cliveward

A very similar situation I found myself in a few seasons ago. I had initially looked at a 20 for the youngsters, after realising that a .410 is more expert territory and as Scully says missing kills enthusiasm. So it was a 20 we were after and while going through the racks in the shop to see what was easiest to handle for a youngster we finally settled on a Lincoln 28 Bore as it was quite a bit lighter than the 20s. After myself and the youngsters had smashed a few clays with it, I then promptly nicked it for game shooting and that's what I've been using the past 3 seasons. My shoots are quite informal. Not massive bags so there is a lot more gun carrying / holding than actual shooting and the lightness of the 28, plus the ability to just stuff 20-30 cartridges in a pocket is quite liberating. It is absolutely more than enough gun for sensible pheasant shooting. I use 24 gram #5 or #5 1/2 for game shooting and 21 gram #6 1/2 for pigeons and clays. For beginners I have a very nice 16 gram #9 load that has almost no recoil. I like the 28 bore so much I bought myself one 'proper' this year, rather than nicking the kids gun. Cheers Clive

Hi Esca, Bit late to the party here, but as others have said John is very knowledgeable on the 28 and has some excellent loads. He'll tell you exactly what you need to put in the cartridges. A good tip for the mec is to replace the crimp starter with the Gaep one from him. It's called the "Start crimp (incisore) tool for new cases". With some adjustment you can then get a crimp that is very near factory quality. You can get it exactly factory quality using a rotating finisher in a drill press. My main load is a 21 gram which can be tailored via shot size for clays #7, pigeons #6.5 or game at sensible distances #6 or #5.5. For that I have just machined the charge bar and inserts on the mec to throw exactly what I want. I have another load at 16 grams of #9 for the kids to use on clays and a 24 gram #5 or #5.5 for more demanding game shooting. I do these on the universal charge bar. It needn't get complicated. I do all these loads with 2 powders, 2 different thickness over powder fibre wads and one size main fibre wad. You don't need massive loads in the 28. We were decoying at the weekend and 24 gram Eley VIP #6 were not killing as well as my loaded 21 gram #6.5 in the same barrel of the same gun. Cheers Clive

Hi All, The Svord mini peasant gets my vote. No money at all. Will easily sharpen shaving sharp. Legal for everyday carry and can be opened one handed and no chance of it closing on your fingers unless you are very cack handed. It's the best every day knife I have found having tried quite a few others. Cheers Clive

Hi All, On the crimping side of things and indeed pistol primer use with the .22 Hornet... It is the theory that the thin case gives inconsistent or low neck tension, so when the primer is detonated it can dislodge the bullet by a variable amount before the main propellant charge burns. A small pistol primer has less dislodging force and a crimp helps to even up the forces involved where it is a problem on some loads. My V-Max load doesn't need crimping, but my H&N round nose load does and crimping has greatly improved accuracy and consistency in that load. Cheers Clive

No need to replace the whole thing R6demon. Just stick a replacement T20 Ruby pill in it. It will be more than you need on a HMR. I use one on a .223. Clear target definition at 10x out to 350-400 yards and easily see the backstop out to 600 with a digital add on. Cheers Clive

I would get the fit checked and for both clay and game, opt for some lighter loads, possibly slightly tighter choked to compensate. A light, tighter choked gun can take a little while to 'learn', but it is a pleasure when you get there with it. I've been using a 28 bore for the past 2 years on game and clays and never feel under gunned. Cheers Clive

Yes I should have made it a bit clearer that I wasn't advocating just...'having a punt'. Either use published load data (wad type makes a difference to pressures) or make your best guess and make a few cartridges and send them up for proof testing. Then you will know exactly and still have all your fingers for pattern testing with proofed loads. Cheers Clive

I'm sure it would be possible to work from a 24 gram load and increase the payload to 28 and reduce the propellant and wad length accordingly. Folkestone Engineering do a wide range of fibre wad lengths and may even have load data for it. My favourite home loads are: 24 Gram #5 1/2 for the more open driven shoots. 21 Gram #6 1/2 for woodland driven shoots and pigeons, squirrels, etc. 16 Gram #9 for clays. Cheers Clive

Rich, I looked at both 20 and 28 for my lad who's 10 and it was the lightest gun that won in the shop. That was a Lincoln 28B. Your lad being a bit older would probably be fine for a 20 with youth proportions. The recoil you can sort out with cartridge choice. My lad and his older cousin can comfortably get through 100 16 gram #9 cartridges in the 28 between them without being bashed about at all. I would guess that a heavier gun in 20 with 21 Gram cartridges would be just as comfortable. You can always sort out fit with slip on recoil pads and cheek risers. If you're at all worried the 20 will be too much of a jump, then go for the 28. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, What I would try would be to get a factory unfired 70mm cartridge and then slacken off your final crimp depth screw. Then put the cartridge into the final crimp, close the press ad then adjust the screw down until it bottoms out on the top of the cartridge. Then hold the cartridge up to the light and if you are lucky you should be able to see where the shot finishes. Mark the side of the cartridge and use that as your reference for the stack height when doing your reloads. If you cant see exactly where it is, then you can open up the end of the cartridge and measure it directly. Then you will know your stack height and crimp depth. After that all you need to adjust is the start crimp amount, and then final crimp cam which is detailed in the manual. Either side of correct is hole in the centre or swirled crimp. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, Stack height or column height is the height of the overall components in the load. For instance in my 28 bore 70mm loads it's 60-61mm overall height. Adjust it by changing powder, shot and wad combinations. Cheers Clive

Yep, about 20 minutes down the road which is handy. John's primed cases are £81 per thousand and delivery is £10.50 up to 20KG so you might be able to get some wads in there as well. Powder and shot is probably more sensible to get locally. I also use C&G because they do a 3mm over powder wad which works in my 24 gram load. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, That's better! Adjusting the crimp depth a bit lower (not the cam) might neaten them up a bit more, but you might need to then adjust your column height if the sides of the cases start to buckle. The 'faceting' on new cases was completely cured by using the Gaep crimp start on my 28 bore. 70mm is 2 3/4" so the column bolt shouldn't need changing. It might be that your 67 and 70mm cases are different construction. Put the same load of powder, wad and shot in one of each. Don't crimp it and then measure the stack height. If the 70mm is higher then you can experiment with adjusting the stack height and or crimp depth settings. Cheers Clive

I'm quite lucky that all the components I need are just down the road if I'm running low and to hand I have an ever shrinking sack full of brand new primed cases, 2 types of power, two or three standard types of fibre wad and a selection of shot to make whatever I fancy for the 28 really. The 16 gram load is very good for clays. i use it a lot myself rather than keep swapping cartridges depending on who's shooting. Cheers Clive

I'm no expert at this. Just a fussy ***. Yesterday I adjusted my 21 and a bit gram #7 load to be a 22 gram load to get the stack height just perfect so the crimps were totally flat, where before if the shot throw was a little light they would be slightly concave which bothered me. Been doing the same again this afternoon adjusting a 24 gram #6.5 load to get the stack heigh perfect to suit the crimp. The sensible way would be to adjust the settings on the crimp but it's pretty much perfect now and I don't want to be messing about adjusting it from load to load. I'd rather just fill it up with the right powder and shot, set the charge bar and away we go. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, That's new cases with the Gaep start crimp incisore from Folkestone Engineering. It does work well enough with the standard plastic starter though so get your machine adjusted to work with that and see then if you want to make the upgrade to the Gaep. Follow Spandit's instructions. Check it's set for the right shell height. Back everything off and start from scratch. Cheers Clive

Hi PC1, I don't have any data for PSB+3 in the 28 Bore but here's a couple of loads I use that John at Folkestone Engineering sorted out for me. #9 16 gram load 70mm case 13.1 Grain CSB5 4mm then two 12mm fibre wad 16 Gram of shot Stack height 10mm from top of case before crimping #7 22 gram load 70mm case 18.5 Grain PSB+2SP 4mm then 12mm fibre wad 22 Gram of shot Stack height 10mm from top of case before crimping The 16 Gram load is for beginners to have a go at the clays with, but to be honest since loading it, I've used it myself and it really is pleasant to shoot and plenty of pellets in the air to break clays. The 22 Gram is my general clay / squirrel / pigeon load. When the game season nears, I'll tinker a bit more and work on a 24 Gram 6 1/2 / 6 / 5 depending on the shoot. Cheers Clive Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, I've reloaded some 28 bore this afternoon and took a few pictures for your reference: Initial Crimp: Finished Crimp: Close-up of finished crimp: The black smudge on the close-up near the crimp is the level of the shot before crimping. Cheers Clive

The gaep start crimp tool from john is absolutely awesome. On my 28 bore the crimps went from being a bit hexagonal but useable on new cases to being factory perfect. Perfectly round with a nice bevel so they chamber easily and even work perfectly in a semi auto. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, Check that the overall height of the die set is set for the correct length for your cases. It looks like the start crimp is too low and buckling the case side. Then the swirls are a sign of the finish crimp being too low as well. Double check that the machine is set up for your case length first. Then the start crimp should put the petals at 30 or so degrees as just start the folding process. The cam is a bit of a fine adjustment but you can set the crimp depth using a finished factory shell. Undo the crimp depth adjuster, put in a finished cartridge and then adjust down with the press closed until it bottoms out on the top of the crimp. Cheers Clive

Hi Reggie, For plastic cases and modern fibre wads and propellants, I don't think the seating pressure is that critical. I set mine so that the gauge just moves so I know the wad is seated properly. Get decent working load data from someone like John at Folkestone Engineering, then the stack height will be spot on which helps with successful crimps. If you want 'perfect' crimps then the Gaep incisore crimp star die is absolutely worth buying if a bit spendy. That's taken my 28 bore crimps from good enough to factory standard. When reloading fibre cases that have been once fired the fibre wad will extrude the plastic case to fit the chamber so the reloads will be a sliding fit, rather than drop in. The MEC doesn't resize the plastic. Cheers Clive

Daveo26, It would be a pressure sign if the primers were flattening or cratering. I've not heard of much success with the S&B brass in the Hornet. The most common complaint is the flash hole being too small, along with the reduced capacity. The reduced capacity (thicker wall of the case) may be the root problem. There isn't enough pressure to stretch the case back to the bolt face, but enough pressure to get the primer there. Cheers Clive

Hi All, Just as a bit of an update to keep the info in one place. I picked up some supplies from Folkestone Engineering today, along with the goodies I splurged on one of the Gaep start crimps for new cases. For anyone wondering, it's well worth the cost. The standard crimp tooling on the mec leaves an almost hexagonal profile on the end of the cartridge when crimped, but with the Gaep installed and set properly it rolls and flows the plastic for a pretty much good as factory crimp. Perfectly round with a nice rounded chamfer on the end of the case. Loaded up 150 or so of 21 gram #7 and 50 of 16 gram #9 for my boy to have a go on. Both fibre loads. Cheers Clive

No problem at all. Have fun. Assuming it's a MEC 600 Jr. If you're reloading fired cartridges then it's a good idea to mark on the outside of the crimp starter, where the blades are on the inside. Then you can line it up with the creases on the fired crimp. The 6 point on the 28 bore doesn't self centre like it does on the 8 point for the larger bores. For adjusting your crimp cam, just follow the pictures in the manual for the MEC. Cheers Clive

Page 17 here has fibre data for PSB 2 http://www.gualandi.it/docs/tabpolv_2013_eng.pdf You'd need to sort out your own wad height, etc. though. All of my shoots have been fibre only for years, hence getting into cartridge reloading for the 28. Cheers Clive