docholiday Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nope, cant say I have ever heared one, not to say it hasnt happened but due to energy etc shouldnt happen as much as .22 Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 so the fact its going a lot faster weighs a lot less and has a ballistic tip means they should ricochet further than a .22lr I'm another who hasn't heard one not to say it doesn't happen and you take no chances but its not every round if you have the right conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 so the fact its going a lot faster weighs a lot less and has a ballistic tip means they should ricochet further than a .22lr I'm another who hasn't heard one not to say it doesn't happen and you take no chances but its not every round if you have the right conditions I think the idea is that due to above it disintegrates on hitting anything rather than ricochet Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 so the fact its going a lot faster weighs a lot less and has a ballistic tip means they should ricochet further than a .22lr I'm another who hasn't heard one not to say it doesn't happen and you take no chances but its not every round if you have the right conditions Maybe I am wrong here but doesn't it have a lot more energy to start with? And by your words you are saying that every .22 ricochets? which is also ********. The .17's that I have heard ricochet were all fired in damn near perfect conditions with a good backstop. Don't put too much faith in the ballistic tip either, I would estimate that at least 50% of the rabbits I pick the bullet has past clean through them. They look as if they died of fright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nope I'm saying in the right conditions every .22 will, taken from a day shooting over a grass field with a corrugated iron shed as the secondary backstop and every round pounded into the shed. I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree that the .17hmr rounds driven that fast tend to break up and that small light pieces don't retain much energy, or that the reason they kill so well is that they impart so much of the energy they're carrying on the target animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 OK, to add to the mix: What are reasonable ranges to be expected from shop bought, bog standard ammo. I appreciate some of you are gods and can shave a gnat at 800m, but what is reasonable for us lesser mortals? I've been airgunning for a year now and get out most nights hunting (walking round in hope mostly) and get regular daytime target practice. I'm using an Umarex Airmagnum 850 (.22) which is non-regulated. I've had it through a chronograph at my air rifle club and it showed that every shot is different, which doesn't help my groupings. I've made a rest type thing that bolts to a Workmate to prove to myself that it's not all my bad 'riflemanship'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 But the chink in your argument is IF they break up. In my experience many do not. All I can about your .22 shooting is every round was leaving the first backstop and hitting the secondary one your first back stop was not good enough. I have fired literally hudreds of .22 rounds at rabbits in the last few weeks and the ground being as hard as it is but could count on one (or maybe two) hands the ammount of ricochets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I lamp from a land rover and with the .17hmr usually shoot at between 30 and 100 yds, can go out longer but Im not that good, occasionally take a long shot but not often that succesfull so try and stop myself from doing it, easier to drive closer. if they have gone just keep moving to the next one Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I've had (I think) four ricochets with 17gr V-Max, shooting over stony land, in the many thousands of rounds I put through my old CZ. I doubt they carry as far as a mangled 40gr .22 bullet, but it's still a very sinister noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) But the chink in your argument is IF they break up. In my experience many do not. All I can about your .22 shooting is every round was leaving the first backstop and hitting the secondary one your first back stop was not good enough. I have fired literally hudreds of .22 rounds at rabbits in the last few weeks and the ground being as hard as it is but could count on one (or maybe two) hands the ammount of ricochets. agreed the backstop wasn't good enough in the traditional sense, shot downwards from the roof of a pickup so about 25 degrees, perfectly safe as there was 10000 bales of straw in the barn and we were trying to clear up some tricky rabbits, entertained the farmer who was amazed at the frequency of the ricochets. Since progressing to an HMR I've never had the same happen and shot that spot rather a lot of times back to the OP though as a start if you go .22lr about 75 yards will be reasonable if you go HMR then 125 is quite comfortable. Edited October 5, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Alpha is there anyone you know of who can take you with them for a night or two that has both calibres or 2 people you know of that has either or ? If you could get out with someone and see for yourself then that would probobly be best so you form your own choice / prefference. You really are in a mine feild here chap ! If your ever in my local area your welcome to join me to see what you recon of each calibre ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Alpha is there anyone you know of who can take you with them for a night or two that has both calibres or 2 people you know of that has either or ? If you could get out with someone and see for yourself then that would probobly be best so you form your own choice / prefference. You really are in a mine feild here chap ! If your ever in my local area your welcome to join me to see what you recon of each calibre ! 'Someone' has just offered to bring his guns to my permission (if it has been assessed for them [i'll check with the boys tomorrow]). Edited October 5, 2009 by Alpha Mule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm not sure where some of you .22 fans are coming from? Maybe you're anti HMR? A .22lr is as accurate as a .17 if you know your exact range and zero and you know your trajectory at all ranges to within 1/4 inch, but how about in the field when a little bunny hops out in the lamp light and you think it's miles away when really it's sat on your lap (can't only be me this happens to)? Then there's ricochet. I've shot a couple of thousand HMR in the field with maybe five ricochets. Same field, less than 100 rounds with the .22 and I recon I had more. Maybe the backstop wasn't perfect for the .22, but it was fine for the HMR! A .17 in the wind is no worse than a .22 at the same range. Ok a .17 blows off at 100 yards+, but so does a .22! If we stop acting like we're in a court room and stop bending the meaning of what people are saying, the .17 is a lot easier to shoot accurately and safely in the field. The down side is it's louder. The .22 is near silent with subs and a moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Alpha is there anyone you know of who can take you with them for a night or two that has both calibres or 2 people you know of that has either or ? If you could get out with someone and see for yourself then that would probobly be best so you form your own choice / prefference. You really are in a mine feild here chap ! If your ever in my local area your welcome to join me to see what you recon of each calibre ! Sorry, I just noticed your offer. 2 young kids, starving hungry and kicking up stink does that to you I reckon you are about 100 miles from me, which isn't so terrible (it's been a while since I've been out on my bike ). Let me see how my permission sits with calibers allowed and I'll give you a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Where in South Wales are you mate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Where in South Wales are you mate ? About 2 miles east of Llantrisant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benellimelody Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I'm not sure where some of you .22 fans are coming from? Maybe you're anti HMR? A .22lr is as accurate as a .17 if you know your exact range and zero and you know your trajectory at all ranges to within 1/4 inch, but how about in the field when a little bunny hops out in the lamp light and you think it's miles away when really it's sat on your lap (can't only be me this happens to)? Then there's ricochet. I've shot a couple of thousand HMR in the field with maybe five ricochets. Same field, less than 100 rounds with the .22 and I recon I had more. Maybe the backstop wasn't perfect for the .22, but it was fine for the HMR! A .17 in the wind is no worse than a .22 at the same range. Ok a .17 blows off at 100 yards+, but so does a .22! If we stop acting like we're in a court room and stop bending the meaning of what people are saying, the .17 is a lot easier to shoot accurately and safely in the field. The down side is it's louder. The .22 is near silent with subs and a moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) the jury is still out on caliber. Long range and knock-down V 'silence' and price. Can someone give me an idea of prices of ammo as no sites seem keen to advertise prices even though I know they can't sell on-line? OK, a slight variation on the question then. I reckon my pocket may be able to afford a CZ (depending on whether I sell my bike to raise some cash (how will I survive without my right arm???) and leave enough to placate the wife. I currently have a synthetic stock air rifle and quite like the idea that it is fairly robust and impervious to water (to an extent). I like the look of the CZ Silhouette's but have read that they are a bit on the flimsy side compared to the wooden stocks. True? To what extent? What is the weight difference? Why do the 16"barrel models seem to cost more (on Gun Trader)? Thanks for all the input folks, this is helping believe it or not Edited October 6, 2009 by Alpha Mule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 .22 ammo is about £40 for 500 If you go after a CZ look ABS/Nickel and buy 16" you will only want to have it chopped later if you don't, and that will cost more. The plastic stocks are fine. Oh and they weigh next to nothing compared to a centrefire, or some airguns for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 HMR ammo is anything from £9.50 -£11.50 per 50 but well worth the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 i have just bought .17hmr v shock at £13.30 for 50 doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 If money is really tight you wont beat a .22lr. You can get some very cheap but functional rifles and the ammo is a lot cheaper. But hmr is only 25p per shot, so not exactly a wallet buster. My advice to all beginners is buy a hmr, they're safer and easier to shoot well. When your bunnies get spooked by the shots (it will take a while for them to twig it) in a few months time, you'll be a better shot by then and a .22lr would be a good second gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) spooking is rarely an issue, we've found dead rabbits don't spook but for a beginner its a cracking caliber. The LR is one step up from an air gun the HMR is another step almost between a rimfire and a centrefire. Edited October 6, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 My advice to all beginners is buy a hmr, they're safer and easier to shoot well. When your bunnies get spooked by the shots (it will take a while for them to twig it) in a few months time, you'll be a better shot by then and a .22lr would be a good second gun I disagree with your logic. Surely buying a .22LR, that requires you to develop and hone your skill in fieldcraft, range-judging and precision marksmanship, and (vitally) requires you to learn how to shoot safely, is a better learners' calibre? Surely you want to encounter (and where necessary learn to mitigate) richochets, looping trajectories and over-penetration before you migrate to centrefires?! I learnt with a .22LR and I am pretty confident it gave me a better grounding in marksmanship, safety and sneaky-beaky fieldcraft than most .17HMR-wielding newcomers to the sport would attain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I would agree with baldrick in fact people who came up through airgunning are quite often the best quiet stalkers, and shots for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.