bostonmick Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 at this moment in time you have the right to carry a concealed weapon everytime I leave home to go to a shoot my gun is carried by me and is concealed in its slip/case.what this thread has mostly been about is the fact that you cannot own/carry a handgun.that right was taken from us by the government of the day due to circumstances and public pressure and that is democracy.you vote for it.you also have the right to defend yourself using reasonable force and that could be disabling a would be attacker with your gun as long as it is in proportion to the situation.so now you have the right to carry and also the right to defend. No you are not carrying a concealed weapon. It's a weapon only if you use it for such a thing. What you have is a cased/slipped sporting/hunting gun. It is not a weapon since you're not allowed to use it for self defense. CCW was banned in Britain in 1946 when the requirement disappeared from the FAC that a gun could be owned for sefl-defense, not in 1998 when Handguns were banned. as for guns increasing violent crime well that is open to major abuse as I have said,lets look at the current amnesty being run by most forces.lets say over the country 500 items are handed in and we all know they will not all be guns.and also at the same time there is say a major sporting event on for a week so a lot of the would be criminals are sitting at home watching tv so fewer crimes as they are not on the street.but then up pops the police and government with the figures that since the amnesty there were 200 fewer crimes compared to the previous month whereby proving that guns being taken out of circulation reduces crime.i do not believe that any statistics are produced on a unbiased basis.most surveys are carried out by companies employed by another or a government to prove something and will be set to show the result you want.and as with searching the net for stats you can just keep searching until you find a set that suits your argument. Yes I agree there, stats can be manipulated whichever way depending on what results you want to find out. i think that far from proving that ccw works the countries that have it prove how it does not work by the amount of deaths that should not happen.and as they are so called legal killings they are not recorded as crimes so therefore manipulating the stats again. Czech republic has CCW and has lower crime rate than UK. Then again it's statistics again. Come on you must have a little humour in you.the point of carrying your shotgun or rifle was just a distortion in a light hearted way.it was a quip and provoked a response. As for self defence I doubt anyone would condemn someone if they used their guns to disable a violent attack as long as it was clearly proportional. Maybe a bit of an anxious time. And finally your Czech comment which is obviously showing how stats can be misused the Czech Republic has a population of just over ten million. I would be surprised if they did not have lower crime.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Not at all.Scully came out with the number for knife crime as an example of how violent this country is and to support his view that we would benefit from a reduction in violence if CCW were to be adopted.all I did was show some numbers that suit the opposite.As I said all stats are engineered. Also I have never said anyone is wrong in their opinion and do not seek to change anyone's. See? There you go again Mick. This is a perfect example of the point I have been making. You are deliberately misinterpreting what someone has said in an attempt to justify your own argument. I posted the 'number for knife crime' to show you that not all statistics consist of 'cooking the books' as you claim, as the official figures quoted break down to 80 incidences of knife crime per day, which however way you look at it is not good for the Government who have legislated against knife crime in an attempt to placate the UK public following several high profile killings with knives. I can agree statistics can and often are engineered to suit an agenda, but Government 'engineers' must have all been off sick the day these figures came through if that is the case as you claim. I have never once claimed, nor tried to claim, that CC would result in a reduction in violence, as you say I have in your post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 See? There you go again Mick. This is a perfect example of the point I have been making. You are deliberately misinterpreting what someone has said in an attempt to justify your own argument. I posted the 'number for knife crime' to show you that not all statistics consist of 'cooking the books' as you claim, as the official figures quoted break down to 80 incidences of knife crime per day, which however way you look at it is not good for the Government who have legislated against knife crime in an attempt to placate the UK public following several high profile killings with knives. I can agree statistics can and often are engineered to suit an agenda, but Government 'engineers' must have all been off sick the day these figures came through if that is the case as you claim. I have never once claimed, nor tried to claim, that CC would result in a reduction in violence, as you say I have in your post above. well I seem to owe you an apology indeed it was not you who posted that cc would reduce crime.you posted the figures for total knife crime for one year.did they also give details of increase or decrease from previous years and all I did was find a set of stats that show knife crime falling.so if our society is getting safer and less violent that should mean we have less need for weapons to use in self defence.as you know for every set of figures you put forward for any subject someone will find some to contradict them.someone said on another thread you are required to edit quotes out of context so as to suit your agenda.its 75% gameplaying the rest is somewhere near the truth.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 TROLL! Fairy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Fairy You have being asked to back up your post by forum members, why don't you have the courtesy to reply instead of trying to be a smart ***. Maybe you could get another photo of children that were murdered to make your point. Edited November 25, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 You have being asked to back up your post by forum members, why don't you have the courtesy to reply instead of trying to be a smart ***. Maybe you could get another photo of children that were murdered to make your point. ok look seriously I enjoy shooting clays and game its a great sport, I have no issue with individuals who own firearms that are used in an appropriate manner, where I do struggle is with a line of logic which takes you to a place where you put the lives of others especially children at risk just so we can enjoy shooting, the problem especially with handguns is they attract the sort of person looking to make a statement looking to obtain a niche in infamy from some obscene act of barbarity. These individuals are very rare they are a once in a ten year event but I am sorry I cant sign onto a gun ownership position which has any potential that allows this. I would go as far as to say if the current legislation position resulted in acts of mass murder i would support further tightening of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 These individuals are very rare they are a once in a ten year event but I am sorry I cant sign onto a gun ownership position which has any potential that allows this. If he had used a shotgun or .22 rifle would you support a ban on shotguns and rifles ? its a simple question. the problem especially with handguns is they attract the sort of person looking to make a statement looking to obtain a niche in infamy from some obscene act of barbarity. That's insulting to the thousands of law abiding people that own handguns including me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 If he had used a shotgun or .22 rifle would you support a ban on shotguns and rifles ? its a simple question. That's insulting to the thousands of law abiding people that own handguns including me. IF we had incidents where mass murder was being carried out by individuals with legally obtained firearms then yes let me explain it a different way, "do you dive a car" if I said drink drivers should be banned would you be offended because thousands of law abiding people including you drive a car and don't drink and drive, should we allow drink driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 IF we had incidents where mass murder was being carried out by individuals with legally obtained firearms then yes let me explain it a different way, "do you dive a car" if I said drink drivers should be banned would you be offended because thousands of law abiding people including you drive a car and don't drink and drive, should we allow drink driving but would you also want the actual cars banned too ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitfitter Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 but would you also want the actual cars banned too ?? Or maybe the alcohol since it draws a certain type of person who partake to excess then drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 well I seem to owe you an apology indeed it was not you who posted that cc would reduce crime. Thankyou; apology accepted. you posted the figures for total knife crime for one year.did they also give details of increase or decrease from previous years and all I did was find a set of stats that show knife crime falling. The stats may well have shown that knife crime is falling, I have no idea as it is not what I am concerned with from the point of view of CC. I think you may still be missing the point. The entire and only point of CC Mick, is to allow a law abiding individual the freedom to carry some means of being able to defend themselves if the need arises. It has nothing whatsoever to do with falling or rising crime rates, and was never introduced in the hope it would create less crime, even the ultimate deterrent of capitol punishment doesn't stop people being murdered. CC is entirely for the defence of the individual, and in some cases others in need. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not and never was introduced as a Government initiative to reduce crime. so if our society is getting safer and less violent that should mean we have less need for weapons to use in self defence. Nothing wrong with your logic there Mick; you would indeed think that falling crime rates would mean we have less need for weapons for self defence, unless of course you are one of the people personally affected. Don't forget that despite falling crime rates more and more police are being armed. as you know for every set of figures you put forward for any subject someone will find some to contradict them. Agreed. someone said on another thread you are required to edit quotes out of context so as to suit your agenda. I think that was me, but the smilie emoticon meant it wasn't intended as a serious option. its 75% gameplaying the rest is somewhere near the truth. I can assure you MIck, I would not knowingly deliberately mislead anyone by editing or taking out of context, nor manufacture untruths to suit my agenda. I despise such practises. atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 IF we had incidents where mass murder was being carried out by individuals with legally obtained firearms then yes. Like this . Why doint you make a start by giving up your firearms. Cumbria killer Derrick Bird shot his semi-naked twin brother 11 times with a rifle after confronting him in his bedroom, the inquest into the deaths of his victims heard today. Relatives of the dead held hands to their faces as the full horror of the 52-year-old taxi driver's rampage through West Cumbria was revealed for the first time at the hearing. During the killing spree on June 2 last year which left 12 dead, Bird carried a 12-bore sawn-off shotgun and a .22 rifle, and repeatedly stopped his Citroen Picasso car before calling his victims over as if to ask the time. He then simply blasted them in the face with the shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I cant believe the anti gun **** being spouted on here.i used to shoot pistols as part of my job and for pleasure.nowdays i collect them de act as i cant own them functional because the cops let an idiot have one by not following their own own guidelines and procedures.can anyone please tell me how that makes me some sort of "type of barbaric person" looking for a niche to put myself in?what a load of garbage.this is the same type of rubbish i get sick of hearing ftom people that hate AR15 type rifles saying their evil n have no place in our sport but will happily bang away with an enfield or other type of military arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 but would you also want the actual cars banned too ?? this makes no sense try to keep up Or maybe the alcohol since it draws a certain type of person who partake to excess then drive see above Like this . Why doint you make a start by giving up your firearms. clearly the ability to spell isn't a prerequisite to gun ownership I cant believe the anti gun **** being spouted on here.i used to shoot pistols as part of my job and for pleasure.nowdays i collect them de act as i cant own them functional because the cops let an idiot have one by not following their own own guidelines and procedures.can anyone please tell me how that makes me some sort of "type of barbaric person" looking for a niche to put myself in?what a load of garbage.this is the same type of rubbish i get sick of hearing ftom people that hate AR15 type rifles saying their evil n have no place in our sport but will happily bang away with an enfield or other type of military arm. I am not anti gun just pro life The desire to own and use a weapon any weapon is chilling, do you guys need a handgun or semi auto rifle so badly that you would happily see other people die just for your pleasure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Chris.you can do just as much damage with a kitchen knife or cheap o/u 12bore shotgun as you can with a semi auto rifle or pistol.fact.youll find we're all pro life on this forum but youll also find the vast majority as being pro choice too so it shouldnt matter what kind of trigger your pulling or want to pull were all shooters and should stick together to defend each others chosen sport no matter what.anything else just helps the anti's.so if your not onboard with that then do yourself and us a favour and hand your guns in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Oh and i forgot to add that that 12bore double barrel you probably have is also technically a semi auto as in every time you pull the trigger 1 round is fired,better swap it for a single barrel fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Chris.you can do just as much damage with a kitchen knife or cheap o/u 12bore shotgun as you can with a semi auto rifle or pistol.fact.youll find we're all pro life on this forum but youll also find the vast majority as being pro choice too so it shouldnt matter what kind of trigger your pulling or want to pull were all shooters and should stick together to defend each others chosen sport no matter what.anything else just helps the anti's.so if your not onboard with that then do yourself and us a favour and hand your guns in. no you cant, without getting into all sorts of scenarios to prove a point you wouldn't attempt an act of mass murder with a knife if you had a shotgun to hand. The original point wasn't about shotguns my post was and still is handguns and semi auto rifles should remain banned they are the weapons of choice for deranged individuals, the fact you don't care if someone might be killed just so you can shoot paper is sick and twisted almost deranged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 It doesnt matter if its a mass stabbing,car ploughing through a crowd,mass shooting they all have the same result.death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 no you cant, without getting into all sorts of scenarios to prove a point you wouldn't attempt an act of mass murder with a knife if you had a shotgun to hand. The original point wasn't about shotguns my post was and still is handguns and semi auto rifles should remain banned they are the weapons of choice for deranged individuals, the fact you don't care if someone might be killed just so you can shoot paper is sick and twisted almost deranged You must be sick and deranged if you own a shotgun for clays that is what Derek bird used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 The original point wasn't about shotguns my post was and still is handguns and semi auto rifles should remain banned they are the weapons of choice for deranged individuals, the fact you don't care if someone might be killed just so you can shoot paper is sick and twisted almost deranged Your posts on this subject are just simply unbelievably illogical. Your suggestions as to the make up of those who like handguns/semi auto rifles is both insulting and ludicrously ridiculous. You have deliberately ignored the fact that D. Bird could just have easily walked into his local primary school on that day with his double ejector shotgun and .22 BA rifle ( as it doesn't fit your profile of a deranged killer no doubt ) as there was absolutely nothing in place to stop him, and there is nothing to prevent it from happening at anytime in the future. The next mass killing from a legally held firearm will take place with either a rifle or shotgun, very much like the one(s) you have in your cabinet; logic dictates it can't be any other firearm but the ones I've mentioned as the others are now banned. Maybe you should consider handing in yours now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Your posts on this subject are just simply unbelievably illogical. Your suggestions as to the make up of those who like handguns/semi auto rifles is both insulting and ludicrously ridiculous. You have deliberately ignored the fact that D. Bird could just have easily walked into his local primary school on that day with his double ejector shotgun and .22 BA rifle ( as it doesn't fit your profile of a deranged killer no doubt ) as there was absolutely nothing in place to stop him, and there is nothing to prevent it from happening at anytime in the future. The next mass killing from a legally held firearm will take place with either a rifle or shotgun, very much like the one(s) you have in your cabinet; logic dictates it can't be any other firearm but the ones I've mentioned as the others are now banned. Maybe you should consider handing in yours now. +1 amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Try to follow the logic here Chris, i'll go slowly and keep it simple. ok look seriously I enjoy shooting clays and game its a great sport, Then you have at least a shotgun IF we had incidents where mass murder was being carried out by individuals with legally obtained firearms then yes Derrick Bird, Cumbria, 2nd June 2010 used a shotgun to kill multiple people. You have a shotgun, and according to you, people are at risk because of your selfish desire to shoot targets and birds. Go hand your gun(s) in. Your posts on this subject are just simply unbelievably illogical. Your suggestions as to the make up of those who like handguns/semi auto rifles is both insulting and ludicrously ridiculous. You have deliberately ignored the fact that D. Bird could just have easily walked into his local primary school on that day with his double ejector shotgun and .22 BA rifle ( as it doesn't fit your profile of a deranged killer no doubt ) as there was absolutely nothing in place to stop him, and there is nothing to prevent it from happening at anytime in the future. The next mass killing from a legally held firearm will take place with either a rifle or shotgun, very much like the one(s) you have in your cabinet; logic dictates it can't be any other firearm but the ones I've mentioned as the others are now banned. Maybe you should consider handing in yours now. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 this makes no sense try to keep up keep up with your speeches ? if only i could, id be an mp...... some bad naughty people with bad naughty guns can kill people - ban bad naughty guns!! seems only logical (using your train of thought) that if we have drink drivers then we should also ban cars (and/or drink....prob) your funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Chrisjh is clearly trolling so let him slide back under his bridge and ideally pass away quietly please guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Rumplestiltskins revenge eh.probably the GCN's finest follower. Edited November 26, 2014 by deadeye18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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