Mungler Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm with the Sportsmans Association. Sounds like an exclusive drinking and gambling club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 ...not posh totty. What a let down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 A £5 to to the Charity of our choice to the first PW member who can point me in the direction of 'posh totty' at BASC! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 A £5 to to the Charity of our choice to the first PW member who can point me in the direction of 'posh totty' at BASC! David I for one am dissapointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partridge60 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm not an insurance salesman, and neither is SACS as an organisation - we are a POLICYHOLDER on behalf of our members, and the insurance, although important to our members, is only one of the many services we supply to our members. As quoted by Ian Clark. Does the insurance cover a specified number of members, or is it unlimited? How is the premium calculated if the number of members isnt stated- as the potential for claims must increase if more members are covered? As SACS is the policy holder then they must have the policy document and should surely display it on their website or send each member the vital information on what cover is afforded under the policy. Has any beater or picker up, or loader or shoot ever made a claim under the cover, and if so what was the outcome? I am sorry if I seem nit picking but I have just had a theft claim denied because I did not report it to the police within the set time scale and am some £2000 out of pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanClark Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Not nitpicking at all, Mr Partridge - easy stuff Our premium is notified each year on renewal by NFU - I just pay it. Our claims record must be pretty good, because the premium is good value for money - in my seriously unqualified opinion, of course The policy covers all existing members AND any all members for the following year, so there is no limit on numbers covered. Of course we have a policy document, and several amendments where we have added even more cover over the years when we found something we had missed when we specified the cover originally. It is deathly boring stuff, as you would expect, and I don't see any need to take up space on our website with it when no one is really interested, and I certainly don't see the point in sending our members huge piles of paperwork (at their expense) when no one has shown any interest in it. If it was required by law, I would of course do it, but until then, it is available for those who actually need it as and when they do. As far as I can see, at the moment the only people who would like to read it are those who would have an unhealthy interest in trying to pick holes in it, but then I'm just an old cynic I'm genuinely sorry to hear about the claim you lost - I always advise our members to let me know immediately if there is a potential problem, so I can try to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen to them. Finally, David - this is a REALLY bad time to be saying you might not be director material - rumours about Der Bascfuhrer retiring abound, and I wish you well if you have an interest in the post:good: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partridge60 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Thank you Ian for your reply. As I have my farm and business insurances with the NFU Mutual, as do many other farmers, I have today written to the NFU Stratford on Avon Head Office to ask for a proposal form for a similar policy to SACS, with details of the cover and any restrictions theron. I believe the FSA recommends that every person applying for insurance cover is furnished with the cover terms and conditions so although it may seem unnecessary it may be easier for you to scan the policy onto a web page or two so that all members can ascertain the cover given and ask any pertinent questions regarding exclusions. I know that my personal vehicle, as opposed to farm vehicle, cover specifically excludes for Hire & Reward, and I got caught out when towing a livestock trailer to deliver some sheep Id sold and had a slight accident. Fortunately the repair cost wasnt far off the excess under the policy so i wasnt much out of pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Interestingly partridge your concern is possibly just as applicable to BASC whose policy consistently mentions the words "recreation" which is quite a good word implying the same thing as you're concerned about with SACS, was also interesting as I didn't know they wouldn't cover you if you dropped a bird on a fellow guns car which must be one of the more common accidents out there, out of interest would SACS cover a similar occurence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Al4x,Given the scenario you set out I would expect both the SACS policy and the BASC policy to pay out. As far as I know all of the association policies have the same set us as SACS and BASC, i.e. you pay the premium and this covers you up to a number of members, at least 150% of the current number insured say, so you don’t have to worry about declaring new membership numbers every moth – what a fag that would be! Recreational is a moot point in insurance terms when it comes to shooting activity, there is no definition, but frankly none of the insurers of the associations (I hope) would try and bounce a claim if the member being claimed against was ‘earning’ a few quid beating or picking up. BUT I do know some people, a mate of mine included, that make thousands a year from beating and picking up and loading…indeed they do nothing else form August to February - now in that case, I think those guys need to take put a commercial policy as they are blatantly doing this activity by way of business. Interestingly, this leads me onto (nicely) the point the FSA lay down about when you have to comply with their rules and when you do not. Very simply the FSA say that is you are selling insurance by way of busies then you must comply with their rules. OK, so what is the ‘business test? Easy, take the insurance offering away from your package, would you sell the same or fewer memberships? If the same then evidently you are not selling insurance by way of business, if less..well what do you think will happen? Ultimately , and I am sure I an would agree, being a member of an association is much more than insurance! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 ah I must be reading your principal exclusion 6C wrong in that case, seems like we've gone full circle on the payment issue though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partridge60 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Sadly, the only real way to ascertain what is covered and not is when a claim is submitted and a legal precedent will be set. Insurance proposals are "uberrimae fidei" - that is every relevant circumstance which MAY affect cover and therefore premium must be declared on proposals or the policy will be voided and any premium paid forfeited. Insurance companies have avoided payment on claims because certain factors, some which may be considered insignificant by some, have not been declared. Some members who may have a conviction for something which is time expired for SGC purposes may find cover voided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Partridge, I cannot think of any of the shooting association’s insurance polices that would void a claim because the member had a spent conviction. Liability claims tend to get settled in the County Court (if they ever get to court- which most don’t) and this Court is not high enough to set legal precedent You must remember that the principle of liability insurance is to compesate the injured party if they make a valid claim. In the case of where you insure something like a car or a vase and you fail to declare material facts and you make a claim for compensation for loss yourself like you loose the car or break the vase, then you can find yourself in hot water! It’s important not to get different types of insurance mixed up. Material facts / endorsements etc are always listed on the key Facts and main policy document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partridge60 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 David Failure to disclose material facts when filling in a proposal form is fraudulent. Until I receive the proposal form and policy conditions from the NFU and can pass them on to my friend for consideration I cant comment on how the NFU policy works. His speciality as a practising barrister, hes now a Recorder, was in compensation and industrial injury claims, many of which were personal or public liability cases. Fortunately, hes been my guest on several bought days shooting and is happy to give his advice free - god knows what his charges would have been otherwise. Once bitten twice shy regarding insurance companies Im afraid - and I always get any statements on cover in writing nowadays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 you've had more bad luck with Insurance than anyone I've ever heard of Partridge. Unless the number of claims you seem to have made has flagged you up to the insurers I can't imagine why you're that worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partridge60 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Only one claim disallowed and that was sufficient to make me cautious.Many years spent working in the City before farming- a family lifestyle I decided initially wasnt for me but subsequently opted for before nervous collapse! - tends to make me reflect more on the finer points maybe. I would hate anyone to carry on doing things assuming that they are covered and when a claim by them or against them is made, to then find that the company wont pay out. Fortunately incidents in the shooting field arent that common but when they do occur could be fatal. Dotting Is and crossing Ts is second nature nowadays. Compensation culture, sad to say , seems to have crossed the Atlantic - seen those telly ads urging you to let a firm of solicitors make a claim on your behalf- no win no fee etc etc. Not the british way but times are changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well, bobby dazzler has had his original question answered with bells on. Its time to close this thread........................................until the next "What insurance..........? " post comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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