Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) It's not been a while since I've had a moan about work. However a few of us got presented with a letter summarising a meeting earlier that day, as we'd not hit out targets for January. Basically outlining that if it happens again, we will have to undergo training and if that fails, disciplinary action will commence. Anyway, these letters were brought down to us at around 16:45 and I was on the phone, but I had a quick read and thought I'd take it home to properly go over. About 10 minutes later I got an email demanding that the letter be signed and returned by 17:20. Fortunately another employee kicked off about this and said he didn't want to sign it right then. What did he get? The MD called him and shouted at him and demanded he sign the letter in acceptance that he read and understood it. Basically, there must be some legality about being forced to sign something and also that you MUST be allowed some time to go over a document before scribbling on it?! Please, someone help, as I need a decent bit of evidence to go into work with tomorrow!! Edited February 4, 2010 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Sounds like a great company you work for there....have you not got a HR department you can talk to, if not i think you need to speak to citizen advise in the morning to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris64 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 If it's a change in your contract they have to give you 90 day's notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Sorry to hear of your bad day Dont sign anything just yet............. Firstly - I think its time to get your Contract / Terms of Employment out ........read them and understand them. It sounds like they want you to sign that letter so they have some lever in the future, as im guessing at the moment nothing is written like that in your contract / terms of employment. By signing it, you effectivley agree to it and they can then possibly use it further down the line. Are you in a union, or is there a union rep you could talk too? If so I would take the opportunity. At the end of the day they cant sack you for not signing it, if they are proposing a change to your contract / terms then I think they are obliged to give you a min amount of time before the changes come in to effect, not force it down your neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You cannot be forced to sign anything. You also need to speak to Mungler, He's your man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 ...let's say I did sign it, after the MD kicked off at the other lad. Can I retract the piece of paper? (I really really really wish I'd not signed it now!) I'll copy and paste the letter (Very badly written) in here, so someone can actually tell me if I have 90 days. As it's not actually a change to my contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You're well within your rights not to sign until you've satisfied yourself with the content of the letter. If your boss is already mentioning disciplinary action, i would start making notes on anything you think may be used against you in the future. Believe me, it's extremely important just in case the worst happens. Every conversation/meeting/e-mail etc make notes while it's still fresh in your memory. As for signing the agreement/contract make sure you understand it, and it's implications before putting pen to paper, and take advice if you're not sure about anything. Don't be pushed into signing it until you're 100% clear about it's content. Hope all goes well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 From what you have said in the opening post, you probably got a case for being made to sign under pressure / fear for your job.....so not all may be lost, especially if others saw / had similar experience. One you have it all sorted I would start looking elsewhere, not somewhere I would like to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The letter itself isn't actually as bad as you might think it is. It's just the fact that we were basically made to sign it without time to read it and look at our contracts etc. In regards to leaving; Fortunately I have a full plan B in place (All secretive at the moment). So I am just going to hang in there until I know I'll be getting the boot and then I'll hand my notice in. I just need to stay in paid employment to keep me afloat, as my idea basically means I go self employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Blimey, sounds like you work for a right bunch.... Starting point is: 1. start taking notes of everything and keep copies of emails etc. Be careful though, you will probably find that in your contract or your staff handbook (which maybe incorporated into your contract by reference) that sending stuff to a home email is breach of the IT / confidentiality policy. You just can't beat printing off a hard copy and taking it home. 2. if ever "forced" to sign something the starting point is "don't" but if that doesn't work then write somewhere on the paper "I am signing this because I have been told to. I wanted to take it home and read it but he started shouting....". Write it all down calmly, take a copy and hand it in. That will make the cock think twice. All of this is academic. When you reach the end of the road with an employer, it maybe unfair, wrongful or constructive dismissal and a possible Tribunal claim BUT nonetheless it's the end of the road. Get your mindset right. All the extra hours you worked and butt kissing that went on - you won't get back. That's life and why lots of us end up working for ourselves or in a partnership with other like minded people. Don't feel bad. I worked for a bunch of cocks a way back - I went beyond all targets, late nights, weekends, cancelled holidays, on call and laptop on holiday and I earnt them a fortune - this was all on a promise of going up the ladder. Alas, the people at the top had actually pulled the ladder up and made a habit of not keeping their promises. Leaving them was the best days work I ever did - all traumatic at the time etc but as a door closes another opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Fortunately another employee kicked off about this and said he didn't want to sign it right then. What did he get? The MD called him and shouted at him and demanded he sign the letter in acceptance that he read and understood it. You may have hit the nail on the head there. I may be wrong here, but as far as i know a signature is just a way of showing that you have read and understood what has been written. It doesn't mean you agree with what's written. It would be different if, for instance, you were signing a police statement where the wording specifically implies that you are signing that the facts contained are true to the best of your knowledge etc etc. or signing a contract where you would be agreeing to the terms and conditions as set out. I would say that unless your boss has specifically written that you agree to the content of the letter you shouldn't worry too much, as all you've done is signed as a reciept of the letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 WMJ, I am poised with the jiffybag mate. Just give us the nod Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Blimey, sounds like you work for a right bunch.... Thanks Mungler. It's the ******* silliest of things, I'm not joking. The other day, we got an email saying that we should use less milk because the company is spending 1.39 a day on 4 pints. If we continue to use this much, we will be asked to buy our own milk. The company actually bought us a coffee machine (Nespresso, the one that you have to use half a mug of milk) a year ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 So you missed your milk targets for January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 So you missed your milk targets for January Tell your boss that Bagsy has a "Toast Club" where he works - very larr-dee-daarrr !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You don't open the post as part of your job do you? If so then the doggy truffle in a jiffy bag may backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I once signed something from work with SUD in brackets under my signature, made naff all difference 'cept making me feel better about it. We had a global communique before Christmas asking us to read and sign a new Corporate ethics policy - lots of other people made a fuss and the union got involved (big shakes) - because the implication was you'd have an HR follow-up meeting if you did not sign before year end. I read it and signed immediately as it was just the opportunity I was looking for to avoid ever having to ******** another internal or external customer that we have a capability or technology which I know is not the case Only had reason to invoke the clause once so far this year Don't know the specifics of your form but I hope you can draw some positive from it BR Raja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT1 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Look mate you need a job ? Do what they ask. Don't need it? Tell them to stick it. Plan B probably stands for bollo. It's the only life you'll have. This ain't no dress rehearsal. Do it or chew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) Right, just so that I don't make a complete *** out of myself tomorrow. Here's the letter and the follow up email. Serious advice please lads. It's all well and good saying, "just tell him to shove it" but that's really not what's going to happen tomorrow. The whole point is that I don't want to be forced to sign something. Clearly I have blurred names and addresses, but you should be able to get the gist. If anyone spots something that needs deleting, please say so. It's the paragraph in the letter about disciplinary action which constitutes a change to my contract, as it doesn't currently say that I will get in trouble if I fail to meet my target for a single month. Edited February 4, 2010 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 knowing two people who got given the heave ho from that very same company, it really doesn't surprise me. watch your back and make plans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The letter suggests you have written disciplinary procedures within your company handbook for not meeting prescribed targets. Firstly, have your read through the handbook carefully and fully understood it? Good luck whichever route you take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT1 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Serious advice please lads. If you need the job do it. It's the paragraph in the letter about disciplinary action which constitutes a change to my contract, as it doesn't currently say that I will get in trouble if I fail to meet my target for a single month. Did you take the job thinking it didn't matter if you hit your targets or not? If I didn't know you so well I'd suspect that you'd been caught skiving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The letter suggests you have written disciplinary procedures within your company handbook for not meeting prescribed targets. Firstly, have your read through the handbook carefully and fully understood it? Good luck whichever route you take They're basically saying that the disciplinary procedure will be the one that is in the handbook. More than likely, demotion/pay cut/etc. The actual change to my contract is that if I now have 2 months of missing targets, I will be disciplined. That is why I want to withdraw my signed copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Looks like they are looking to get rid of people, to cut costs. Sign it and say nowt! Keep your head down and let the others hang themselves. Lots of firms are making cut backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Did you take the job thinking it didn't matter if you hit your targets or not? If I didn't know you so well I'd suspect that you'd been caught skiving It's a sales job. Of course I know that missed targets aren't acceptable. However the point is that I was forced to sign the piece of paper. That's what I want to challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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