Northern Ireland FAC waiting times - anything we can do?

[Ozzy Fudd]

fat dogs right, ive given the letter to a couple of people but sed to change a few things. heres the letters if you want inspiration, bit long worded but i thought sod it, i pay my taxes so they can take 5 mins to read it

 

(ps i put ollie in as a good mate - thought it sounded better than a bloke i know through a shootin website )

 

 

Dear Mr xxxxx

 

I am one of your constituents living in the xxxxxx area and wanted to draw your attention to a matter affecting myself and many other people living not just in this area, but in the whole of Northern Ireland itself. I am a registered firearms owner, along with almost 200,000 other people in the north, however we feel that we are being treated like second class citizens by the PSNI/Civil Service when it comes to our sport, hobby, and in some cases, occupation.

 

As you may (or may not) be aware, to become a firearms owner you must submit an application form to the PSNI Firearms and Explosives Branch, Lisnasharragh, Belfast, and pay the relevant fee. Also if you wish to purchase a second, third, etc, firearm, you must submit another application form; also, to renew your licence (which lasts 5 years) you must submit a further form. Although the forms are complicated most people dont mind filling them, however the waiting lists for the licences to be granted are, in no other word, ridiculous. In England/Scotland/Wales a first time firearms application is usually granted within 3 to 4 weeks of the initial application - over here a wait of 6 months is to be expected, and it is usually longer. For the grant of a variation to a licence (eg adding another gun), in England/Scotland/Wales, again, a 3/4 week wait is the norm, at the moment here it is an expected 6 months+.

 

As you can understand this is leaving prospective and existing firearms holders feeling discriminated against. Whilst we understand that the security situation here causes some extra problems a good friend of mine was told last week that the reason there is such a delay is that there is a back log of approximately 1000 applications, and that the firearms processing office is currently understaffed! Another problem is the issue of receipt letters. When an application for renewal, variation, etc, is submitted the PSNI issue a letter to the certificate holder which enables them to continue to purchase ammunition when not in possession of their actual licence. These letters usually arrive within 14 days of submitting an application, however at the moment it takes much longer - one person I know had been waiting over 6 weeks for his receipt letter, never mind his full licence! This can cause severe problems as there is a limit of how much ammunition you can legally have in your possession - if you run out you cant replace it.

 

Apart from, as I said, it leaving us feeling victimised (many feel that the PSNI are deliberately working slowly to try and put people off becoming legal firearms owners) it has a large impact on wider issues, especially the economy and health - people like myself are often asked my farmers to engage in pest control services for them, both in the protection of crops/livestock from pests/predators, and also to combat health issues, such as birds roosting in barns and leaving droppings on machinery, and rats eating grain and infesting farm yards. The fact that we are hindered by waiting times has a great effect on carrying these tasks out. Also there is a wider impact on the economy than farming - gun dealers, clay pigeon grounds, shooting estates and even the forestry commission lose revenue, and also the government lose out on application and variation fees (application £50, variation £26) due to people being put off by waiting times.

 

 

I acknowledge that our assembly has not had policing and justice powers devolved yet, so I'm not sure if theres anything that you can do to help the situation, but I thought it was necessary to draw your attention to it in the hope that you somehow may be able to help - even just acknowledging the problem at Assembly level would be an achievement and hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

xxx xxxx

[Fat Dog]

Top man Babbs, thanks

[tweedledee]

i think you will find mla`s have no control over firearms licensing.it still falls under the psni bracket and you know the mine field that is at the minute. the gun traders over here are fighting an ongoing battle at the minute and not getting much joy.as i said i have been down this route already.

[Ozzy Fudd]

if you look here

 

I acknowledge that our assembly has not had policing and justice powers devolved yet, so I'm not sure if theres anything that you can do to help the situation, but I thought it was necessary to draw your attention to it in the hope that you somehow may be able to help - even just acknowledging the problem at Assembly level would be an achievement and hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

i basically said i know they have no control, but one thing i do know (from recent experience) is that the cops do not like politicians breathing down their necks

Edited January 21, 2010 by babbyc1000

[GW80]

that would be my own concern sure i can't see it do any harm contacting our politicians but BASC,Firearms dealers and wildfowling clubs have been fighting this battle for a few years without much success, but hey might as well try!!

[tweedledee]

they will just say that folk have to be properly vetted for the suitability of owning firearms. you think the police are going to rush them out just to suit us??? i don`t think so.don`t think i am`t on for quicker licensing but i can`t see it happening any time soon

[Ozzy Fudd]

fair enough, we have to be properly vetted, i agree, but why does it take so long if youre an existing fac holder? if i wanted to add an air rifle in a couple of months why should it take 6 months to re-vet me? especially if i already own shotguns and rifles?!

 

dont get me wrong, im not sitting here expecting it to be sorted out next week, but what harm can it do by taking 15 minutes to send an email or two?

[davie mac]

I sent an email to some of my MLAs this morning and i have just got this back

 

 

Dear Mr.xxxx I have read with interest your concerns in relation to prospective and existing firearms holders. I have written to the Chief Constable and have raised your issues and concerns. When I receive a response to these matters I will again be in touch. Regards Samuel Gardiner MLA

Edited January 22, 2010 by davie mac

[Ozzy Fudd]

heres what i got so far, very interesting responses still waiting for two more (nothing from the shinners yet)

 

 

 

 

 

Dear xxxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter I will look into this problem and contact the PSNI in relation to speeding up the application process.

 

Dominic Bradley

SDLP MLA for Newry and Armagh

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr xxxxx

 

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to write to me regarding this very important issue. I can confirm that I and my staff in my offices in Markethill and Tandragee have been trying to assist a large number of constituents renew their Firearms Certificates over recent months, and I share your frustration at the current system in place.

 

I believe there is a policy, operated by senior elements in both the PSNI and the Government, to greatly reduce the number of legally held Firearms in circulation in NI, and that this is in itself politically motivated, due to historic reasons.

 

I am of course very happy to assist in any way with individual applications, either for yourself or other friends and associates. I believe the figures you quote in relation to the present backlog are accurate, and these will continue to slow the system down, which in turn dissuades people to apply. Whether the possible devolution of Policing and Justice powers to the NI Assembly would or will make any difference remains to be seen - I am not convinced!

 

Please feel free to contact me or my staff if we can assist you in any way - I have listed the contact numbers below for your convenience. In the meantime, I wish you well with your interest and hobby.

 

Kind regards

 

Danny Kennedy MLA UUP

 

 

 

 

 

 

xxxxxx

 

Thanks for your email on the issue of firearms licensing processing delays.

 

It certainly is something that many of my constituents have mentioned to me in the past. In fact as an elected representative I get scores of applications to fill in and I must admit the forms in my opinion are overly complicated for all the necessary information that is required - especially in what should be a simple case of adding or removing a weapon.

 

I also find the costs expensive for simply processing a piece of paper.

 

The waiting times are unacceptable and I know it is something that our Party has raised in the past and will continue to do in the future. I shall mention this matter again to our Party Officers and see what more could be done to highlight this issue.

 

I trust this is useful and in the meantime if you have further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Cllr. William Irwin MLA DUP

Newry & Armagh Constituency

Edited January 22, 2010 by babbyc1000

[ollie]

Those replies were good Babby, but the thing is will they actually do anything or just brush them under the carpet along with everything else?

[monkeyboots]

i suppose emailing etc would help but to be honest i think it will be a waste of time if basc/sacs and the gun trade cant do anything about it then i cant see a few emails to mla doing much good

Edited January 22, 2010 by monkeyboots

[Ozzy Fudd]

the only one i can speak for is danny kennedy, as he's the only one i know personally, and he's not the type to brush things under the carpet, far from it in fact. but i think his reply is an eye opener, and also a big step forward - if an elected mla believes that there is a top level psni/government policy (or conspiracy...) and is willing to admit that he believes that, then surely that would be something the likes of basc, etc, can use to their advantage :blink:

 

anyway, the simple way i see it we have two choices. we can continue to sit on here, bitching/whining/moaning (and yes, im one of the worst) about how unfair our waiting times are compared to the rest of the uk, or we can take 15 minutes to send an email to our local mla's to try to do something about it - even if it doesnt work surely its better than doing nothing, and you never know, if enough pressure is put on the psni to give answers they may give the wrong one - ie they think theres too many legal guns and want to cut the numbers, which in my eyes would leave them wide open to legal action by the gun trade and basc, etc.

[Fat Dog]

Babby, I agree, nothing will change if we dont have a wee moan. Got nothin to lose. :blink:

Edited January 23, 2010 by Fat Dog

[davie mac]

the only one i can speak for is danny kennedy, as he's the only one i know personally, and he's not the type to brush things under the carpet, far from it in fact. but i think his reply is an eye opener, and also a big step forward - if an elected mla believes that there is a top level psni/government policy (or conspiracy...) and is willing to admit that he believes that, then surely that would be something the likes of basc, etc, can use to their advantage

 

anyway, the simple way i see it we have two choices. we can continue to sit on here, bitching/whining/moaning (and yes, im one of the worst) about how unfair our waiting times are compared to the rest of the uk, or we can take 15 minutes to send an email to our local mla's to try to do something about it - even if it doesnt work surely its better than doing nothing, and you never know, if enough pressure is put on the psni to give answers they may give the wrong one - ie they think theres too many legal guns and want to cut the numbers, which in my eyes would leave them wide open to legal action by the gun trade and basc, etc.

 

 

spot on big lad :blink:

[Cannon]

Quite impressed with the speed and nature of responses. I too shall be forwarding a few emails to local MLA's shortly. It's not as if we're asking for a major change in policy is it? I mean all we're asking for is a faster response rate. Understandably there are firearms/licencing management procedures in place, but 6-9 months is a tad long to wait. The vetting process I'm sure is very thorough, but I can't help but get the feeling that we are being made to wait deliberately. Almost as if they are waiting for us to do something so they can refuse to issue a licence. I'll post here if I get any replies from emails. Good job on the articulation of the letter Babby :blink:

[Ozzy Fudd]

cheers lads, keep posting up any replies you get

[monkeyboots]

i emailed my local mla"s so i will see what/if i get any replys

[ollie]

Well I have sent my letter to the 6 MLA's, I will post replies.

[monkeyboots]

reply from mervin storey dup

Thanks for the email. This is a serious problem and one that has been raised a number of times with the PSNI. I am happy to do again.

 

When I have received a response i will be in contact. I will also have a chat with my colleague Ian Paisley Jnr and discuss with him how we could take further action to address this issues you have raised.

 

Regards

 

Mervyn

[ollie]

Thanks for the email. This is a serious problem and one that has been raised a number of times with the PSNI. I am happy to do again.

 

When I have received a response i will be in contact. I will also have a chat with my colleague Ian Paisley Jnr and discuss with him how we could take further action to address this issues you have raised.

 

Regards

 

Mervyn

 

sent me the exact same one

[Ozzy Fudd]

well at least you got a reply :good:

[monkeyboots]

sdlp reply

 

Thank you for your email regarding gun regulations. Mr O'Loan has written to the Chief Constable about your concerns. As soon as we receive a response I will contact you again.

 

Regards

 

Frances Redmond

Constituency Caseworker

[dieseldogg]

Strangly when I called in with the DUP office I was told that there was nowt they could do, and that they had tried and failed? before for others.

This after I had detailed the fiasco? regarding my .17HMR applic ie the "fudging/double speak" if not attempted downright dis/misinforming.

I did however speak to a very sensible senior lady, perhaps the possibility that she hails from my adopted locality helped?

Re the PPW's, despite coming from the side of the political fence that would hold most of them & indeed my father even having a pipsqueak of a pistol on PPW grounds at one time.

YES some/ a reasonable proportion of applicants "bigged" it up, ie the threat to qualify. This from my preceptions.

This is not to suggest that there were not very real/substantive threats made either.

Cheers

Ps

Our 16 year old daughter asked this past summer " Daddy, what lot? march on the 12th July again, an why?"

Mods feel free to delete if you think I am getting too "political"

Cheers

M

PPS

I "tink" I met David last week on a course.

I got him slightly wrongly pigeonholed

[davie mac]

Anybody had any word back from there MLAs,iv only heard from the UUP nothing back from the DUP,SDLP or the Shinners.

[ollie]

I have only heard from the DUP and SDLP.