Sqwelchy Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Can these dogs be used as gun dogs? Mr farmer has had a litter of them and i would love a gun dog. For 180 quid i dont think this is a bad price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 There sheep dogs ... you know ... for herding sheep. If you want a gundog then get the one that will suit what you want it for. No point getting one n then having to get another because you bought the wrong one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwelchy Posted January 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Yes i know there sheep dogs,farmer has 500+ sheep and uses them. Just wanted to know if they can be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Good luck if you get one my mum has got a four month old collie and its put me off owning one forever. You need to spends alot of time with them they get bored very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Bigthug, I've seen one used in the field and the French use them a lot. Why can't the most intelligent breed of dog out there be used to flush and retrieve? They need to be worked and will get destructive if they aren't mentally challenged. I see no reason whatsoever why the collies natural instincts can't be used for rough shooting, and they will pick up retrieving easy. Remember that spaniels have to be taught to retrieve too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 one of the dog's i dont like never stop yapping and they nip at your ankles but like whats been said before they're probably the most intelligent dog's there is.so i can't why not.my mate has a jack russell,a jack russellxcollie and they put most gundog's to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwelchy Posted January 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Need to try and persuade my mum to let me get on as we already have a 13 year old Alsation (carn't spell) xcollie. It would be nice to get one now as it'll give me a few months to train him up in time for the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Bigthug, I've seen one used in the field and the French use them a lot. Why can't the most intelligent breed of dog out there be used to flush and retrieve? They need to be worked and will get destructive if they aren't mentally challenged. I see no reason whatsoever why the collies natural instincts can't be used for rough shooting, and they will pick up retrieving easy. Remember that spaniels have to be taught to retrieve too. Lots of dogs can be trained to flush and retrieve. The point I was making is if you want a dog for that type of work get one that has been selecttivly bred for hundreds of years to do that exact job! Not one that has been bred to herd sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Need to try and persuade my mum to let me get on as we already have a 13 year old Alsation (carn't spell) xcollie. It would be nice to get one now as it'll give me a few months to train him up in time for the summer. Don;t rush the gun mate. You wont have the dog flushing and retrieving by the end of the summer. Maybe next summer if you work hard at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 why not just get a lab or a spaniel? fair enough you might have to get one with no papers at that price but they have been bred do do a job that your wanting to get a dog for? it's a bit like buying a porsche to go off roading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) If you want to herd rabbits go for it otherwise it might proove all too much hard training and never get it right, as said above - horses for courses. Edited January 16, 2010 by malkiserow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 why not just get a lab or a spaniel? fair enough you might have to get one with no papers at that price but they have been bred do do a job that your wanting to get a dog for? it's a bit like buying a porsche to go off roading If you want to herd rabbits go for it otherwise it might proove all too much hard training and never get it right, as said above - horses for courses. Finally people talking sense Try to find a lab or spaniel mate. Damn good hunting dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Lots of dogs can be trained to flush and retrieve. The point I was making is if you want a dog for that type of work get one that has been selecttivly bred for hundreds of years to do that exact job!Not one that has been bred to herd sheep. Not disagreeing with you mate, I'd go for a lab or spaniel just because they're my favourite breeds. I honestly can't see why a collie can't be trained to do the relatively easy task of smelling an animal, finding it, flushing it and bringing it back. There is a collie in Holland that has 120 odd commands and even the amateurs can get the dogs to do basically anything and everything. I don't see how watching a bird land and picking it up later on is beyond a collies abilities either. Not doubting the breeds which are best for the job, but we don't all have to follow the same path as everyone else. I think it'd be an interesting challenge to turn a collie into a gundog and IMO it would be a challenge the collie would overcome. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 With respect.....dont be so stupid Borders have been bred and conditioned over many years to herd domestic animals, Like retreiving is built into the genes of a Retreiver and Springer..... so is the genetic urge for a Border to round up and contain. You could of course train it to retreive as you can any dog but more likely when its in the field its natural instinct will be to herd and you will end up giving it a complex?. We had a border called Gem when we married and it was the most intelligent dog ive ever known but it wasnt a springer or a lab. Im sure people will post saying it can be done but if you are looking for a Rolls Royce why would you want to buy a Mondeo :( If you are that desperate for a dog get down to the Dogs home and get a gun dog and leave the Borders to do what they are bred to do. Plus Borders are not as adaptable as Gun dogs and need probably twice as much exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Only dog to have gone for me. If you have kids or don't live on 1000 acres then give it a swerve As a breed I can't trust them and so don't like them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Good point Mungler.... When our kids were young the Border occassionally used to try and contain them in the corner of the Kitchen, used to show its teeth and growl....It was only doing what it thought we wanted it to do but we kept the kids and the dog well apart for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) I do agree with some of the comments above, ie get a Springer or Lab. Second to Labradors i do love collies, and have seen them pick up in the line. They Are probaly the most intelligent animal around and Although i havent trained one to the gun i would love to. Edited January 16, 2010 by lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwelchy Posted January 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 Cheers guys Wouldn't ever get a springer again because of the last one we had was just a little ******* of a dog. Peeing everywhere and wouldn't stop grouling. So i will start thinging about a lab or Andrex dogs as i like to call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 what about a cocker? ive had a springer before and while i have'nt ruled out getting another,i tried a cocker.he's great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 There sheep dogs ... you know ... for herding sheep. If you want a gundog then get the one that will suit what you want it for. No point getting one n then having to get another because you bought the wrong one I cannot see either why a Collie couldn't....a farmer I know had a Bearded Collie he used for sheep & for shooting, & it could put a good few of the so called proper gundogs to shame. BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 My collie not much use but he will flush game realitivly well. Only reytrives balls and sticks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I cannot see either why a Collie couldn't....a farmer I know had a Bearded Collie he used for sheep & for shooting, & it could put a good few of the so called proper gundogs to shame. BJ I didn't disagree with the fact a collie COULD do it. But for the majority of peop;e you would be much better off with a dog that has hunting bred into it like a lab or a spaniel!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I think the trouble with a collie is, they are far too intelligent. They bark and nip ankles as mentioned and all in all, they arn't really a retreiving or flushing dog. Saying that, I met a chap who has one for HPR and the dog does it very well, trouble is, if the game runs or flies, the dog gives chase. Avoid it if you havn't got all the time in the world to entertain it. Very sly dogs and not worth the trouble to be honest with you. As said, get a cocker or a springer or a sprocker. Maybe even a lab or a retriever. Whatever you choose, good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Some of the shoots I go on have Sheep in the fields and the dogs are expected to pick birds that fall in the same field. I think it could be risky sending a natural Herding dog amongst sheep and expect it to pick a single fallen bird. I'd stick with a dog thats bred for the job - but the choice is yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I used to have three Border Collies and trained them up to the gun when I started shooting with a shotgun. They were around three to four years old at that time and I only had partial access to them as I had split with my wife. They all made excellent dogs for rough shooting and beating. The main difference between a collie and a springer is that the collies soon learned to avoid the areas that were obviously not going to hold game and therefore concentrated their efforts on the areas that did. I got some strange looks when I turned up at shoots with two or three collies, but I was always asked back as my dogs genuinely worked under control and independently of each other. They didn't follow one another round as you see many dogs that are kept together do. Twenty years on and people still complement me on those dogs. After the collies I had a long haired GSD bitch that also was trained to flush and retrieve. One snowy beater's day when she was the only dog in a walking line of 8 guns she flushed and retreived 54 pheasants. She had the added advantage of ensuring I got plenty of room in the beater's van too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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