HW95J

Interesting, thanks for the input 👍 Do you need plastic wad for TSS? Never loaded anything non-lead but in the future might be a must in order to keep the .410 running

Is there a reason for preference of TSS over Bismuth? Just as TSS is a bit more pricey it seems. Different performances?

Well if these can be £45/slab it does make you wonder. It doesn't cost that much more in materials for the additional powder/shot for a game load. I think manufacturers try to justify the cost in relation to marketing and research etc, in reality it's not to do with components. We just get shafted is the take away! It's not like that isn't the case with lead as well, each brand has a million different lines of cartridge and how much difference is there in material cost between say a Black Gold and a Clear Pigeon? Probably nothing like the price difference...

Very interesting to see the wad, especially as it's comprised of traditional materials. There's been so much focus on biodegradable wads with the same shape as plastic which I can see as being an advantage both in time to break down and in patterns but I wonder if not enough attention was paid to this idea of a paper/cork shot-cup. It's good to have variety on the market and see what works. I don't want to lose lead but change does seem to be happening so we might as well be as informed as possible. If they end up working then I'd have nothing against using them. Would love to see smaller bore sizes of that wad for reloading... Keep us posted!

I don't think this has been covered in the other threads on steel yet, apologies if so. JustCartridges now stock the Jocker and BioAmmo steel loads with non-plastic wads. Jocker seems to use a paper shotcup and BioAmmo is a similar set-up to Eley Pro Eco. What interested me was some of the prices, which were a lot more realistic than anything else I've seen. Jocker BioSteel Game 32g 4 are £99 per slab or £349/1000 which is about £8.70 a box. Same brand do a 21g steel clay load with paper wad for £56/slab or £196/1000. BioAmmo Lux Steel 32g 3 or 5 is apparently £387/thou (these have a biodegradable case as well), that's a little cost more than Eley. It's interesting that quite quickly since everything kicked off in February, the market actually does seem to be providing increasingly viable alternatives. Price is a significant factor in deciding whether to give them a try so this could definitely encourage uptake and makes you think what other advances might be out by this time next year. People can at least give them a go to see if they're effective for the shooting that they do. This isn't taking a stance on steel either way, more pointing out that the necessary technology for plastic-free steel loads is perhaps more varied and prevalent than previously suggested to us...

Wax e.g Slippery ****'s? They do a plain one and some with a tint e.g walnut

Very nice, it seems that mainland Europe had more/held onto the ornate designs longer whereas in the UK there was a period of them and now they're all quite plain. I wonder if it's anything to do with the volume used? In France/Belgium/Germany for instance I think they perhaps have a tradition of using a lower volume of cartridges due to their styles of hunting. It would make sense to still put the effort in with a nice design when you're not burning through a number of slabs in an outing. Indeed smaller packs of 10 or even 5 cartridges look more popular abroad which may tie into that. It's not an area I'm very knowledgeable on but that's a few thoughts that others may be able to weigh in on?

That'll be a challenge but you could try Henry Krank, they do 9mm Flobert and a few other less common loads. Pellpax have CCI .22 shot shells so perhaps could order them in .38. Likely expensive and you'd probably have to order a few boxes from wherever to make it worth their while. But shouldn't be impossible

Undoubtedly plastic wad. I've got 100+ unboxed Winchester Rangers of a similar vintage (67mm, shot size 6, I think 30g but not marked). Have established that they're plastic having cut one open. I don't use plastic wads and it seems a waste to use them on clays as I know they're fairly sought-after. With a lot of cartridges you can tell the wad by seeing how much give they have in them (plastic wads tend to have a bit of flex if you press from the side) or holding up to the light. With Winchesters they have a nice good quality hull so neither of those approaches work!

Love the continental designs, especially German and French. Will branch out my collection to include some in the future. For some less picturesque but I suspect quite old examples here's a green 20 bore 'Kynoch's Patent Perfectly Gas-Tight Cartridge Case'. It's got a plain pink overshot card. Head stamped 'Kynoch, 20, Birmingham'. The blue one is a 14 bore Eley London. Numbered overshot (six) and Eley London headstamp.

He seems to be sorted, thanks everyone. Will find out where he got it from!

Definitely tried Beatsons, not sure about which others Cheers for that, will pass on to him 👍

I've got a mate who's putting in some decking and his supply of Type 1 Aggregate hasn't materialised. Local builder's merchants apparently not able to supply for a week or two. He's based near Dunfermline in Fife. Anyone got relevant contacts for this? Looking for 1 tonne delivered ASAP. Thanks in advance 👍

Got a cheap scope on it and keep it very close range, wouldn't stretch much beyond 15 yards personally as I like to play it safe. The layout where I used it for rabbits allowed me to get near enough and it did the job. Mine is a 2250XL and puts out something like 9ftlbs so you just need to be aware of the limitations and be sensible. I'm happier taking my HW95K as it's just a lot more capable but it's all about the specific situation. I can imagine it being a good rig for pigeons in/around farm buildings, nice and lightweight to carry.

Un-suppressed they make a fair noise but with a moderator they're very quiet. I have one mainly for targets but also some rabbits in the past (short range). Mod does what it was supposed to do. Lots of modification potential with these which is good fun