JJsDad

Sorry, cant agree. A Prince of Wales stock is of similar appearance but is noticeably different in that the curve created by the grip is not so acute and as panoma1 pointed out the curve of the grip invariably ends in a flat. The link below shows a good example: ttp://www.hallowellco.com/grip.htm

An example of what we refer to over here as a semi or half pistol grip.

Exactly. The most wise words I have read this week. I shake my head in amazement at the number of people who have put up queries on this forum over the last few weeks, asking can they do `this` or `that`. They have clearly never read the licence, and actually think if questioned their defence can be a reply that they got from someone on Pigeon Watch.

That`s what I use; made a little spike for the end which was secured using araldite and a pop rivet. Kick plate is a scrap of angle iron, again pop riveted in place. Job, jobbed. Simples. Twist upper portion to lock & unlock so no plastic thread to `strip` as often happens on the purpose designed versions.

As a result of a PM from a helpful member of Pigeon Watch, I spoke by phone yesterday to a Kent RFD who does not want his details revealing on an open forum; but like many other licence holders is getting a bit sick of Chief Constables making their own laws up as they go along. In some cases this action may well have a hidden agenda in the form of reducing the number of licence holders in a county area. Having complained to The Gun Trade Organisation, BASC etc, he is totally frustrated by the seeming lack of will and progress in getting the various stake-holders around a table to sort out what is slowly becoming a total mess and is causing serious concerns to some licence holders who`s GPs refuse outright to comply with Police requests for supporting letters. In an attempt to bring matters to a head in Kent, he has raised a formal complaint against the Chief Constable for breeching Home Office guidelines. If this complaint is cleared by the Crime Commisioner for further investigation it apparently requires an officer of equal or senior rank to investigate the complaint. While this is in its early stages; he has received an acknowledgement and is awaiting notification of the next steps. I wish him well with this positive action and hope the complaint results in an investigation into the Chief Constables self-appointed policy. The Police are there to enforce existing legislation, it is not their right or role to make the rules up to suit their own agenda`s. I intend speaking again with this chap in a few weeks time to see how his complaint is progressing.

www.practicalsportingsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Nordic-Components.html !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The new licence for Pigeon issued by Defra (GL36) is easier to understand than the previous, now superceded version issued by Natural England; and gives us more scope on where and when we can shoot. However, your question appears to suggest you havent read it ? There are restrictions, and I would suggest you would be very unwise to go out Pigeon shooting until you have read, learnt and inwardly digested what the licence actually say`s. In the highly unlikely event that the Police or a rep from Natural England turned up to question you, it wont be much good saying that a member of the Pigeon Watch forum said it was OK.

Correct, but he made the sweeping statement that non-toxic per se was cheap. His reply, as half expected, didnt answer answer the points I raised; but these professional bloggers with a hidden agenda usually ignore facts that dont suit their train of thought. How about looking at the BASC website and looking at the licence. Its all there plus a load of FAQ and answers.

Motty`s reference to the `old licence` referred to GL31 issued by Natural England. This has now been superceded by GL36 issued by Defra

Well I had a little `dig` about his comments to who-ever on here he responded to, about "being all over the place". He is clearly getting mixed up with plastic wads & re-cycling spent plastic cartridges. As for cheap non-toxic ! I did suggest he checks the price of 25 lead loads and compares to 25 Bismuth or Tungsten. I notice we stand accused of flouting the lead shot ban for wildfowling because he heard it on good authority from someone he knows, who knows someone who said its widespread !! Talk about old women`s gossip. Dont let facts get in the way of of a good anti-shooting rumor, that he has got 3rd hand.

The trouble is, the question of interpretation works both ways. The ink is not fully dry on GL26 (for Carrion Crows) and yet Wild Justice & their ambulance chasing solicitors have evidently being analysing every single word, and have now challenged that. All the time a gullible public are slinging cash at Wild Justice you can bet your bottom dollar that the solicitors will gratefully putting in inflated invoices and crawling all over every single licence that gets produced, with the view to trying to trying to close all the legal loop holes. You wont find Packham & Avery digging into their own pockets thats for sure.

Welcome to Pigeon Watch ! Have you read General Licence (GL) 31 ? Your question seems to suggest you havent, which could inadvertantly lead you into all sorts of trouble.

Apparently he is rather tied up at present doing trade deals with South American countries !

???????

I am no legal expert, so I am not sure if there is anything in this debacle that lends itself to be legally challenged in court ? I have spoken to my Firearms Licencing Dept, who reeled off the stock answer, that the Home Office Guidance is not law. Within the current legislation the Chief Constable has the right to assure himself that the applicant is not a danger to himself or the public by having a firearm. If he wishes to go above and beyond the guidance provided, it appears he is free to do so. This policy (requirement for a GPs supporting letter) is currently being applied by: Police Scotland, Kent, Cheshire, Merseyside, Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire. You can expect this list to grow as Chief Constables decide to make certificate holders lives more difficult ! I have seen documentation that both BASC and NGO are pushing behind the scenes to get all the stake holders around a table and sort this mess out. However, with all the various parties involved, this is apparently like trying to cram smoke into a bottle. You cannot make the Home Office set up a meeting with all interested parties if they dont feel the need to do so.

Yes, but there is no legal obligation for the doctor to respond to any form of enquiry from the Police. Some forces have been applying the policy, that where the GP did not respond within a set period (say 10 - 14 days) they were left to assume there was no medical problem and would then process the application. Kent, amongst other forces have now changed that policy to make a supporting letter mandatory. If the applicants GP has a policy of not responding, neither the Police or the applicant can do a thing about it. However, the applicant is now trapped between a rock & a hard place. I speak from pers experience.

Spoke to BASC on this subject. They are trying to get all stake holders (GMC, Association of Chief Constables, Home Office, Police Firearms reps, NGO, BASC et al) around a table to discuss, with the view to resolving the impasse where some GPs refuse to sign such letters and to have a level playing field over fee`s for this service. It appears this is like trying to cram smoke into a bottle. While they are trying; there appeared no chance of any immediate timetable for this to happen I dont think BASC or any other sporting organisation can challenge the Police Forces who have implemented this. My firearms department were at pains to point out that the Home Office guidance is exactly that. A guide only, its not law. If the Chief Constable feels he wants to implement checks over and above what is laid down in the guidelines, he can. BASC can write to a Chief Constable and complain about heavy handed treatment of licence holders, but I suspect any such letter gets filed in the bin !

The Chief Constable of Kent, amongst others; has implemented a policy where all applications for renewal or initial issue of a SG or FAC certificate must be supported by a Doctors letter stating that the applicant does not suffer from a range of mental health problems and is not prone to drug or alcohol abuse. In the light of a shortly to be published book, The Rt Hon Michael Gove MP has had to admit to cocaine abuse in the past. According to todays paper, he has not kicked this unsavoury habit and his little private parties for the great & good of this world still feature little treats to shove up their noses ! If he lived in Kent, he would be barred from owning a firearm; but can still run for the job as Prime Minister of this country. Is this a crazy world we live in, or what ?

Bit surprised your `model` pigeons with outstretched wings didnt deter them as advised by that font of all countryside knowledge Natural England !

Bit more than `some woman` motty. She is a Director at Natural England. While your analogy to the other woman who was sorting out brexit for us is amusing, I dont think you are comparing like with like. Ms Cotterill`s remarks have been recorded and she does not have the Parlimentary Privilege afforded to our late PM when making statements of policy. I suspect any case brought against someone who had followed the advice laid down in GL31 and additional assurances quoted by Ms Cotterill, would see the charge thrown out of court. Hopefully, when Mr Gove gets over his latest embarassment of shoving coke up his nose before he became an MP, we will see an amended & simplified GL for Pigeon. However, I wont hold my breath !

I am not sure if its my comments above that are in your view blase. I was not referring to shooting over stubble. My comments were in regard to shooting over soya where the damge was evident for all to see. The farmer had put out 3 gas guns, 2 kites & a couple of rope bangers to try to deter them. He was also driving a 14 mile round trip twice a day to try to keep them off. These actions seem to meet all the requirements of the licence. No one on this forum can answer this, as its not defined in the licence, as you almost certainly know. Perhaps you should raise the question with Defra, then we would all be the wiser.

Precisely ! My sentiments exactly and my shooting career is slightly longer. I have now been out 4 times on soya with mixed results since GL31 was issued. The farmer had tried, and was still trying, all the normal deterents when I got a phone call to see if I could turn out to shoot them. If I dont go when asked, he wont ask again & he will quickly find someone who will. He has read and has complied with the GL, and he & I are singing from the same hymn sheet in the highly unlikely event someone phoned the Police to report a couple of guys with guns sitting in a hedge. Couldnt agree more. Those who are seeing anti`s behind every tree, or as one poster on here suggested that I could find myself the victim of an anti with a drone and high vis camera, all I can say is, you have a very active imagination. For those sitting on their hands and not venturing out while they wait for a revised version of GL31, I would suggest they are in for a very quiet summer !

GL31 has been issued and remains valid until 31st Dec 2019 unless it is revised / amended before the due expiry date.

😂 😂

I would have thought that most of the higher management of Natural England & Defra would need to reach for the dictionary in order to understand the term "rush it" !