Mungler

Why did Putin invade? Well he / his officials have offered up half a dozen reasons none of which make any sense and all still point to a special military operation which clearly isn’t such. I personally don’t think it’s cocaine, Nazis or NATO - I’d put my money on a land grab to the coast. Searching for a reason for an invasion doesn’t change the fact that it’s happened and saying that there must be a ‘reason’ lends a sort of credibility. I didn’t say you did. I asked the question. What is the point to pointing out western hypocrisy and where does that lead to next? Serious question.

Maybe so. Does that then automatically give Putin a free pass to invade Ukraine then?

If you’re going to make the point about Blair’s illegal war in Iraq which I absolutely didn’t ever support, well you can, but it doesn’t alter my view on the morality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine or how that should be dealt with by the global community now. Moreover, where does it take us? Blair and Bush ballsed up twenty years ago and so Putin gets a free pass into Ukraine and no one should say or do anything? I’m pretty sure most Ukrainians wouldn’t agree with that view.

I was scoffed at previously, but I genuinely believe the invasion of Ukraine to be a moral issue. The invasion is the most abhorrent, entirely unnecessary and inexcusable act which cannot be supported directly, indirectly or tacitly. The world slept as Putin previously elbowed his way into his neighbours and the invasion of Ukraine to me is the line that has to be drawn and which has been crossed. When the indefensible is defended or attempted to be explained away, as the posts come forward which are either outright Kremlin propaganda / nonsense or which are overtly critical of Ukraine only (and thus tacitly supportive of Russia) I will happily jump and push back to add balance. The good news is that some of the early overtly pro Russia / Putin posts have calmed down as they have proven to be manifestly untrue and incredibly unpopular against the groundswell of opinion going against Russia and the invasion. That’s pretty much it.

Your love of all things European has made your skin very very thin on the topic of Brexit or any criticism of the EU. The next time there’s a brexit / eu thread I shall watch intently on your balanced approach to the debate 😁

Well, there’s no point is there - we’re out, rowing our own boat and that’s democracy for you. Mind you, it’s since turned out it was democracy heavily influenced by Russian skullduggery 😆 Incidentally there’s a great documentary on Netflix about ‘Wire-card’. It touches on the Kremlin sponsored stirring of nationalism across Europe seemingly to bust up the EU. I digress…

It’s perfectly fine not to believe either side but to consistently only post criticism of only one side (being the invaded party) is noteworthy. I don’t pretend to be neutral - I think Putin is a despotic invading murderer so I don’t have to pretend to have balance in my views 😉

What are you wibbling on about? 😆 Shhhh We can start another Brexit thread if you like 😆

Just on a point of order, I do find it odd that you (and others) post so much content which is ostensibly against any support of Ukraine - the above video focusing on the cost of providing support to a country that wishes to remain independent and repel an invader. Why no video on the cost of this war to Russia? And still no comment or substantive criticism of Putin or Russia? Why is that? I think the best those sympathetic to Russia can muster is ‘Putin’s made an absolute mess of it, he’s sought conflict and failed in his ambitions, indeed he’s losing on every front. Just be wary of a lunatic who has painted himself into a corner.’

This is Vietnam all over again. How hard do you think conscripted troops will fight as opposed to those who are fighting for their freedom and their homes? Well, we’re about to find out, again… Oh I forgot, yes of course, we were told by some on here that Zelensky was going to deposed in a revolt and it would be all over in Russia’s favour by June. Indeed this thread when reviewed will make for some hilarious reading - some of the predictions from the Russian shills are so far from reality it hurts. Mental note : pay no attention to a word they say going forward.

Don’t bother, you will wear yourself out 😆 If you read his long reply to your original post, I think he has actually agreed with you on all fronts, but it’s dressed up in long disagreeable paragraphs. Back on topic, I don’t general or partial mobilisation is going to help Putin much (and certainly not in the short term) or give him whatever it is he thinks this is all about. But hey, he’s a master tactician right and all of this (including the large scale ‘tactical withdrawals’ and significant loss of equipment) is all part of the master plan remember 😆 Indeed, it’s all going swimmingly for Russia right now 👍

At the time the Wall went down the Russian and the Chinese economies were the same size. In the intervening period the Chinese have played a great game of climbing the global greasy pole to arguably get to the top. Regardless of what NATO will or won’t do, you can bet that the Chinese won’t want the world which they have already painstakingly conquered economically and commercially to be turned to glass by some lunatic gangster. Having scraped the prisons for people to fight in Ukraine Putin is first now calling up old service personal - out of shape, out of training and out of the military, and who will now leave their families and normal lives to risk serious injury and death in Ukraine. That’s going to go down well. And training new recruits. Well, who will do that and how long will it take before they can be deployed? I wonder how this will play out in Russia and on the free and open media in that democratic beacon and guiding light that is Russia? 😆

Well and there we have it - general mobilisation. Not good. Rather than sue for peace the loon has doubled down. Vietnam Mk2. Mind you, nothing says ‘going to plan / going great’ quite like general mobilisation. .

Today’s news is that it continues to go very badly for Russia in Ukraine with numerous ‘tactical’ retreats (abandoning all sorts of kit), a leader in hiding and best of all, the top trending search on the Russian version of the internet is currently ‘how to leave Russia’. Oh and there’s a couple of new reports out on Bloomberg and Forbes as to the effect of the sanctions on Russia. Who knew, but it turns out that (a) there are no master tacticians in Russia and (b) the wholly unnecessary invasion of Ukraine was a really really really dumb idea. As long as we’re not all turned to glass, this continues to go in the right direction. This was of course brought to you by NATO lies and MSM misinformation 😆

😆😆😆😆😆😆

The shills are straight in with something negative to say about her 😆 So predictable you could set your watch to it 😆

Good for her and her husband - their lives won’t be made any easier as a result. She’s nailed it of course: “Putin’s war in Ukraine; he is killing soldiers for “illusory” aims, burdening ordinary people, and turning Russia into a pariah state.”

About a decade ago I picked up a 1 owner 190e Merc 2.0 auto F ‘89 plate and less than 70k on the clock for less than £1500 Absolute belter of a car until someone drove into me and wrote it off - properly built and a winner in any accident.

That makes for some interesting reading. Even if half of what the court / jury accepted to be true is true, then this bloke is a proper psycho.

That’s an out of hand dismissal with a side of whataboutery thrown in. We all choose who we want to believe, right?

Is that the best you’ve got? The accounts of torture and murder by Russian soldiers are to numerous to list, and yet are dismissed out of hand by those not with enquiring minds but a propensity to want to believe everything the Kremlin ever says. More will come out with the passage of time and no doubt still be dismissed out of hand by those who chose to close their eyes and claim NATO / MSM / Lizard people lies.

😆

This. The only reason Ukraine got invaded by Russia was because it gave up its nukes. From elsewhere: I think we've more or less established the Russian system by now. When they take over an area they will have a list of people who are connected with the authorities or have served in the army. Most of these will have their hands tied and be shot in the head at once. As more turn up later once things are organised they will be tortured for information then it seems tortured for fun, often to death. Electric shocks, soldering irons, humiliation (all this seems to be done naked), sexual assault, broken fingers, barbed wire in orifices and daily beatings seem to be the main methods, along with cutting off people's genitals, carried out in rooms designated for the purpose. The evidence for this is utterly overwhelming. There are three things about this I find incredible. 1- The industrial scale. In every conflict you get individuals or units who break the rules, in most conflicts you'll find people who really might know something truly vital being tortured. If you point out what Russia is up to you can expect lots of cretinous whataboutery from the usual shills. But this is clearly actual policy, not isolated instances. 2- The sadism. As above, people who have been through it say it goes on for weeks or months. Any practical, if evil, purpose must be sorted in a day or two at most. Months? It's sadism. Where do they find the vast number of people who enjoy this? 3- That they clearly think it's normal. People are exchanged or the body released after this. The British aid worker who died was returned with his genitals cut off. Taira, a combat medic, was exchanged. I'll link to her testimony below (it doesn't contain the details, they are too gruesome, you can find them elsewhere). This could only happen because they don't understand they are doing anything wrong. It's the Russian mindset. The country is a kleptocratic tyranny with the trappings of a democracy. Their armed forces are a bunch of thieves and murderers with the trappings of an organised force. Everything about the place and the people is a sick parody of the civilised, the economic dysfunction propped up with oil revenues, the social dysfunction with a thin gloss of propaganda. So, naturally, they imagine everywhere is the same and the rest of us are a bunch of hypocrites, unfairly picking on them.

Dunno where you’re wandering off to. This is about your constant bonkers cry that Ukraine shouldn’t be supported and armed. Well, just as well it didn’t happen else by now all Ukrainians would be speaking Russian.

Agreed. What it needs is Russia out and Ukraine being fast tracked into NATO…. The suggestion that poorly trained young knuckle dragging Russian troops, convicts and mercenaries scooped from the four corners of the Evil empire could commit war crimes is just ridiculous right, like it couldn’t ever happen. I bet whatever evidence comes out is going to be all fabricated. There, saved you the effort.