Evilv

Big smile on my face today when I sighted in the Winchester 9417 and tried it on a few rabbits. The gun is very handy, light and pointable. Easy to shoot offhand and to hit 50 yard rabbits right on the nut with a snap shot as they run in from the corn as long as they stop for a second. I know 50 yards isn't the caliber's forte, but I took what chances I had. I stuck a little scope on it that I had lying around - a 4x32 Nikko, cheepo jobby. Not great for 130 yards, but I've left my big scope on the CZ. The rifle wouldn't suit a great big 12x50, in my opinion. Anyway, it's early days. A bit more effort on the sighting in would help, I just set it up a centimeter high at 50 yards and got cracking on the conies. More care in setting up will pay off, but I just wanted to try it out after I got it yesterday. I'm really going to love shooting this rifle for sure. Came back with a bag of rabbits with great big holes in them too. Not a twitch out of any of them. BANG - WALLOP - FLOP. It's very loud too. Much more than the stingers were in the .22.

As I recall the 10/22 I had twenty five years ago worked ok on HV ammo but not on subs - at least not reliably. It was never as accurate as my CZ is though - but I said that earlier on in this thread. See if he'll give you the CZ back. That would be the best thing all round except for the gunsmith, so he probably won't.

No it certainly isn't and neither is intelligence as measured by tests. The problem with juries now is that people get on them who are stupid, idle and bigots. Look at the case where the juror was found to be playing an ipod into her ears while supposedly listening to the evidence and thinking about it. I've never been a juror, but like most people I know enough people who have and they have sometimes told me they were appalled at the stupid bigotry that has been spouted in the jury room - really stupid, illogical stuff. You have to hope that for every one of them, there are two sane and sensible people who are strong minded enough to counteract them, but it's a lottery isn't it. Yes I would, and I'll tell you why. There was only circumstantial evidence and a 'fishy' speck of so called firearms residue in favour of the case. Against it were all the facts that people have brought up about Barry George - mainly, that a very proficient hit was supposedly carried out by a guy who is a hopeless, and socially inept buffoon. Barry George was very good at getting caught - you already pointed that out. He couldn't drive, and he couldn't plan things. The real problem here was the pressure to catch someone for this high profile murder. I think that got in the way of good judgement in this case. We depend on the mass of honest policemen, but we are too often let down by some of them and when we are, there is usually no comeback against them.

God knows - we\'d be in trouble without the police and security services - a pretty pickle and no mistake..... But. to paraphrase a remark up top there, the CPS decide to prosecute and at times the police \'fit up\'. The Barry George case is one of the MOST disgraceful travesties EVER, and that is saying something. From the start it was clear that the murder was a professional hit job. No one saw, no physical traces were left. The victim was a high profile crime fighter in a funny way. Her programme and the millions of viewers it got put away many serious villains. So - after a whole year of no hope investigation, the cops chance on a loner half wit with odd social behaviour and difficulties in expressing his interest in women. What happens? Nobody saw him, he has left no physical evidence at the scene at all. No gun is found. He denies ever seeing the lady concerned in the flesh but they pick up one speck of firearms residue on his clothing a year after the event and after firearms officers have searched his house, no doubt hot foot from the gun range, and bingo - he loses his liberty for eight years. That is really disgusting. The guy has an IQ of 75 but ten jurors thought he could pull off a professional hit job. Justice in this country is a lottery and at least half of that is due to cynical and dishonest policemen with the attitude of, \'We can\'t find out who did it, so this nutter will do.\' Time and again this happens to guys like Barry George. Stephan Kishco was another one. He was known by the police to be sterile and the rapist murderer had left live sperm on the poor little girl that was murdered. They knew Kishco couldn't have left that sperm, but they persuaded him to confess and let him go tp jail for sixteen years until DNA advances dragged up Ronald Kastree who was the real killer. Kishko died not long after he was let out and pardoned. The court never heard the evidence about Kishco's sterility, because it was never given to the defence and he was too simple minded poor b*gger to tell anyone. Kishko

Jealous ..... Big country and plenty of game. I don't expect you have to go cap in hand to get some shooting out there. My eldest son is living in Melbourne just now. Loves it. The missus is going out there to see him next week for a while - I''m gonna love that too. Woooo hooo!

That's virtually an Eley Sub equivalent - lower, but not by much. 40 grn and 1080 fps. They group really well and are quieter than any airgun I have owned. Thanks for the info drut.

Can't wait Drut. They phoned me from Ponteland a few days ago to say the variation was going in the post soon. I sealed the deal for that gun on guntrader and three days later the bluddy thing still hasn't come. Drat! I felt sure I would be down the motorway today to get it. I used to have this gun in 22wmr twenty five years ago. It was a beaut, but I sold it on in a daft moment. The HMR will shoot even flatter. Watch out Roger Wabbit. What do you think of the Career? Is it in .22? I think they do a 9mm one, though god knows what the trajectory must be like. Probably, it would follow the contours of the arch on the Tyne Bridge... LOL. What MV do you get out of the Career and what weight pellet does it shoot?

Webley Axsor .22 CZ452 2eZKM 24inch barrel I just bought this too in 17HMR, but I haven't picked it up yet. I'm going tomorrow to get it. Winchester 9217 I'm going to have me some fun with that next week... I've also got an old boxlock Essex that I bought thirty three years ago, but I can't be bothered to take a picture of it just now.

This geezer on here (Bill Curtis) is an expert on this kind of thing. He can probably tell you where it was made and who fired it how many times.. What he doesn't know about Enfelds isn't worth knowing. Muzzle Loaders Assoication Of GB Have you fired it ever? I had a Parker Hale repro of the muzzle loading version and it was a blast - literally. We also had some repro sniders in the club which were also good fun.

I'd buy the farm you can see in my photo. Then I wouldn't have to drive miles to go up there and shoot on it. I might even blaze away from my bedroom window. I'd look after the sheep and hens and maybe have a few wild boar wandering about the place to ginger things up a bit. As for cars - nah - I'd keep the one I have. It's guns, land and women that I'm interested in.

Hi John. I can argue with most of that and will very happily, if you indicate you want to discuss it further. The fact is that two wholly innocent men were shot down by police in circumstances in which they had the right to expect to be left alone. No one has been held accountable in either case. It is not threatening, or an offense to be in possession in the street of a table leg that's been repaired by your brother, and nor is it a menace to society to be in possession of a sun tan on the tube. These are not my arguments by the way. The behaviour of police in both these cases is well documented to be deeply flawed and full of crass misjudgments. If you or I made a mistake with a .22 rimfire and through a ricochet hit someone in the head, you can be sure that we would be in the dock. Not so if you're a cop and put seven into an electrician's head on the tube though - oh and one in his shoulder. That's OK. You just need to get the Met Chief to apologise. Regards EV

Ah - so you've solved the scope issue. That's good then. Rats are quite tough, and I doubt that you'll 'bust' many with a legal air pistol. They have to be less than 6ft pounds of force and I wouldn't think that was enough to kill any rat I've dealt with. I would take the gun back unless you want it for plinking and are happy with that. Good on your pigeon. I think you'll do just fine with that gun now at the ranges you are interested in.

Go wandering about like that with a gun and you are likely to be shot by SO19 or any passing farmer. Never forget that Jean Charles Menezes was shot seven or eight times in the head by SO19 for having a sun tan and black hair and being on the London Underground. Harry Stanley died for carrying a table leg in a plastic bag and being a little drunk. Harry Stanley RIP Jean Charles Menezes RIP Why is it that the cowboy cops are always exonerated?

A couple of things Amateur: Mind out when shooting at a wooden backstop. Sometimes pellets can rebound pretty hard right back at you. I was once hit on the head by one such. Surprised me MUCH. Better hang up some thick old carpet to absorb bouncers. It will make your practice quieter too. Also, if the gun is having to be resighted all the time, are you sure the scope is firmly fastened to the gun? This may sound a naive and foolish question, but I've used quite cheap scopes on my old TX200 springer that stayed in zero for months of use. Check out the mounts are firmly tight, but don't over do it and strip the bolts as they are pretty small. If all else fails on the scope zero problem, you could use open sights at that kind of range anyway. If the scope is firmly mounted on a gas rifle and it loses zero without being dropped or knocked, it is faulty. Take it back. You were VERY badly advised at that gun shop by the way. They wasted your money for sure on the pistol. You went in with a problem and they sold you something entirely unsuitable. Sounds like they also may have supplied a rubbish scope. I wouldn't go there again if it were me, once you have sorted out this problem and seen them about the supply of inappropriate guns for pest control I would keep out of there. They don't deserve your business. EDIT: This post has been edited and reference to recoil was removed when I re-read the original post and realised that it was a co2 rifle.

Is that first video the mark of a failed state or what? 'You can take this with you when you put out the garbage.' 'When things get nasty, you can just flip it out like this.'

Jeez - that's short. Mine has a twenty four inch barrel. Not exactly handy in scrub, but then I'm not hunting wild boar with it, so if I don't get the barrel on target quickly enough, I don't get stamped into the ground and eaten.

It would be good to contact the local falconer's group. What if that jesse gets snagged up somewhere and it starves while tied to a bush or something?

I could not have put it better.Mind you having both would be tempting My first .22 was a Ruger 10/22 in 1979. It worked ok, but it couldn't shoot the kind of groups that my CZ can. Mind you, I wasn't using the subs then so that could be why is seemed less accurate. The CZ will shoot fifty yard, cloverleaf groups of a centimeter or a touch over on a good calm day with a rest, like off the top of the car. It isn't a glamorous kind of a gun, but I don't see it letting anybody down. Also, the ability to just pull out the bolt and clean with a rod from the breach end is good. Preserves the crown so they say - just repeating what I've been told there. The CZ doesn't make my heart beat faster like the Winchester 9417 I'm picking up later in the week, but it is a simple, workmanlike, reliable tool.

Yes - I know this is true. As for the managing thing, I think that sometimes we idealise the current state of the countryside as if it was perfect. There are parts where it is pretty good; where traditional field patters survive and there is high biodiversity and there are other parts where huge fields, loss of hedgerow and high impact farming has produced something else altogether. Only a fool would think it can be all wild and natural in such a crowded island as this one, so yes - this isn't America and never will be. I'm about done with this topic. There are those who want badger eradication, I don't. Ireland's experience where they have been virtually eradicated shows it doesn't work. TB in Ireland where badgers have been decimated is still more than twice the level of the UK. They abandoned pre movement testing for TB in 1999 and TB rocketted right after. Ireland has been slaugtering badgers for twenty years and there are supposed to be 60,000 badger snares set every night across the land. In Britain, Badgers may need licensed control in some places. I am not against that. As for my remarks on subsidy and baling out businesses, I am totally against it. Far from being a left wing veggie, I am a right wing carnivore who shoots for fun. Subsidy and food mountains of produce bought when no one wants it, are a socialistic nightmare that distorts the market. I pay for food in the shops. Why should I pay more again in taxes to support businessmen who can't compete in the free market? We don't do that with cars anymore like we did in the 1970s. Remember how **** the British made cars were then? I do - they were total rubbish because of government subsidy and interference. If a business man can't make a living, he should do something else. That's how the rest of the economy works chaps - live with it. It is coming soon to the countryside. Whatever we do in managing wildlife, I believe must be dictated by the need to preserve the species we have in adequate numbers. We have already extinguished wolves, beavers, bears and wild cats from most of this island over the last few hundred years and in the past hammered raptors to such an extent that they were virtually gone from large parts of the country. Farmers have to coexist with wildlife - there may be need for control of some species - that is fine. Eradication is not, and for any but legally defined pest species there must be control on how many can be taken. History shows us what happens without controls. These were once common until they were exterminated by farmers and landowners. I want them all back.

What? You think it would disappear? Well, I don't know. Maybe we would have more wilderness to shoot in - like in the States. Wouldn't that be grand, all kind of wild things to shoot at - wolves even, feral cattle and pigs - whooo hooo. Just imagine. I envy those Americans who can 'hunt' as they call it all over the place.

Sorry - exactly what in my bulleted summary do you wish to contradict? If any of the 'facts' I stated there are false, please point them out and I will, if you are correct, withdraw them and apologise. Please provide evidence though. I can support every one of my points with authentic facts and figures. I don't have a low opinion of agriculture, just the socialist system of subsidy that pays people for nothing. What else is 'set aside'? The farmers I know work hard and work long. They didn't invent farm subsidies. Left wing, socialist governments did. I have run businesses of my own. Some were successful, and some were not. When they failed, they failed. I don't remember the government rushing up with a hand out when I couldn't keep up with the competition.

I suspect that it is a matter of an individual who works for BASC rather ill-advisedly using their name to curry support for something he has a personal interest in. It is just a guess, but I suspect that TomBASC has connections in farming. If anybody working for me used my company name like that, he'd be out on his ear and he'd deserve it what's more. BASC has submitted papers to the government consultation process about how badgers ought to be dealt with by those culling them if a cull were brought into force. That is all. They do not advocate the cull as far as I can see. That is my personal opinion only. I do not speak for BASC. You can google and see for yourself if the organisation advocates a cull or not. Call me 'old fashioned', but I would regard it as gross misconduct for an employee of an organisation to seek to associate that organisation with controversial policies which are not its own.

Your diversion from arguments into what amounts to personal abuse is odd to say the least. It also indicates a lack of dispassionate thought about the issue. Farmers, unlike just about any other industry in this country receive large amounts of subsidy from the public purse That is a fact, if you don't want it known, you're out of luck. I know a lot of farmers and many are my friends. It was them that told me that the only people who did well out of FMD were the people whose cattle and sheep were culled. It is noteable that all the tourism businesses affected by FMD and the non-infected farms received not a penny. Odd that, isn't it? Another fact you won't like Digger, old chap, is that all that tourism business is a hell of a lt more important to the countryside economy that the feather bedded farming industry is - by far. It makes far more money. Unlike any other industry in the civilised world, farm subsidy means that a business with defective stock or product has it bought by the state for market value. You accuse me of being a Guardian reader - I'm a Conservative in fact. Conservatives are against public support of private business. So am I. If my farmer friends make a profit and prosper in their business it's theirs to keep. Why should the state bale them out when they fail? By the way - my friends know my views on this. I still shoot on their farms because they want the job done. Also - perhaps you can help me out on the vegetarian wine thing? I thought it was all produced from grapes, do you know of some other kind with meat in it? If so, I'd like to try it. I like meat. Your characterisation of my position on farmers and farming is false. It is a total distortion. What I said about farmers was the following: Farmers are almost unique in British business by being compensated when their product is defective (sick). A good deal of the TB problem has been shown to be caused by trade in animals. The H5N1 outbreak at a Norfolk turkey enterprise was trucked in from Hungary by the affected company but there were attempts to blame wildlife as the vector. The company that caused the outbreak by its poor bio-security received a huge tax payer crock of cash for the dead birds it had caused to become infected. Farmers are a tiny minority of the population of the UK - less than 1% of the population. They can not be allowed to dictate policy against the bulk of scientific evidence. Now that is what I have said, so maybe if you could cut out the personal invective, grow up, act like an adult and point out where my statements are factually in error. This would be a better use of your time than telling me how horrible I am, and trying to characterise me as a lefty for advocating conservative policies (note - that's conservative with a small 'c' - it does make a difference).

Just mind you stay out of the system folders when you start deleting things. If it was mine, I'd be interested to know what programme created all these hidden files. Maybe the computer has been taken over by a bot net and is now a porn server or something nefarious. Get real Evilv!! This is EE here, the whole PC is a porn server, there's nowt else on it! Most nefarious...

Just mind you stay out of the system folders when you start deleting things. If it was mine, I'd be interested to know what programme created all these hidden files. Maybe the computer has been taken over by a bot net and is now a porn server or something nefarious.