Pigeon, 30yds, feeding on ground...

[UKPoacher]

correct. i have had a think about it and the term 'chest shot' is very vauge. if you did disect a pigeon and find the heart which is the vital organ you could probably take quite succesful shots but you would need to know exactly where it is. your right there is no garunteed kill, but we as airgunners try and make the odds of getting a kill as much as possible for ourselves by making sure we are as accurate as possible.

 

Have you seen the size of a pigeon's heart? It's a fair size in itself, then there's the lungs either side and not forgetting that the lungs can only work in a vacuum. Once you've put a bloomin' great hole in the chest cavity the diaphragm sucks air in through that hole and impairs the lungs capacity. Looking at the size of a pigeon compared to a .177 pellet and it might be equivalent to a golf ball size hole in a man's chest. How long would he last?

[UKPoacher]

Hi mate

 

i've had to write this purely because i can't beleive what i'm reading! that sir fox is a complete idiot,he is obviously a very sad individual who hasnt got a clue about shooting airguns,a typical bloke who wouldnt say boo to a goose but gets brave when hes on the internet 100's of miles away from the people he is abusing, im with you all the way mate!

 

Tom

 

Sadly Tom forums attract people like him. Raw beginners asking for advice one minute, five posts later they are qualified experts He's taken to sending me messages claiming that he has some black on me. If he had he would have posted it by now. Total ######!

[Al Downie]

Raw beginners asking for advice one minute, five posts later they are qualified experts

 

Have seen t'other side of the same coin though - self-appointed forum lords who stamp on ANYONE who doesn't tug a forelock in their presence, and will use all their googling powers to attempt to discredit anyone who dares to ignore or challenge their status. They're just as bad I reckon - attention-seeking ####### who crave an adoring audience. (I hasten to add that I'm referring to another forum altogether - nothing to do with this thread or any contributors!)

[Axe]

I have cleaned this topic up having removed all material that was not relevant to it and put it back, as it contains useful information.

[aaron airgunner]

Have you seen the size of a pigeon's heart? It's a fair size in itself, then there's the lungs either side and not forgetting that the lungs can only work in a vacuum. Once you've put a bloomin' great hole in the chest cavity the diaphragm sucks air in through that hole and impairs the lungs capacity. Looking at the size of a pigeon compared to a .177 pellet and it might be equivalent to a golf ball size hole in a man's chest. How long would he last?

if you put a .177 pellet through a wood pigeons lungs it will not bring it down straight away. they'll fly for some time, just the same way as if you put a bullet through a deers lungs adrenaline will keep it going. this could be a problem if it lands in a place which you can reach or an area off our permission. i was talking about heart shooting in theory anyway. i'll always stick to headshots. all modern air rifles have enough accuracy to take put a pellet through a pigeons head, so why risk a chest shot?

[aaron airgunner]

wheres my link gone?

[Al Downie]

all modern air rifles have enough accuracy to take put a pellet through a pigeons head, so why risk a chest shot?

 

Because in the case of a pigeon which is feeding, the chest is a stationary target, and the head is a fast-moving and unpredictable target.

[aaron airgunner]

then the shot can't be taken and we have to accept that and wait till we can take the shot.

[Axe]

wheres my link gone?

 

 

You mean the one on Post#61?

[UKPoacher]

then the shot can't be taken and we have to accept that and wait till we can take the shot.

 

You might. I'd kill it with a chest or shoulder shot. As already said, the problem with head shots is that the head moves in an unpredicatable way. You might be able to hit a pigeon's head every time at 30yds, but I don't claim to be able to in field conditions and I doubt if many of those who voted for head shots could too.

[bruno22rf]

I dont think i can recall ever reading such a long and relativly pointless thread.Yes yes yes -in an ideal world we would all shoot pigeons stone dead at 30 yards with a perfect head shot but who in their right mind considers this possible? For one thing unless the bird has allready shuffled off its mortal coil then its head is up and down like a whores draws-then throw into the pot the factor that most rifles/shooters are simply not good enough (for a myriad of reasons) to hit the head with any consistency then the head shot simply becomes a pipe dream for any shooter out to clear pigeons for crop protection.If i were to suggest to the majority of crop farmers that i know that i had'nt shot many today because all the birds were moving their heads around too much then i would soon be taking up some other pastime to ease my newfound boredom.If you are a sporting shooter who simply shoots for pleasure then carry on in the quest for a string of endless perfect shots-but if you are out there to kill pigeons then you have no choice but to take any shot that has a good chance of killing the bird.

[tomhw100]

I dont think i can recall ever reading such a long and relativly pointless thread.Yes yes yes -in an ideal world we would all shoot pigeons stone dead at 30 yards with a perfect head shot but who in their right mind considers this possible? For one thing unless the bird has allready shuffled off its mortal coil then its head is up and down like a whores draws-then throw into the pot the factor that most rifles/shooters are simply not good enough (for a myriad of reasons) to hit the head with any consistency then the head shot simply becomes a pipe dream for any shooter out to clear pigeons for crop protection.If i were to suggest to the majority of crop farmers that i know that i had'nt shot many today because all the birds were moving their heads around too much then i would soon be taking up some other pastime to ease my newfound boredom.If you are a sporting shooter who simply shoots for pleasure then carry on in the quest for a string of endless perfect shots-but if you are out there to kill pigeons then you have no choice but to take any shot that has a good chance of killing the bird.

 

I agree with you this time completley!

[aaron airgunner]

I dont think i can recall ever reading such a long and relativly pointless thread.Yes yes yes -in an ideal world we would all shoot pigeons stone dead at 30 yards with a perfect head shot but who in their right mind considers this possible? For one thing unless the bird has allready shuffled off its mortal coil then its head is up and down like a whores draws-then throw into the pot the factor that most rifles/shooters are simply not good enough (for a myriad of reasons) to hit the head with any consistency then the head shot simply becomes a pipe dream for any shooter out to clear pigeons for crop protection.If i were to suggest to the majority of crop farmers that i know that i had'nt shot many today because all the birds were moving their heads around too much then i would soon be taking up some other pastime to ease my newfound boredom.If you are a sporting shooter who simply shoots for pleasure then carry on in the quest for a string of endless perfect shots-but if you are out there to kill pigeons then you have no choice but to take any shot that has a good chance of killing the bird.

but 'good chance' is just not good enough for me. i hate it when a pigeon flies off wounded becuase i am the reason for the suffering of an animal.

and most rifles are good enough. nearly all modern pcp's can hit within a pigeons killzone at 30 yrds. i accept the fact that if it moving this is difficult or impossible even and in my opinion we just have to live with that. i recently shot a pigeon and after rooting around a bit i have accepted the fact that a shoulder shot would kill.

[Dekers]

Anyone who thinks they can consistently shoot a bobbing pigeon in its pea sized brain at 30yds is kidding themselves

 

Or maybe they just want to shoot its beak off and let it starve to death

 

 

What he said!!

[Dekers]

I'm sorry guys and I'm not trying to stir things up but what we find above is a lot of riteous keyboard warriers who haven't got a clue and have obviously never shot a pigeon in ther lives....... and a handful of shooters...

 

ATB!!

Edited February 21, 2010 by Dekers

[bruno22rf]

But "good chance is just not good enough for me"-Oh pleeeeeeeease get real-what is the biggest bag you've ever shot with your puffgun?-did it honestly make any difference to the protection of crops? Ultimatly you are out in the fields to do a job-either get on with it or let someone else do it for you.We all aim to kill as cleanly as we can but kill comes a long way in front of cleanly in the world of crop protection.

[tomhw100]

But "good chance is just not good enough for me"-Oh pleeeeeeeease get real-what is the biggest bag you've ever shot with your puffgun?-did it honestly make any difference to the protection of crops? Ultimatly you are out in the fields to do a job-either get on with it or let someone else do it for you.We all aim to kill as cleanly as we can but kill comes a long way in front of cleanly in the world of crop protection.

 

 

The biggest bag me and my mate shot with our 'puff guns' was 39 and 42 on two seperate saturdays on a field of clover and chickweed and a few decoys! im gonna get the picture up on here soon!

 

Tom

[UKPoacher]

It's all relative. 40 pigeons with an air rifle is an impressive tally, but in some areas a shotgun will take 50 on a quiet day. Where I shoot 20 is a good day with the 12 bore and 10 is an average going on what others have shot, whereas I'll only average between 3 and 6 with an air rifle when decoying, a red letter day is 10 or more.

 

The top and bottom of it is that I personally do not believe that you can shoot wood pigeons through the head and guarantee a clean kill at a true 30yds. I do believe from personal experience that you can kill woodies at that distance with chest shots, and that you have more chance of a clean kill per shot fired by aiming at the chest, not the head.

[reedbradshaw]

to really throw a spanner in the works....what about the .20 calibre...or would that make me a troll ?

[KANO]

We are normally looking to get around 120 pellets in a 30icnh circle, therefore we will get at least 20 pellets on the bird

Don't think I would like to eat any pigeon you shot SirFox.

I use a AAs410 .177 and have enjoyed many a good meal

[Al Downie]

Don't think I would like to eat any pigeon you shot SirFox.

I use a AAs410 .177 and have enjoyed many a good meal

 

Yep. Of all the pheasants I've eaten this season, I don't think I've pulled more than three or four pellets out of any single bird. SirFox is living in the ideal world where every shot fired at a flying bird hits it right in the middle of a perfect pattern - nobody ever misses! Back in the real world however, runners are common and the ability to despatch game promptly is crucial for any picker-up. Head shots on flying birds are not that common, and quite often spectacular! On the last day of our season, one of the guns hit a bird in the head, and instead of folding and dropping like you'd expect, it suddenly went into a vertical climb for about 40ft, then spiralled down to the ground like a plane which had stalled. First time I'd seen it.

[aaron airgunner]

But "good chance is just not good enough for me"-Oh pleeeeeeeease get real-what is the biggest bag you've ever shot with your puffgun?-did it honestly make any difference to the protection of crops? Ultimatly you are out in the fields to do a job-either get on with it or let someone else do it for you.We all aim to kill as cleanly as we can but kill comes a long way in front of cleanly in the world of crop protection.

so you would be happy at the end of the day too wound 10 pigeons which will die a slow death as long as the crops were protected? your morals are mixed up:

clean shot first, crop protection second. and for your information th biggest bag i've shot is 11 pigeons. roost shooting. that may not be big compared to shotgunners bag but i reckon its pretty good.

[Al Downie]

so you would be happy at the end of the day too wound 10 pigeons which will die a slow death as long as the crops were protected?

 

A slow death? Which is slower - a bird incapacitated by a shot in the chest (let's assume the worst and say the heart was not struck), which is caught and despatched in seconds, or a bird hit in the beak or eye by a fluffed head shot, which flies away to die of starvation?

 

Unless you're a VERY, VERY good shot, 100% of the time, I'd say you were actually increasing the chance of a longer, slower death by stubbornly refusing to take anything but a head shot.

[the_commoner]

idealism rocks ...............................

 

everything i have ever shot at in my entire life has dropped stone dead without a flutter, thats because i ALWAYS take the perfect shot with whatever i have with me on the day, be that a shotgun where i ensure that the centre of my pattern hits a pigeon flying at approx 30 yards away (yes i am that good, otherwise i wouldn't pull the trigger) or be it with my puffguns where i have never ever wounded a bird in my life because i ALWAYS take the perfect shot and get it right everytime

 

get my drift

 

what a load of ballcocks

 

i have done enough shooting to know that for a variety of reasons, no matter how great the intent, you cannot ALWAYS ensure a clean kill, accept it or take up something else

[UKPoacher]

Yep. Of all the pheasants I've eaten this season, I don't think I've pulled more than three or four pellets out of any single bird. SirFox is living in the ideal world where every shot fired at a flying bird hits it right in the middle of a perfect pattern - nobody ever misses! Back in the real world however, runners are common and the ability to despatch game promptly is crucial for any picker-up. Head shots on flying birds are not that common, and quite often spectacular! On the last day of our season, one of the guns hit a bird in the head, and instead of folding and dropping like you'd expect, it suddenly went into a vertical climb for about 40ft, then spiralled down to the ground like a plane which had stalled. First time I'd seen it.

 

He's been Googling Wikepedia again and obviously has never seen a pigeon close up, or he'd realise that you will get far more than 6 woodies in a 30" circle. I reckon on pulling three of four pellets out of a carcase.