1 : 9 twist....1 : 12 twist, what do i do........and why.

[mayfly36]

Im after some advise guys. My future intention is set on a rem 700 SPS Varmint which as far as i know only comes in a 1 : 12 twist, or a Model 700™ XCR™ Compact Tactical which comes in a 1 : 9 twist for the .223. Now can some one explain why i shoud get a 1 : 9 OR A 1 : 12 twist. This will primarily be for Fox control, which would be beneficial for Fox Control if any etc etc etc.

 

XCR . http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...t-tactical.aspx

 

Varmint . http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...ps-varmint.aspx

Edited January 20, 2010 by mayfly36

[Dunkield]

In simple terms, the faster twist rates will stabilise heavier bullets.

If you are only shooting up to 55grns for instance 1:12 will be fine, if you want to shoot heavier bullets like 69grns you will need the tighter twist.

 

I am sure the reloaders will be along to fill in more detail but that is a rough overview.

[seeker]

For some background here's a barrel makers recommendations:

http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Perhaps your bullet choice will help you decide - but aren't most of the heavier (ie longer) ones mostly specialist target bullets? So, as Stuartp says 1:12 keeps it simple.

[al4x]

I've got an SPS thats 1:9, I believe the difference is that it has a hogue stock and standard barrel weight. Nice gun shoots very well only changs are a timney trigger and realistically its more accurate than I am. I'm using 55grain norma ballistic tips at the moment which are pretty devastating on foxes. The heavier bullets as far as I understand it for general shooting help if its particularly windy where you are but personally most of my shots are sub 200 yards at night so really I've not found any need to go heavier

Edited January 21, 2010 by al4x

[Mr_Logic]

The SPS Tactical has a heavy, 20" barrel with 1:9 twist. Mine shoots pretty much any weight of bullet from 35 to 75 grains, just not the Hornady 75gr A-max.

 

I've moved to .308 for targets and my lightweight CZ for fox, so I'm selling it, but it's a very good gun.

[mayfly36]

so you have a sps tactical "the xcr"mr logic. If so 1 ; 9 is ok for fox etc. im torn between the twist, yes and the bullet

[Dekers]

so you have a sps tactical "the xcr"mr logic. If so 1 ; 9 is ok for fox etc. im torn between the twist, yes and the bullet

 

I've been out with Mr L and this SPS several times, it does work very well out to great distances!!

[cooter]

My SPS is a 1:9 and I have used weights from 40 to 69 grn.

It really likes 40 and 60 grn Noslers, but the 55grn SP I use mostly have been fine out to 200 yards, which is plenty for most fox.

 

HTH

[macca]

Hi,

go for a 1in 9 twist simply because it gives you a better range in bullet weight to work with. Also the 1 in 9 is better for stabilising long light pure copper bullets such as the barnes.

Cheers

[mayfly36]

Have made a final decision, tell me your thoughts please...Now not everyone might agree, but i think im pleased with my choices. Everyone to their own.

Rem 700 SPS Screw cut 1:9 twist.

Moderator : wildcat.

scope 6 x 24 x 56 IR.

Edited January 22, 2010 by mayfly36

[mayfly36]

my mistake, would love a schmidt and bender.

[Mr_Logic]

I'd not get a Wildcat mod for it because they're too heavy, much prefer an ASE CQB.

 

I'd not get that level of magnification either on a 223, much rather have the best glass and lower (12-16) mag.

 

But they're good guns.

[mayfly36]

Yes now thats what im after, good advise. :blink:

[mayfly36]

could you point me in the right direction Mr L for the above mentioned.

[Mr_Logic]

For a scope? What's your budget?

 

BTW, Adenbourne now has my old Remington, P/ex today against a Browning 525, so I suspect a good deal can be done! Shoots well

[mayfly36]

SCOPE....£500 TO £800. I WANT A MILDOT .

[Mr_Logic]

First up, what's your reason behind mildot? They are a good reticle, but others can be had which perform a similar role for most people (since most people in the civilian world use the dots for drop, not judging range).

 

Meopta do the 4-16x44 which has excellent glass (had one for a while but sadly it proved faulty, I had another Meopta which I should never have sold and still regret to this day). That's listed on Opticswarehouse at £761, which is very annoying as when I got mine they were about £550, but hey ho!

 

Back in the day (OK, the start of last year) we'd be talking the bottom end of Swarovski with a TDS-4 ret, but sadly their prices have close to doubled in a year (allegedly due to the exchange rate going up by approx 30%, and now it's closer to where it was again - I smell a large stinky verminous creature with a wiry tail, but hey ho...)

 

Since we're now further into rip-off Britain than you can poke a stick at, your options beside Meopta are:

 

Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x50 (Varmint Hunter, not mildot, ret, but I have two - they're damned useful!) at £681 (all prices Opticswarehouse)

 

Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 or 50 (OW don't list the 4-16x50 mildot but IIRC it does exist) at £377 for the 4-16x42

 

Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 Tactical at £525 (People will recommend the 6500 series I'm sure, personal preference - I had a 6500 for a day and it was cack, I have a 4200 which is used all the time and I get on with it - perhaps my 6500 was duff but I wasn't a fan, optically it was bloody awful)

 

If you're feeling cheap, Falcon make some decent scopes for not-much, although all of the above are better.

 

I have had or still use any of the above. the only other one I can think of is the Leupold Mark 2 6-18x40, which I also have and is very good indeed, although the eye relief is a bit weird.

 

Any of the three work well - Leupold has the best adjustments and the best glass (this is a bone of contention, but i've spent a lot of time comparing, and my Leupolds are better than my Bushnell (and were 3x the price - I got good deal on my 4200). They were also better than the Nikon I had, but only by the tiniest anorexic whisker of whiskers. I sent the Nikon back, but only because the eyebell was too big for the bolt throw on my CZ - I'd still have it otherwise.

 

I've assumed that we're talking plainly shooting foxes with this rifle - it'll do targets as well, but a serious target scope will have target turrets, so only the Bushnell will tick that box as well. HTH!

[mayfly36]

yes mainly fox with the option for some longer shots, hence the bigger scope .idea. Novice i am at this calibre, a lot to take on board, was told something similiar about the leupold re eye relief.

[macca]

Hi,

simple is best. For fox shooting a night, and practical long distance day shooting for a 223 - an 8X56 kahales with a No. 4 reticle is simply the best. Great field of view, brilliant clarity and you dont have to play around with parallex or power rings. Put the crosshair on the target and pull the trigger.

Cheers

Edited January 24, 2010 by macca

[Mr_Logic]

I don't agree. Yes for the most part 8x is enough, but a bit more power has often come in handy. As has an aim point to allow for some drop more easily.

 

I do agree that Kahles make some damn fine scopes though.

[maddog546]

I have an 8 x 56 S&B on my remy 700 SPS and find it a superb scope for the task ,the most recent fox being taken at 300 yds illuminated by my Lightforce 170 which is mounted ontop,the thing I like about the fixed power being the quick recognition and clarity of the image with this scope.

After all that fox is not always prone to hanging around while you mess around with magnification and parallax,the Khales I have on my 270 is a variable mag but you have a bit more time to make adjustments when stalking Deer,mine you its an awesome scope at night as I took two foxes at 160 yds plus the other evening ,with the mist making the task harder,the extra clarity was an advantage but I had set it on 8 times mag before venturing out.

You have a job to beat German glass for clarity and its at night you'll quickly notice which is best.

[macca]

Thanks maddog,

another shooter who thinks simple is best. All my work rifles are non parallex and any variables are only up to 12 power. I only wish they were all kahales. My work guns are super 10 MKIII (17cal full power 1050fps), brno model 1, kimber 17MKII, Sako HB A1 in 17MK IV, Sako 491 HB 223, tikka M55 in 6mm BR dasher and Rossler Titan in 708.

Cheers

[inthedark]

I've got a Remy 700 that has a 12 - 42 nightforce on it, and I'd swap it tmrw for a 5.5 x 22

Also a Browning A bolt with an 8 x 56 S&B

 

Both .223's, used for foxing, and the Schmidt is the easier scope to use, takes them out to 300 no probs and that's more than enough, I'd guess the average fox shot is around 80 yds. 6 or 8 x magnification is plenty

[mayfly36]

what sort off money do the kahales scopes run at.

[Dekers]

I've got a Remy 700 that has a 12 - 42 nightforce on it, and I'd swap it tmrw for a 5.5 x 22

Also a Browning A bolt with an 8 x 56 S&B

 

Both .223's, used for foxing, and the Schmidt is the easier scope to use, takes them out to 300 no probs and that's more than enough, I'd guess the average fox shot is around 80 yds. 6 or 8 x magnification is plenty

 

 

Everyone is going to have an opinion on scopes and nothing is right or wrong, if it suits the individual then it is fine!

 

I have 7 different FAC tools, they are all MilDot, all have parallax adjustment and they are all variable mag, they also all start quite low on the mag and only go up to 16 in most cases, one is 22x!

 

I have a lot of different sites, a lot of different situations, a lot of different quarry, a lot of different rifles, and a lot of different ammo to choose from, but this set up suits me.

 

Remember also that a variable mag scope is also VERY good for long distance target identification, I may well confirm a target at 12-14-16x whatever and crank it back to 6 or 8x for the shot! I commonly shoot out to 200 yards in the field with 6 or 8X mag at the most, I know others who like to wind it up much higher than that.

 

Time and experience will lead any shooter to what suits them best...and at the end of the day that's all that counts!!

 

 

Yeh...and lots of isssues about twist rates as well!!