riptide

Just looked up WLC mins available to you on BASC web site ! 13. Moratorium on Greenland White Fronted Geese AEWA requires that GWfG are protected from overwinter mortality. We believe that the voluntary moratorium in Wales, and the limited numbers actually present in England satisfies the AEWA requirements. However, AEWA has received a complaint that this protection is not enough and have now launched an Implementation Review Process (IRP) – basically a disciplinary action against the UK government. Defra have approached us and asked if we would support a voluntary moratorium on the shooting of GWfG in England. This is in recognition of the success of the voluntary moratorium in Wales. The WLC supports an England-wide voluntary moratorium on the shooting of GWfG, provided it doesn’t impact the shooting of European white-fronted geese. Given the slight overlap in potential range of the two races a moratorium may have to cover an area extending north from the Morecambe Bay estuary, north east to the Tees estuary. This could impact on shooting around Morecombe Bay and the WLC agreed discussions should be had with the Lancashire Forum before an agreement is reached. ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ These are Questions that needed asking .Note above reads any moratorium is only for GWF . Who was complaint from ? What scientific information did the complainant have ? Did they present this evidence to the AEWA ? If So were can we see it ? Did DEFRA object and Tell the AEWA that GWF are protected across their range ? Did DEFRA tell the AEWA that no GWF had been taken as quarry in England ? Did DEFRA look at all available research / surveys /currant figures / last years counts ? If Not Why Not ? And on what basis and scientific footing did DEFRA approach BASC ? And did DEFRA make it clear that if we did not accept a moratorium then they DEFRA would put a ban in place on shooting GWF in England ? Also Note the WLC only accepted a voluntary moratorium on GWF across England .. And only discussions should be had with the Lancashire Forum before an agreement is reached. , not just a choice,,, Moratorium or Ban !!!

Well , Just been on phone to James Green or rather he phoned me , I brought up The GWF as against the EWF .Interesting discussion ,along the lines of AEWA have told UK we are not complying to the agreement ,So Michael Grove ,you all know who he is ? He has recently brought to parliament the NEW WAY FORWARD FOR AGRICULTURE and the ENVIRONMENT high on his list is animal welfare ,yes Animal Welfare !! BUT NEVER FORGET HIS DEPARTMENT IN GOVERNMENT comes under the NAME ,, ""DEFRA """ YES the very same government department that says if you are a MUSLIM you don't have to PRE-STUN a animal you can just cut its throat with a sharp knife and see it struggle to escape with its blood spurting from it for up to 5 mins .. yet I a british citizen would be in court with a possibly prison sentence if I did not pre stun !!! well just so you know he has now told BASC and I guess the RSPB that he wants to see the GWF protected as he has had his knuckles wrapped by the AEWA As far as I can see his research is so limited that he does not understand that ENGLAND is not part of the GWF range and the AEWA want the GWF protected over its whole range So why has he said its some action like a Moratorium or a BAN on all White Fronts in england So BASC now between a wall and a hard place so goes along and wants a Moratorium in a few areas of England . So 22 clubs approached I wont at yet say the out come ,, But coming from Grove the great protector of animal welfare it dont look ferckin good !! Oh and one more point don't forget in Holland last year they gassed loads of EWF to control them as they are the most prolific species of goose ,, Once again nothing to do with trying to save the GWF just political hoop jumping at its worst !

Well I am not at all enthusiastic about Long Term Management Plans !!!! at present signing one of them is akin to death by a thousand cuts !! Riptide

It is very important to say that the AUKWC was formed for the reasons shown ,and consents will affect all areas of the UK and that will include Scotland as times are changing North of the Border Look at Caerlaverock ,and some of the other LNRs .. The game shooting issue is a major problem at this point in Wales on public owned areas and BASC are already doing what they can ..Not sure that wildfowling clubs should be involved with those negotiations ,but all game shooters should be and across the country as what goes on in one area can spread to others very fast !! As a founder member of the East of Scotland wildfowling Club I am very aware that wildfowlers in Scotland do need to band together form clubs or join local clubs to protect their sport in the future .. It is sad for me to see the large lack of interest in fowlers not joining the East of Scotland just because they feel they don't need to as fowling is "Free" in Scotland .. sorry to say it's not free as Caerlaverock and Findhorn are showing !! Kalahari do you know if your club or others near you are supporting the AUKWC ? if not could you ask them if they would like to ..Thank You ..

Thanks for reply Alan hope you managed to get Kents response in to NE s Draft by closing time end of September .. The AUKWC sent one in and we sent it to BASC as we want to continue working with Basc to protect the sport !! .. Cheers ..Richard

I have posted this elsewhere but here seems a moreappropirate place AUKWC (Association of UK Wildfowling Clubs ) has now been working hard at the coal face to protect wildfowling in the UK ,instigated by 14 of us back in Oct 2016 with a meeting at Marford MIll at the invite of Peter Glenser as we sent him a signed open letter of discontent now have about 60 clubs backing us as associates and contributors ..And are fighting hard aginst NE over the Consent issue and now a few other topics ,,Speak to your clubs officials to find out more about us .

Yes agree !! Thank you for info as broadens the picture ..

Ok wont disagree on you as the geeses can go were they like but are you saying that GWF ,15 or whatever number are with you on that area all winter and every year ? or is it a one of and that is why the twichers were out in numbers to see them ? ,if the latter is the case then again were is the problem !!! why does their have to be a BAN or a MORATORIUM if only a few and very infrequently ,, in fact maybe the few in Wales just took a day trip to your ground !! It still does not need a ban on all white fronts as that is were it will lead if we don't watch out ..

AUKWC (Association of UK Wildfowling Clubs ) has now been working hard at the coal face to protect wildfowling in the UK ,instigated by 14 of us back in Oct 2016 with a meeting at Marford MIll at the invite of Peter Glenser as we sent him a signed open letter of discontent now have about 60 clubs backing us as associates and contributors ..And are fighting hard aginst NE over the Consent issue and now a few other topics ,,Speak to your clubs officials to find out more about us .

Hi Guys Lets show you the facts WWT do surveys on all geese so take a look Only 1 GWF counted in England -THIS IS not a proportionate response to an non-linked problem. Table 1. Autumn and spring counts in Britain and Ireland, 2016/17 (includes substituted counts; see full report) (From Fox et al. 2017). Region Autumn Census Spring Census Orkney 78 73 Caithness 259 260 Western Isles 184 218 Inner Hebrides 27 29 Lochaber/North Argyll 1,159 1,479 South Argyll 2,726 2,984 Islay 5,585 6,141 Dumfries & Galloway 281 377 Wales 25 36 England 1 0 Other irregular sites (Scotland) 1 0 Britain total 10,326 11,597 Donegal 846 875 North Central 93 99 Mayo 90 91 Mayo/Galway Uplands 43 59 Galway Lowlands 175 148 Clare/Limerick 60 60 Shannon headwaters 114 100 Middle & Lower Shannon 264 281 Midlands 218 199 Wexford 6,977 7,047 Ireland total 8,880 8,959 Population estimate – 20,556 Quote Edit Share Posts 3,112 6:07 PM - Yesterday #6 Sorry Guys,,,,,, but Hey Ho lets crack a nut with a fercking great sledge hammer ,,Look at table above for latest counts and between autumn and spring we have a 10% increase but even so ONLY ONE GREENLAND WHITE FRONTED SEEN IN ENGLAND JUST ONE IS seen in ENGLANDSHIRE so ban shooting of all White Fronts ??? The European White Fronted is a stable increasing population with no problem of taking a sustainable harvest ! In fact we regular see the European whites along the East side of England and are a quarry specious with no threat to the numbers ,,,,,, BASC whose side are you actually on ? No white front shooting in Scotland or N Irland and a Mortuorum in wales that has been so successful its backed by government !! There is no Problem !!! Shooting has no effect on overall population as they dont get shot !!!! the Problem lies in their breeding grounds not here in UK ..in fact look at how many in Wales 25/26 come on much more important ways to help the GWF !!!

Hi Anser sounds to me she has had a good early trainer were holding and offering dummy came first before the retrieves as once you find out how to do it it makes for a easy life as the dog holds it up for you bit less bending to do also will bring close to you on marsh , saves having to show yourself from the hide ...

Also its noted that at least two outside bodys when replying to the consultation have said they want to see consents lasting only 10 year maximum .. well in my club we have always had a 15 year lease and when concents came in they also run for 15 years as we have never had a issue I will accept nothing less than another 15 year consent when I apply in two years time for lease renewal !!!

But we all need to be aware that their are some at NE and in other circles that will use every trick in the book to drive a wedge into the new found working relationship between Basc and the AUKWC , to divide and disrupt is their aim and we all need to rise above those insidious attempts to stay firm and try to protect our sport ....along the road hiccups will happen individuals will say or do something that could upset the apple cart we want to make sure that does not happen and as I said move on when that occurs as the end goal is to important to lose out with inter political squabbles !

As to the 50+ clubs it was formed due to Basc not following the wishers of true fowlers but now with a sea change at Basc we are at last all on bored together on this major issue !!!! Lets work hard to keep it that way no more BASC Bashing but constructive work to achieve what we we alll want ! And I must say its good to see that BASC have already replied that they are not for Bag limits this is interesting as a lot of respondents replied that they saw it as a good way to manage their fowl ,of course NE loaded the question in such a way that you might have felt the bag limit choice was a better way to stay fowling ,When in reality it is not scientifically even proven so well done Basc to flag that NE TRICK UP RIGHT AT THE START !!!

No its not the Norm as a club it should be allowed to set its own bag limits if deemed needed NE have not the staff or knowledges of all ares to just use unverified figures or counts to set a limit ..This is not just my sport its my life long way of life and I know when to stop so much more than a wet behind the ears uni lad or lass taken on by NE and trying to make their mark to get up the employment ladder .. I will not accept bag or visit limits in any way !!!! I will say with visits I can visit a hundred times not fire a shot and leave as silently as I arrived ...Tell that to the Kite flyer the jetski the canoe the dog walker the birdy boy !!!!! I can go on and on but wont ! NE must listen !!!