range of the prey. There are a number of ways to do this - 1. Use your mildot reticle (google range finding and mildot for a very detailed explanation) 2. draw a site plan and place markers around your permission 3. get a scope which can range find. I use a Nikko Stirling 4-16 x 50 AO IR. The crucial letter there is the AO which refers to the adjustable objective lense (sometimes this is as a side wheel). By zooming in fully on my prey and adjusting the lens I can simply read off, to an acceptable degree of accuracy, what the range is. Knowing what the range is I can then adjust my shot to allow for drop. As myrifle is a .177 this isn't such a problem but for a .22 holdover would become more important to ensure you dont hit it's cheek or neck - especially if you're shooting out to 45 yards, which is achievable. You can use the mildot or 30/30 reticle on your scope to gauge holdover or I prefer to make an educated guess, knowing how big a bunny's head is in inches and working from there. Rangefinding at night and in the field is very different to in your garden, especially at night. With a lamp I'd see the bloody pellets missing on numerous times! So then. You now know the range and are correcting for drop, great. But can you hold the thing still enough to hit it? At 40 yards on 16x zoom a 1/2" killzone is pretty small and the crosshairs will wobble around so this part involves that dreaded word - PRACTICE. It makes perfect. You must practice across all ranges and positions you're likely to shoot and once you can hit a 10p out to 35 yards confidently you're on the money. Some other considerations - Make sure you get the animal if it doesn't drop where you hit it and humanly finish it off. Body shots are not acceptable in any way. I often give a little click to get a rabbits attention and get him to face me or move his head to give me a clean side on head shot. A precahrged rifle is far easier to shoot accurately than a springer and is more forgiving as the lack of recoil allows it to be rested on firm objects. A springer will recoil and knock itself off target. Also, springers can be "hold fussy" and have real issues with certain styles or grips. BSA Lighting is one I could never shoot - just couldn't adapt, where as my old HW97K was a gem. Learn field craft - understand how and why the animal behaves in a certain way and work with this. Get downwind of bunnies and dont let pigeons see you or they'll never land. Learn how to skin and gut them. Free meat. Stay calm and relax your breathing for your shots. Squeeze, dont jab your trigger. Also, try not to repeat post and annoy the locals....they have shotguns!! Cheers Tom Edited October 1, 2009 by burntout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris o Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 i am glad to see some people agree with me on this matter. if you have not noticed the size of a pigeons head is tiny. so how the hell are you to expect to hit a pigeon in the head with out missing. plus pigeons and most other birds are like chickens you can ring there necks or cut them off and will still run around for a while because of the nerves in the body. as i have already said i shot pigeons with air rifles since i was 7 years old and i am now 20 fur enough not aslong as most you guys but i was down my permission very day with me step dad clearing ferrels and woodie squirrels and rabbit. and i have found a chest shot did a instant kill. yes have tried head shots on them but they flew off and could not find them. so ******* critise my shooting methods but i am talking from my experience. i now soot shotguns and would not look back but i would not be were i am now if i did not ask some obviose and pointless questions so give the newbies a break and help stupid or not. spread your knoledge. as i will with my children and any other newbie might ask but i will gladlly help them and offer my support. so get your heads out of your ***** and stop being missrable. and be patient and helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 quote! " have found a chest shot did a instant kill...." certainly not on a woody pal no way , on a feral and dove maybe yes .. pal, i dont mean to be a *** or owt, but on a feral with an non fac air rifle id say a possible yes 60% of the time, but at sub 12ftlbs, i cannot agree with this as i know this isnt true with legal limit air rifles with all the kit i have used over the years and i have used daystates airarms hw's in various guises bsa etcetc , what rifle are you using ? power and caliber ? as i may learn something here? where do you position on the chest ? as there is a big armour plate under the breast meat.. and shot placement is critical . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Righto, there's quite a lot to consider when shooting with an air rifle. In the first instance I wouldn't be too concerned about the pellet not having the energy to kill the prey. A bunny only requires around 5lbft of force to kill it. Using a ballistics calculator we see that at 35 yards a HandN Field Target Trophy fired from a gun at 11.5ftlbs would arrive at it's target still containing - for a .177 = 7.7ftlbs for a .22 = 8.5ftlbs both of these contain more than enough stopping power to kill a bunny. Now consider the more important factor which is hitting the blighter. A .177 flies with a much flatter trajectory than a .22. Now, say you zeroed your rifle for 30 yards, which is pretty standard for a sub fac rifle. If you were aiming at a half inch kill zone you would be able to hit that kill zone (by aiming dead centre at your target) anywhere - for a .177 = between 13-36 yards for a .22 = between 10-15 and 25-30 yards. This shows just how much a .22 arcs in it's flight path. One sure way to test this is to set up targets at 5 yards intervals out to 45 yards and aim at the centre of each, fire off a group of maybe 5 shots and measure where they place in relation to the bull. You will see how the pellet arcs as it travels. From this will be able to calculate holdover. Now, this is only relevant if you are able to gauge the range of the prey. There are a number of ways to do this - 1. Use your mildot reticle (google range finding and mildot for a very detailed explanation) 2. draw a site plan and place markers around your permission 3. get a scope which can range find. I use a Nikko Stirling 4-16 x 50 AO IR. The crucial letter there is the AO which refers to the adjustable objective lense (sometimes this is as a side wheel). By zooming in fully on my prey and adjusting the lens I can simply read off, to an acceptable degree of accuracy, what the range is. Knowing what the range is I can then adjust my shot to allow for drop. As myrifle is a .177 this isn't such a problem but for a .22 holdover would become more important to ensure you dont hit it's cheek or neck - especially if you're shooting out to 45 yards, which is achievable. You can use the mildot or 30/30 reticle on your scope to gauge holdover or I prefer to make an educated guess, knowing how big a bunny's head is in inches and working from there. Rangefinding at night and in the field is very different to in your garden, especially at night. With a lamp I'd see the bloody pellets missing on numerous times! So then. You now know the range and are correcting for drop, great. But can you hold the thing still enough to hit it? At 40 yards on 16x zoom a 1/2" killzone is pretty small and the crosshairs will wobble around so this part involves that dreaded word - PRACTICE. It makes perfect. You must practice across all ranges and positions you're likely to shoot and once you can hit a 10p out to 35 yards confidently you're on the money. Some other considerations - Make sure you get the animal if it doesn't drop where you hit it and humanly finish it off. Body shots are not acceptable in any way. I often give a little click to get a rabbits attention and get him to face me or move his head to give me a clean side on head shot. A precahrged rifle is far easier to shoot accurately than a springer and is more forgiving as the lack of recoil allows it to be rested on firm objects. A springer will recoil and knock itself off target. Also, springers can be "hold fussy" and have real issues with certain styles or grips. BSA Lighting is one I could never shoot - just couldn't adapt, where as my old HW97K was a gem. Learn field craft - understand how and why the animal behaves in a certain way and work with this. Get downwind of bunnies and dont let pigeons see you or they'll never land. Learn how to skin and gut them. Free meat. Stay calm and relax your breathing for your shots. Squeeze, dont jab your trigger. Also, try not to repeat post and annoy the locals....they have shotguns!! Cheers Tom The question was ''where to shoot a pigeon to make it a clean shot'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) if you have not noticed the size of a pigeons head is tiny. so how the hell are you to expect to hit a pigeon in the head with out missing. PRACTICE plus pigeons and most other birds are like chickens you can ring there necks or cut them off and will still run around for a while because of the nerves in the body No they dont Edited October 4, 2009 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 plus pigeons and most other birds are like chickens you can ring there necks or cut them off and will still run around for a while because of the nerves in the body No they dont im afraid they do pal , please it weakens the forum posting billyb0773ks , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSussexLad Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) plus pigeons and most other birds are like chickens you can ring there necks or cut them off and will still run around for a while because of the nerves in the body No they dont I agree 100%, Very very few pigeons once they have had there necks rung flap about at all... Edited October 4, 2009 by Jamez14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 ''im afraid they do pal'' Then your not doing it right ''please it weakens the forum posting billyb0773ks'' Stop posting then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntout Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 The question was ''where to shoot a pigeon to make it a clean shot'' oh that ones easy - in the head. Just make sure you're good enough to take the shot....hence my posting old bean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here iam Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 :blink: Head or neck and get within proper range also helps also use dome heads not pointed pellets more impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 this has gone on a bit give the guy a break we all have to learn and will always be learning new things i have 30 + years shooting experience but i still will ask if i DONT no the answer SO WHAT thats life ,we all carnt be clever s--ts who think they know it all can we so thats why we ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris o Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 thank you linny someone else who believes in the right to ask questions to recieve a answer and some advice why cant people be more like you on this site? instead of being missrable ***** that they are. a standard air rifle that kicks out 12 ftib will kill a pigeon with a chest shot i did it all the time and picked up every one i had shot with it. and the reason i started chest shot on featherd game was after reading a air gun shooting magasine and some one asked were to aim at and a PROFESSIONAL said chest shots for featerd and head for fur. so argue with the writer who said that but it was sound advice and i stuck to it and it never failed and yes pigeons do flop about and go on if you ring there necks like a chiken. as i have experienced. so why dont you **** your selfs and dont ******* start trying to give me **** about my tatics. thank you and **** you. not you linny though you believe in what i believe in. every other obnoxiose cock eating faggots and do one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemicky Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 thank you linny someone else who believes in the right to ask questions to receive a answer and some advice why cant people be more like you on this site? instead of being miserable ***** that they are. Thing is Chris the original poster was bullied off this forum , Jamie 1 , there really are some very obnoxious people on this forum , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) This thread is over 4 months old, so why dig it up again? Put your spoons away, no one is interested. Also, if you think that every question deserves a full answer then you didn't see how many daft threads and daft questions were asked in such a short space of time. Yes, newbies need help and their questions answered but they might want to help themselves by using the "search function" first (see the sticky) to make sure they are not asking a repetitive question that has already been asked a million times before. Within a week we had 141 posts and a whopping 41 topics started; including legendary topics such as: "LIESTERSHIRE", "buying a bmx", "GHOST" and through to the profound "DEAD " and the poignant "BED TIME ZZZZZZZ". If anyone wants to go back over those 41 topics and have a proper go at answering them, then be my guest. Incidentally, Jamie01 was alive and well and on the forum but last month trying to flog his PSP, >>here<< but without any interest Edited October 18, 2009 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemicky Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 no one is interested Mr Mungler do you speak for the whole forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nope. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion has been stated as too yours. Now, if you want to answer those 41 topics then be my guest..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemicky Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Not likely , although I did read one of your posts, twice, so that I understood it , the one about renting or letting the property and all the pit falls very interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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