Evilv

Look - I enjoy shooting and have done for a good while, but the 'evil' nature of the fox was well tolerated by farmers in areas where there was an active hunt. When I was a lad looking for and finding shooting permission in the 1970s, I received two distinct sets of instructions about foxes depending on whether there was a hunt or not. They were: 'If you see a fox, you be sure to give the bu gger both barrels. Just get him.' and ''Whatever you do - leave the foxes alone.' The difference depended on whether they had connections with the local hunt or not. Also, a very good friend of mine and dodgy country woman tells me how people from the hunt used to bring her tiny fox cubs to bring up when they had been dug out. They then paid her good money for them as weaned and ready to go cubs. For sure the fox can be a nuisance, of course, but the idea that they are evil incarnate is nonsense. Shoot them by all means, but let's not kid ourselves. We do it because we like it and not because he's Satans pet dog. And yes - I was annoyed when I found five of my chickens dead after I delayed locking them up one evening.

Only if you tied it by the leg to a stake. I've seen these things they are hyperactive.

This discussion can easily be settled by looking over the homicide figures for countries where people habitually carry fire arms. You can look at civilised places like the United States, or at wild and wacky ones like Brazil, Columbia, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. Wherever there is large scale carrying of firearms for protection, there is a massive murder rate. Even the States which is clearly a civil society with a great majority of decent people in it has a murder rate at least five times the European average. That's a a percentage rate which takes account of the fact that the USA has a big population. In Britain, the number of firearms related murders is down at the level of 59 in 2006 - 7 which is up from the previous year in which 50 people were shot to death. What more do we need to know? And yes - most of this in gang banger black hooligans, just like in the States, but the level of mayhem is vastly less. Even multiplying that number by 5 which would put us along side the USA in terms of population (the USA has five times the UK population) the number would be under 300 gun related murders. It may well be that once we open Pandora's box like in the States so that all kinds of intemperate people have handguns, that people feel the need to be armed, but that is just not our situation. Do we have armed criminals? Yes. Is there a highly remote chance that any Brit will end up staring down the barrel of a gun and get shot? Yes - but it is literally less than one in a million, and so small that you are far more likely to be killed by a falling tree branch or get struck by lightening and fried in your boots. I respect the historical heritage of the States, but anybody with any sense at all knows that unrestricted hand gun ownership and accessibility brings mayhem with it. You don't believe me - then go and talk to the 15000 American families who lose a loved one through gun violence every year. This petition is not only misguided, it is plain stupid and publicity about it will do nothing to enhance the position of those owning sporting firearms. Home Office Figures see page 39 -> Homicde in UK

That's the thing that always awes me about owl when I've seen them. The wings are totally silent - they fly like velvet. I was once up in the Pyrenees with my son and we'd sat down just below a ridge line. After a bit this huge vulture swooped over the ridge and passed maybe fifteen feet above us. The wings were open and still as it glided by but there was a vibrating noise from the feathers on the trailing edge like you can get with a kite on a windy day

Sorted the problem I think. Rimfire Central Thirty five rounds through faultlessly this afternoon.

Yeah - on the last sentence, I know you are right. I'm just hanging onto the hope that I left the preserving fluid in the chamber and it burned up..... I like my CZ too. I like it more all the time I'm thinking about this problem. It has fired about 1400 rounds without a fault of any kind, but I still like this little rifle.... I just paid £399 for it so I have to like it. It'll come right - you'll see...... I'll send for some brushes and a rod - or maybe I'll compare prices with the local gunsmith because I need this thing working - like NOW!!!

When I say .22 mag chamber, I mean the HMR is a necked down .22 mag (which you know of course) but the i17 boresnake is to thin to really clean that fat part very well. If it would give the fat part of the chamber a good scrub, it wouldn't go down the rest of the pipe. Like I say, I can see an uneven and dull ring in there which I think must be either fouling, or burned cosmoline, which is the name of the bore preserving gunk they put in a new rifle. As I recall, I just pulled the snake through the bore once before I got started and may have left some down in the chamber. Yes - the cases have changed like you say, but look at the left most one. It's the same as the unfired case, but fouled. Of course, in desperation after two consecutive stuck cases when I could have had a follow on shot, I also oiled the cases with oil from my cars dipstick on a tissue. That got me nine or ten good cyclings of the action and a sack of rabbits. Some of that uneven looking fouling on the leftmost case could also be the effect of old engine oil out of my diesel. Daft, but desperate situations require unorthodox solutions to get you through. I should have gone with the screen name of 'Bodger', or maybe 'Bodger Bill'. No - the necks are mostly just sort of shrugged up like you can see in the photo.

LOL - brings a new dimension to getting out the old bore snake, doesn\'t it? I spoke to Winchester on the phone. The guy said I should carefully clean the chamber with a .22 brush and plenty of foaming bore cleaner. He reckoned that the chamber may be dirty and that the boresnake for .17 wouldn\'t do much to the .22 magnum chamber which it is for most of its length up to the necked down part. I tried looking at the chamber and I can see an uneven deposit in there near the neck, but it isn\'t easy to eyeball it with a torch in the action. Someone on rimfire central said the hornady rounds are hotter loaded than others and to try another brand. Some of the fired cases are a slightly different shape to others with shorter necks. I\'ll go on the clean chamber first, new brand of ammo second, and KY jelly third - LOL. I\'m not sure it would burn up clean actually Ive. I know it\'s water based, but there must be something slippy in it that could dry out and burn. I\'m thinking a smear of grease on the cases if all else fails. Then it\'s sending the beast back, which would be a real shame since I have a lot of work for it to do, which is why I bought it in the first place. The two on the left stuck. The other two on the right didn't. Look at the shapes at the neck. I can'ts see how they would come out different if they were subject to the same pressures in the same chamber, unless they were able to back out from the chamber a bit under peak pressure. The stuck ones have dirty necks. I'm going to clean that sucker good and hard.... EDIT - actually, I have powdered graphite which I will polish into the chamber with a mop after cleaning all the crud out. That is a true high temperature lubricant. I got a puffer pack with wee spout from a locksmith a few years back and it is very slippy stuff and binds onto metal really well. It may be the perfect lube for this kind of thing, but really we all know you don't need to lube a rifle chamber so what am I raving on about?

LOL. Bearded Deagon? Can you shoot them with and HMR or do you need a spear and a man called George on a horse?

No - you are not allowed to buy them. They have to be on prescription. Seriously though - this is a Daily Express story - don't take too much notice. Given that so many of our hospitals are far from new, I would be surprised if they were not having infestation problems. In any case, I'd me more worried if they weren't calling in the pest controllers wouldn't you? NOT doing anything about a problem would be a much more serious indictment. If you have never seen any of these nasties around your property, I'll be surprised. Rats, mice and beetles are pernicious and virulent pests everywhere I've ever been. When reading about MRSA and hospital infections, remember that they are such a problem there not because hospitals are the only place they are, but because some of the people in hospital have severely lacking immune systems. A substantial proportion of us healthy fellows have MRSA up our noses right now. It is everywhere and doesn't bother us because our immune systems haven't packed up like a fair number of the people in hospital. You could stop MRSA in hospitals at a stroke by banning all visitors and putting MRSA infected patients into isolation, only we wouldn't tolerate that would we. Hospitals spend most of their time dealing with people who are seriously sick and failing rapidly. That is why they have higher death rates than night clubs and gymnasiums.

You mention earlier about how difficult it's been to feed the boresnake in and i'm sure as you well know it only takes the smallest amount of debris in the breech to make things tight . Either that or it could be that the barrel was cut with worn tools just coming out of calibration and your chamber is a few microns under size . The dirty necks are an indication of air space in the chamber when the round is loaded and upon firing powder residue or sooting occurs in this area .Maybe there is a slight stretching of the neck because it as the space to do it causing these extraction problems . I once had a strand off a cleaning patch in the breach and no way could I load a round and that was the end of that hunting trip . Rimfire central is a good site Thanks Ive. You are the first person to come up with a detailed explanation of what might be going on. I really hope we aren't talking about a bad chamber. That will be a real ****** if it's the cause. I've just got back from another shooting trip and at the beginning the second and third cartridge fired stuck in the breach. I went to the car, pulled the dip stick and wiped the oil onto a tissue. I then wiped oil all over the next nine cartridges and loaded them. none of them stuck. Near the end of the night, two more stuck, but to be honest, I guess those ones had barely any oil on them. None of them were wet with oil or anything, justa thin film like you might get on an engine cylinder. Is this likely to carbonize and make the thing worse by coking up? I know there is considerable heat, but presumably in the absence of free oxygen. This is guesswork and I really don't know. My next step aprt from thorough cleaning will be two fold. First, I am going to take a small tube of coppa slip with me next time and wipe it on the cases and necks. If that makes them slippy enough to come out like the oiled ones seemed to, I'll keep doing it until I've used up these Hornady rounds and then try another type without lubrication. Other than that, it may need to be returned, but I'd really rather not have to do that. Shot 140 yard rabbit stone dead tonight, and most were at about a hundred and some. This is new experience for me after the .22 and quite pleasing in a psycho kind of a way.

But you know as well as we do that half of the effect on the jury depends upon the acting skills of the barrister. Put up against a skilled prosecutor, half the men and women in this country will get flustered, panic, and look as guilty as hell. You know this, I know this and it is one of the fundamental flaws of the system that you are so confident in. Also, although I have a lot of faith in the common sense of ordinary men and women, we all know men and women with none at all and they get through as often as the more sensible and sit on juries. Tough luck if you are being assessed by some dork who would rather be listening to her ipod, or playing hangman as was spotted in two recent trials. What isn't spotted is silent, idle inattention, and it is happening all the time. I don't like the French that much, being a bit of an ar se myself in these matters, but they and most Europeans have a different system that I think could more easily get to the truth. Instead of having he confrontation between sides like we do in our adversarial system, their trials are an enquiry where the judge steers the investigation and questions the witnesses himself. The reason I have a sympathy with this is that the search is for the TRUTH and not to WIN which lies at the root of a British or American trial. In ours, the prosecutors job is to paint the accused and the evidence as black as he can, whereas the defence does the exact opposite. If you have a less than stunning brief, or worse still, represent yourself, you are in BIG trouble here. In Europe, the motives of all parties are to find the truth and not to win any kind of a battle. They also have a panel of assessor judges and also one of ordinary people who act as two juries with vote each. You are found guilty if 75% of the assessors think you are. I note KDubya's remarks about false accusations in sex crime cases and subsequent convictions. They are good examples and I would only add those of the so called Ritual Abuse that was supposed to be going on in the Orkneys where incomers were singled out and accused of satanic sexual abuse. I saw those 'victim' kids now grown up describing how they were questioned for hours and no one would listen to them, but the social workers just went prattling on about them being in denial. The social workers had all been to some seminar by a lunatic American fundamentalist who was convinced that Satan was directing evil people to sexualise and abuse children for his greater glory. Original accusations came from a couple of scottish kids, but they were more or less coached into a horror story by people who thought there was no smoke without fire. The accusers were never thought to be victims themselves, they just told some weird tale about seeing something going on over the hill from far away. The programme interviewed the key witnesses for the prosecution who still believed that satanic abuse was going on, even though the now adult 'victims' denied it absolutely. Fortunately these cases didn't get to trial, but they did elsewhere. Ritual Sexual Abuse fiasco Right - rabbits are waiting to be the victims of my hate crimes - I'm off to see to a new property I just got.

Thanks for your thoughts Harnser. I totally agree that we can not allow evil filth to overwhelm our streets and byways and that we need protection from bombers, perverts, maniacs and street robbers. There is nothing I would like more than to put them all in dungeons, actually - you know, we've all seen the engravings of medieval prisons with the scum of the earth hanging in chains in their own filth. You have me down as a bleeding heart - read my words on this and on the transformation of our nation by uncontrolled immigration of people who don't have any wish or intention to become British. I'm as right wing as sanity allows and then some. But I won't shrug and accept that some people will go to jail who are innocent - no sir, and why should I settle for such a lazy, half ars ed solution as that. That's the lazy cops way out, and the lazy judge too, 'Ah - some people will have to pay who are innocent so we don't get people questioning the system. It reminds me of Lord Dennings shocking remarks at the time of the release of some of the Irish so called bombers. It is certain that they were beaten and abused in custody. It is certain that they should not have been convicted because there is a high probability that they committed no crime except to be ignorant and Irish. The so called scientific evidence which was all there was against them later besides forced confessions was revealed to be sh ite. So what did Denning say? he said, 'It would be better that these men had been hanged than that they were released to cast doubt upon our system of justice.' That is not a direct quote - it is to the best of my recollection what he said about twenty five years ago. It is the most disgusting betrayal of what he should have been protecting - Justice. How is it better for the innocent to be sacrificed rather than shake the confidence the public has in a system with flaws? The people of this country deserve all the protections you have mentioned and more, BUT they deserve that the system of justice does what it says it will do - what is has been written into the heart of the law since 1215 - that a man is innocent until he is proven guilty, not until it is convenient to fit him up, or until the needs of inspiring confidence dictate that scape goats be found and paraded to the satisfaction of a mob. The system should be better and some insiders can't see that.

Can't speak for Harnser Bryn, but for me it can be pretty much anything LOL. The revolution has already happened - the liberal revolution that has brought some benefits and also done such terrible damage to this country. It was a slow-motion revolution that was never approved by the people (they were never asked, because they would have given the wrong answer). I think that many if not most of the architects of the liberal revolution were well-meaning if terribly naive people, many of whom would be or are horrified by many of the effects of their actions. The liberalisation of the abortion laws is a case in point. When this "reform" was passed few desired the situation where nearly 200,000 babies are aborted annually in Britain, and the total number aborted since then has surpassed the numbers killed in the holocaust. Others, such as Woy Jenkins, are probably burning in hell as we speak. The permissive society is the civilised society? Oh ******* really? The truth is that many of them are rich and powerful enough to be insulated from the worst effects of their folly. Like Lord Woolf, the Lord Chief Justice who thinks that burglars should not be jailed. A reasonable position if you happen to have 24hr armed police guards. Rather less appealing for the rest of us. Crime doesn't affect them, poor schools don't affect them, mass immigration doesn't affect them, a squalid NHS doesn't affect them, their ivory towers are built far above such things. There will be no further revolution. It must be hard for older people to accept, because they lived through a different reality, but the fact is there is no way back. This should not be surprising - it has happened to many before us, and will happen to many in the future. Our country was special - the best the world has ever produced in my opinion, although few any longer know this or why it was, or even care that it was so. Uniquely civilised, ordered and free, the world had never seen the like, nor will again for many years. The conditions that made us were unique, and the process was necessarily slow and measured. Harnser, this doesn't end in revolution and a long overdue reckoning. It ends where it always ends, in the gutter. Perhaps when historians look back they will wonder how we allowed it to happen, as they have for centuries wondered about Rome and its destruction, marvelling at how such a light was permitted to be extinguished. Robert This is an important contribution to the discussion in my opinion. I think a lot of these ills can be traced right back to 1968. Events then led to a revolution of sorts which at the time I thought were exciting and wonderful. Sadly - things got out of hand and we now have perhaps hundreds of thousands of fatherless children growing up in a moral vacuum, politicians who clap hands at the subversion of our culture by a malign foreign religion, and cities so changed in the character of their people, that my grandfather would think he had been transported to the hinterland of Hindu Kush, rather than that he was in Birmingham, Leeds, Leicester, or London.

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to think as you like of course, but that doesn't make you right any more than I am. What makes you right is incontrovertible evidence. Of course the police don't ONLY prosecute the innocent. I don't think I read any post that said they did, but anyone who thinks that innocent people don't get convicted is a fool. The court system doesn't think that either. That's why we have courts of appeal and that's why every year people convicted of heinous crimes and having served often long sentences are released without a stain on their character and compensated. There is massive evidence that there are quite often miscarriages of justice and I don't understand how a rational man could deny it. It's perhaps easy to rubbish the freeing of people like Barry George as you did the other day when it isn't you that has been locked up and traduced for eight years. It suggests a rather cavalier attitude to people's liberty if you don't mind me saying so. But before you dismiss me as a 'lefty' which I am not, just remember that respect for liberty is a Conservative principle and it is a fundamental principle of this nation leading back to the signing of the Magna Carter in 1215. By the way Harnser - I've seen guilty people found not guilty, particularly by magistrates - laughably so in fact. I'm not a soft touch on crime. I would never have found some individuals not guilty in some of the cases I have sat through. I did this because I was thinking of becoming a magistrate, or at least applying to become one, and I spent a few weeks in court and saw some right villains let off. Fortunately, these were all rather trivial cases. I also saw a vastly inefficient system at work in which solicitors could spin out the process to no ones benefit other than their clients. Most appearances ended with an adjournment.

Tell that to Stephan Kiszko. Sixteen years convicted of the murder and rape of a poor little girl Leslie Moleseed. Problam was, he was retarded and innocent and badgered by police into confessing. When he later retracted, the courts looked at the misfit simpleton and decded he had done it. In fact, Ronald Castree did it as was later proved. All kinds of people are accused of rape without any good reason. Some dysfunctional schoolgirls threaten men they will accuse them of sex crimes. I know, I have worked with some of them. There are a lot of evil people around and some of them are not the archetypal villains. They are people who falsely accuse people they want to control. Of course child molesting perverts need to be punished, but if anyone thinks we have a good justice system here in the UK they are kidding themselves. Innocent people are regularly convicted and guilty ones go free. I can remember my grandfather extolling the view that. 'British Justice is the best in the world'. God help the rest then - that's all.

But that would imply that you had total confidence in the honesty of witnesses, the police and the infallibility of the courts. It would be damned hard lines to find that a later appeal exonerated you of the accusation leveled at you by a lunatic or a bungled investigation. I have absolutely no confidence in the courts to nail the right people all the time. If you want to cut off somebodies private parts, you'd better damned well get the right man 100% of the time. Same with hanging. That's why I said earlier that I wouldn't go all the way with Harnser's list of punishments. We know full well that people are convicted who are innocent. Prison is bad enough in such a case, to be hanged or deprived of your nads would be much worse.

Harnser, I, and I suspect 90% of the population of this once-great country feel the same as yourself, unfortunatly we cannot go back now, it's far too late, we have long since passed the point of no return. There will be no revolution, because by the time we are pushed to that point, there will be no legally held guns. I wouldn't support all of Harnsers list opf punishments, but the general point about left wing policies having ruined the country I thoroughly agree with. As for Bob's suggestion that it has all gone too far to be got back, I'm not so sure. There is a huge undercurrent of resentment about many things that are happening in this country and changing altogether the character of the land we older ones were brought up in. It isn't the same nation now in many ways. That trend can be stopped and the sooner it is the better. I've never been a racist ever, but I am very angry deep down about the cultural changes that are happening in whole areas of this land. If someone comes to live here, he'd better intend to come and make himself British. I don't care about what colour he is, as long as he has come here to be an Englishman, or a Scot or a Welshman. If he has come just to soak up the benefits and to carry on the way people do wherever he came from, I have a big problem with him. I also don't see how a person can travel overland from Africa or the Middle East to escape persecution in whatever God forsaken hole he came from, sneak in here in the back of a lorry and then claim he is seeking asylum. How does that work? If he wanted asylum, he could have got that as soon as he crossed the border of his own land. If he comes here in the back of the truck having crossed half the planet, he is an open and shut freeloader and criminal looking for a good life. That is not the same thing at all. The politicians of this nation have become an easy touch and lack the spine to stand up and stop these scum from taking our country from us and turning it into something horrible just like where they came from. Worst of all, they parrot the rubbish that chants how wonderful all this sliding into medieval cultural standards is and how terribly tuned in people are who like that kind of thing. I mean, it's great to make women dress up in a black sack isn't it chaps? Very PC. Back to the point - this could be put right in short order if there was a party ready to do it. That is the problem, not the people. People will vote for a respectable party that espouses their ideals. Bob has a point about whether any of the mainstream parties have the stomach to take on the things that are ruining the land we love. The one party that says it will do these things is unfortunately tainted with the stink of neo - nazi extremism. My old man fought against all that as I dare say did some of yours. My mother now dead was in the forces too at that time, and I'm not going to vote for any party that has the links and the membership extremes that would have supported old Adolf and his gang. By the way Bob - the eastern Europeans showed that you don't need an armed insurrection to bring about radical change in government. They all just stood in the open and chanted and government after government toppled. ORANGE REVOLUTION

I doubt that is the problem. It is a proper ISP account. Also, I am registered and can log in. It just says that my application is awaiting the attention of a moderator. It isn't a problem really. I can wait. Cheers.

No - and it makes a rather satisfying bang. The rabbits don't seem to notice that much. They look surprised and sit tight. I've had a few follow on shots. Yesterday there were three; swung the lever - bang - flop, and again and again. Farmer said, 'You were busy'. 'yes,' said I, 'And the rabbits are dead.' He knows that anyway because he can smell them as he walks around. I'm still puzzled on this extraction / cleaning issue. I've registered on rimfire central, but the application is awaiting a moderator to approve it. I don't see a spate of other complaints about the round sticking though. I'm going to put a magnifier on the rounds that stuck and those that didn't. Problem is the ones that didn't are gone in the grass. I'll have to wait until next time unless any landed up in my bag while I was resting on it and sighting in.

Completely right, and I can think of some where I might easily have lost it and fired on someone. The thing that is essentially different about the carrying for protection thing and having a rifle for sport or pest control is this: nobody but a total loon would think of taking his .223 out to sort out a problem with another person. It is in the cupboard, locked up until you go foxing or whatever. A .357 magnum in a shoulder holster is for one thing - shooting bad people. Who are the bad people? People I'm upset with? I think the different mindset invites the 'protection' handgun to be used in a way that would only very rarely happen with a sporting rifle, and only then with a seriously disordered person. We can't say that sporting firearms are never used in homicide can we, but the Robert Sartins, Michael Ryans and Thomas Hamiltons of this world are the one in ten million kind of psychos we all dread meeting on their bad day.

Since some Americans visit this forum and make a good contribution to it, I would consider that remark bad manners.

At least 75-80% of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Even here in the Wild West, if your a law abiding citizen not involved in illegal activity, your chances of being shot are close to nill. They did a study in Richmond a few years ago and discovered that your 22 times more likely to get shot if your involved in criminal activity. I live in a very gun friendly state where 152,000 people are licensed to carry, and I have yet to witness a shooting or mugging. If guns are the problem, then what's up with Switzerland? I don't wish to disrespect your traditions. I'm not doing that. You folks do things the way you want to. That's none of my business. The thing about Switzerland is that all of those weapons in everyones home are there in a military context. In many ways, those weapons are there in exactly the way envisaged by the writers of your constitution - 'a well regulated militia.' That is exactly what they are a part of. They are part of a formal national defense force that all able bodied men are a part of and are invested with the full rigor of military discipline, training and tradition. Also, I believe that most of them are long arms and not pistols. That's why Switzerland sees so little abuse of these firearms my friend. They are not a part of a free for all and they are not tied up with the media fed paranoia about 'home invasions' that is fueling fears in the US. By the way, accepting for the moment your figures suggesting that 75% of US gun homicides are criminals killing criminals as you say, that still leaves 25% which are not. Since you have approaching 16000 homicides, we might reasonably conclude from your figure that 4000 people were shot to death who were not involved in crime. The total homicides in 2004/2005 in the UK including criminals killing criminals and black on black shootings was 810. That included the death toll of the London bombings. By the way, 16 people were shot in homicide killings in England that year. The number is usually less than twenty I think. How many do you think would be shot if we allowed handguns 'for protection', and how would that noble sounding reason for deregulation pan out when people had had a few drinks, discovered their wife had a lover, or lost control in a road rage incident? Home Office figures - see page 49

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman. The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here. If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

Hope you enjoyed Bisley. Thanks for the advice on the cleaning thing. Points noted especially about Rimfire Magic. I am puzzled about the sticking cases because I've never had that before except the very occasional time in all kinds of guns. I've shot one box of fifty with this one and it has happened three times now. The cases show no damage or distortion. When they come out the neck looks dirty and like I said, boresnake stops it for a while. If it is fouling causing it, odd that they would stick after so few shots. The ammo is Hornady Varmint Express, 17 grain at £20 a hundred.