Step up from a Hatsan?

[pigeon chasser]

Its true you are going to get plenty of advise plus different decisions on what is good and what is not.

all yu can do is keep to your budget and get the best you can for the money, try a few guns and see what feels better for you.

 

I used a beretta semi a while back and it was terriable, sort of put me off semi autos as the cartridge was getting stuck in the chamber and it scared me to be playing around with a live cartridge, but you get wiser (must be an age thing).

 

The escort works for me for pigeon and wildfowling, not everyones cup of tea, but you can only remark on your personnal experiances.....so they are fine in my book so far,

 

Daft thing is that some times i only put 2 shells in the gun anyway

[pigeon chasser]

Its true you are going to get plenty of advise plus different decisions on what is good and what is not.

all yu can do is keep to your budget and get the best you can for the money, try a few guns and see what feels better for you.

 

I used a beretta semi a while back and it was terriable, sort of put me off semi autos as the cartridge was getting stuck in the chamber and it scared me to be playing around with a live cartridge, but you get wiser (must be an age thing).

 

The escort works for me for pigeon and wildfowling, not everyones cup of tea, but you can only remark on your personnal experiances.....so they are fine in my book so far,

 

Daft thing is that some times i only put 2 shells in the gun anyway

Good point. Unless your a real super sharpe shooter with an auto you can waste cartridges where your always firing the last cartridge but the bird is normally out of range and it does take some self decipline to control that itchy trigger finger

[utectok]

I think 3.5" chambered guns are really for steel shot as the big steel loads tend to be longer as it's less dense. Get an OU I reckon less to go wrong?

[stubby]

as much as I love my hatsan, as someone has already said, its rare to get that 3rd shot off, having just bought an o/u for rough shooting, Im torn between grabbing that first for the pigeons too,

[Shuck.]

Sorry if I seem to be picking on you a little Harford but just disagree with what you're saying

 

 

If you have very little experience using a shotgun, you will find a self loader a real hassle. Especially if you're a bit careless where you point a gun. (Not saying you're a danger or anything, but some new shooters are just completely oblivious to where they're pointing a gun, even after being told 100 times)

 

I have had a fair few arguments with people who can't hold a semi auto correctly, after I've had one pointed at me.

 

A nice o/u will do you good.

Disagree completely (respectfully), a good way to describe the Semi vs O/U,SxS is the same as a manual vs automatic transmission, if you learn automatic and pass your test with an automatic (O/U,SxS), you will always have more difficulty to learn a manual (Semi) after that

It's like saying that an automatic transmission car is better (for novices) then a manual transmission.

 

If you start off with a semi auto then you will learn more about gun safety (as there are more things to be learned about semi safety).

 

as much as I love my hatsan, as someone has already said, its rare to get that 3rd shot off

I too fancied a S/A for pigeons and I was also looking at a FAC S/A. I wish I'd not bought the S/A, as the only reason I'd use the 3rd shot, is if I missed the first two

 

You will rarely need all three shots when pigeon shooting, unless you're very hot on your decoying skills.

To be honest, for me it's better to have and use occasionally then need and not have.

 

Just have fun with your o/u and if you end up with continual hot barrels and missed birds because you were reloading, then get the S/A

From what I read he doesn't have an O/U and some people just don't like O/U's (not saying I don't) ..and some people just prefer single barrels as opposed to two.

I think it's better if he gets the whole package then go and buy another gun, he's already said he doesn't want to spend too much so isn't he much better off getting one gun that does everything

[Shuck.]

....CONTINUED

I mean, if you want a gun that has loads of problems. Get a Hatsan. I am with Dekers on this one. Beretta all the way.

I have had as much problems with my Escort jamming as any other 301 I've seen shot and jam, (yes Beretta semis do jam they are not the holy grail of shotguns ) and as for any other problems.. well I've never had any other problems!

When I say the gun's jammed it's because I've done something stupid and not loaded it properly (doesn't happen now I'm used to it )

 

The recoil is better handled and feels reliably excellent. You can actually feel the mechanism working when you fire each shot, unlike the Hatsan. Which just goes *clunk*!

The clunk is the feeling of the mechanism of the Escort You're only saying that the cycling mechanism on the Escort feels different to the Beretta.. not that it's better. It's an opinion just as I prefer the mechanical *bang clunk* of my Escort to the Beretta!

I don't expect the gun to rub my nuts every time I fire it I just expect it to go bang and kick out the empty

I don't want it to look pretty (so I have to carry it in a nice warm padded case) which is why it doesn't have any wood on it and why it's matte black receiver is scratched so bad it looks like something from Robocop

 

Its true you are going to get plenty of advise plus different decisions on what is good and what is not.

all yu can do is keep to your budget and get the best you can for the money, try a few guns and see what feels better for you.

 

I used a beretta semi a while back and it was terriable, sort of put me off semi autos as the cartridge was getting stuck in the chamber and it scared me to be playing around with a live cartridge, but you get wiser (must be an age thing).

 

The escort works for me for pigeon and wildfowling, not everyones cup of tea, but you can only remark on your personnal experiances.....so they are fine in my book so far,

 

Exactly, you can only comment with your own opinion so what you have here is a thread of people expressing just that.. their opinions

Escorts don't jam more then Berettas as many people on this site will tell you. Its bull poop.

The truth is ANY gun will treat you right if you treat it right, clean and look after your guns properly and they will look after you.

Looking after guns isn't buying an expensive carry case or polishing its pretty wood, it's getting to know your gun and being able to strip it down to the last bolt and knowing how everything in it works, and then cleaning it.

 

Saying that a semi auto isn't worth owning because of all the cleaning is absolute rubbish.

I love taking apart guns and cleaning them I'd like to get a job doing it some day

 

..and that's thanks to learning as a novice, with a semi auto.

[pigglet]

I too fancied a S/A for pigeons and I was also looking at a FAC S/A. I wish I'd not bought the S/A, as the only reason I'd use the 3rd shot, is if I missed the first two

 

You will rarely need all three shots when pigeon shooting, unless you're very hot on your decoying skills.

 

Just have fun with your o/u and if you end up with continual hot barrels and missed birds because you were reloading, then get the S/A

 

 

As someone new to semi auto's I don't use the three shots. I Put three shells in it initially then after firing either one or two its simply a case of pushin 1 or 2 more shells into the magazine without having to work the slide or press anything. Basically it means I can sit in the hide and re-load in a couple of seconds with the barrel pointing skyward. Much quicker and safer than with a break barrel.

 

I wish I'd bought one sooner

Edited April 10, 2010 by pigglet

[goldeneye243]

I have got an option to buy a beretta A391 for £525

 

The stock is not in great condition but other than that it looks ok. Does it sound like a good deal?

[Dekers]

....CONTINUED

 

I have had as much problems with my Escort jamming as any other 301 I've seen shot and jam, (yes Beretta semis do jam they are not the holy grail of shotguns ) and as for any other problems.. well I've never had any other problems!

When I say the gun's jammed it's because I've done something stupid and not loaded it properly (doesn't happen now I'm used to it )

 

 

The clunk is the feeling of the mechanism of the Escort You're only saying that the cycling mechanism on the Escort feels different to the Beretta.. not that it's better. It's an opinion just as I prefer the mechanical *bang clunk* of my Escort to the Beretta!

I don't expect the gun to rub my nuts every time I fire it I just expect it to go bang and kick out the empty

I don't want it to look pretty (so I have to carry it in a nice warm padded case) which is why it doesn't have any wood on it and why it's matte black receiver is scratched so bad it looks like something from Robocop

 

 

 

Exactly, you can only comment with your own opinion so what you have here is a thread of people expressing just that.. their opinions

Escorts don't jam more then Berettas as many people on this site will tell you. Its bull poop.The truth is ANY gun will treat you right if you treat it right, clean and look after your guns properly and they will look after you.

Looking after guns isn't buying an expensive carry case or polishing its pretty wood, it's getting to know your gun and being able to strip it down to the last bolt and knowing how everything in it works, and then cleaning it.

 

Saying that a semi auto isn't worth owning because of all the cleaning is absolute rubbish.

I love taking apart guns and cleaning them I'd like to get a job doing it some day

 

..and that's thanks to learning as a novice, with a semi auto.

 

 

I suggest you need to calm down a bit and stop telling the world everyone else is wrong, I have had Berettas for years, a 303 and a 391, (as well as several O/U) and a couple of years back I bought my lad a Hatsan Escort,...NO OPINION HERE JUST FACT...it jammed all the time on many cartridges and was very fussy, much fussier than any of the Berettas I own, then the barrel Blew Up on the Escort, not opinion FACT!

 

ATB!!

[Dekers]

I have got an option to buy a beretta A391 for £525

 

The stock is not in great condition but other than that it looks ok. Does it sound like a good deal?

 

I'm not sure what the market price is for them, but when they were first launched I seem to remember the list price on the cheapest was £900+++, (I'm sure someone will straighten me out if my memory is failing me) perhaps a look on Guntrader.co.uk will give you some idea of current prices!

[Shuck.]

I suggest you need to calm down a bit and stop telling the world everyone else is wrong, I have had Berettas for years, a 303 and a 391, (as well as several O/U) and a couple of years back I bought my lad a Hatsan Escort,...NO OPINION HERE JUST FACT...it jammed all the time on many cartridges and was very fussy, much fussier than any of the Berettas I own, then the barrel Blew Up on the Escort, not opinion FACT!

 

ATB!!

 

you can keep your suggestions about my composure to yourself as I was very calm indeed while writing that, and nowhere have I said 'everyone else is wrong'.

I have put just my own opinions on the subject and haven't told anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

so you have owned an escort and it didn't work, so you got a lemon and you think they're all like that? you're telling me not to get an Escort because you have had the misfortune to buy one that jammed and then blew up?

 

mine hasn't blown up yet and it does a fine job cycling any carts I put through it.

 

the only time I've heard of escort barrels blowing up is either the chokes have been overtightened or they weren't assembled correctly after stripping - both a case of not reading instructions and not caring for the gun.

[Dekers]

you can keep your suggestions about my composure to yourself as I was very calm indeed while writing that, and nowhere have I said 'everyone else is wrong'.I have put just my own opinions on the subject and haven't told anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

so you have owned an escort and it didn't work, so you got a lemon and you think they're all like that? you're telling me not to get an Escort because you have had the misfortune to buy one that jammed and then blew up?

 

mine hasn't blown up yet and it does a fine job cycling any carts I put through it.

 

the only time I've heard of escort barrels blowing up is either the chokes have been overtightened or they weren't assembled correctly after stripping - both a case of not reading instructions and not caring for the gun.

 

Escorts don't jam more then Berettas as many people on this site will tell you. Its bull poop.

You didn't say that then....

 

....and you do hear a lot about Hatsan Barrels blowing up do you, and you have detailed insight into failure reports B)

 

.....and you make assumptions about people not reading instructions or caring for their guns, strange its only Hatsans that have these problems, don't hear many Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli etc etc owners having problems after not reading instructions, over tightening chokes, assembling them incorrectly or blowing up barrels...

 

I speak as I find, if you have any doubts about the appalling failure rate of Hatsans just look back at all the Hatsan threads and compare that with ANY other shotgun!

 

Yep, I got a lemon, one of many from Hatsan, so you got one thats working at the moment hey!!

 

ATB!!

Edited April 10, 2010 by Dekers

[motty]

I own a 3 1/2" chambered beretta xtrema and that cycles clay loads without problems. It is a very versatile gun and i'm glad i bought it. I've used it for pigeon shooting, shooting duck and geese and for shooting close range foxes when out lamping ( with 63 gm loads). I often get off 3 shots when shooting pigeon, duck or geese, so it is worth having a semi.

If i could keep only one gun, it would probably be the xtrema due to it's versatility.

[pigeon chasser]

LOL this is a very funny read...

Like i said earier mosts auto need striping down and cleaning far to much compared to a o/u all because the use dirty gas to cycle the cartridge.

shuck was banging on about his escort and how he likes the feel of it wearing out every time he pulls the trigger because it goes kunck clip. thats like saying i'll have the skoda with worn out wishbones beceuse i like the bangs it make driving over pot holes.

He aslo said he likes stripping it down and cleaning it all the time. WHY WHY WHY would you. Buy a decent semi auto not a cheap escort. You can pick them up for peanuts second hand which says some thing and ridcoulsy cheap brand new (for a brand new gun that is)

In my opinion of using one and was looking at buying autos for a first gun price reflects the guns quality.

The really best semi's are benelli (not saying this because i have one) But they are. Half the weight of an extrema2 less agro than beretta and a lot less maintaince than any other auto (bretta second best though)

[Billy.]

....CONTINUED

 

I have had as much problems with my Escort jamming as any other 301 I've seen shot and jam, (yes Beretta semis do jam they are not the holy grail of shotguns ) and as for any other problems.. well I've never had any other problems!

When I say the gun's jammed it's because I've done something stupid and not loaded it properly (doesn't happen now I'm used to it B) )

 

 

The clunk is the feeling of the mechanism of the Escort You're only saying that the cycling mechanism on the Escort feels different to the Beretta.. not that it's better. It's an opinion just as I prefer the mechanical *bang clunk* of my Escort to the Beretta!

I don't expect the gun to rub my nuts every time I fire it I just expect it to go bang and kick out the empty

I don't want it to look pretty (so I have to carry it in a nice warm padded case) which is why it doesn't have any wood on it and why it's matte black receiver is scratched so bad it looks like something from Robocop :yp:

 

 

It's not the 'jamming' as such. It's the *click* and no shot. Where the hammer somehow gets so full of gunk that it refuses to hit the primer with the required power... Guns do jam, but not many fail to hit the primer because the hammer has somehow picked up a few flakes of burnt powder...

 

The *clunk* from a Hatsan is like the difference between two takeaway places; Mc Donalds and The Chef Peking (My local and best Chinese):

 

The takeaway from Mc Donalds is handed to you in a brown paper bag, by a spotty teenager who doesn't even have the decency to say thank you. You barge past a load of people you were just talking to in the dole queue and then push the heavy metal door to get out.

 

The takeaway from the Chef Peking is handed to you in a nice plastic bag (or cardboard box, if it's quite big) and the manager says, "Here, have some prawn crackers; they're on the house." And as you walk out, the door is opened for you, by a nice Asian lady, who says "thank you".

 

Overall, the 'takeway' definition is the same, but the way it's handled is different. EXACTLY the same as the Escort and the Beretta;

 

They both do the same thing, but it's handled differently: You feel the Beretta doing its job properly and efficiently, whereas the Hatsan just cycles the shot as quickly as possible without any care.

 

 

...Can you tell I've had a few

[Billy.]

Wow, I actually don't remember writing that. However I seem to come up with some good analogies when I'm drunk

[berettaman]

At the end of the day you have to agree to disagree,theres pros and theres cons ,everyone is entitled to choose what he/she spends their money on,i agree and disagree with alot said on this thread ,i own three types of gun and feel they all have their place in the shooting calender and will say that whatever gun i choose to use they all get a thourough cleaning before returning to the cabinet/safe,as with everything in life some things are good some are bad and theres always a badly produced item that fails,you pays your money you takes yer chance ,no guarantees of 100% reliability if it can go wrong it will go wrong its a fact of life itself,keep your opinions its what you base your future experiences on and i hope they serve you all well

[Shuck.]

Escorts don't jam more then Berettas as many people on this site will tell you. Its bull poop.

You didn't say that then....

Yes I did, where in that sentence is an opinion? Treat them properly and you don't have problems.

 

....and you do hear a lot about Hatsan Barrels blowing up do you, and you have detailed insight into failure reports

I said the only times I've heard about a barrel blowing up is either an overtightened choke or an under tightened forend, being as you semi-avoided my comment, I'd guess that you did exactly that, is reading instructions that difficult for you?

 

.....and you make assumptions about people not reading instructions or caring for their guns, strange its only Hatsans that have these problems, don't hear many Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli etc etc owners having problems after not reading instructions, over tightening chokes, assembling them incorrectly or blowing up barrels...

It's actually not that strange dekers, if you buy a cheaper car then you know you aren't getting a top of the range BMW with rear passenger airbags and automatic stability control. So a cheaper car may not be as safe.

If you have so much trouble reading instructions maybe it's worth just buying a 'Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli' instead so save you the hassle.

 

I speak as I find, if you have any doubts about the appalling failure rate of Hatsans just look back at all the Hatsan threads and compare that with ANY other shotgun!

I can go to google and type 'Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli problems' and come up with just that, does it prove anything? Not really.

 

Yep, I got a lemon, one of many from Hatsan, so you got one thats working at the moment hey!!

Being as I look after my guns then I won't have a problem with my Hatsan.

[Shuck.]

how he likes the feel of it wearing out every time he pulls the trigger because it goes kunck clip. thats like saying i'll have the skoda with worn out wishbones beceuse i like the bangs it make driving over pot holes.

 

Don't think I said that at all, so you're saying because the Beretta makes a different sound to the Escort that it means the Escorts breaking?

 

on your bike

[Dekers]

Dear Shuck, if you ever come up with some facts rather than self opinionated assumptions someone may take some notice of you, your ramblings are going nowhere, and frankly I don't care, if you like your Hatsan then I am happy for you, I am also bored with you, Goodbye!

 

QUOTE (Dekers @ Apr 10 2010, 10:58 PM)

Escorts don't jam more then Berettas as many people on this site will tell you. Its bull poop.

You didn't say that then....

Yes I did, where in that sentence is an opinion? Treat them properly and you don't have problems.

That will be you telling the world they are wrong and Berettas jam just as much as Hatsans, You may have noticed Hatsans come with various spares to cover failures as well!!

 

....and you do hear a lot about Hatsan Barrels blowing up do you, and you have detailed insight into failure reports

I said the only times I've heard about a barrel blowing up is either an overtightened choke or an under tightened forend, being as you semi-avoided my comment, I'd guess that you did exactly that, is reading instructions that difficult for you?

So where did you see the failure reports then, rambling assumptions again

 

.....and you make assumptions about people not reading instructions or caring for their guns, strange its only Hatsans that have these problems, don't hear many Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli etc etc owners having problems after not reading instructions, over tightening chokes, assembling them incorrectly or blowing up barrels...

It's actually not that strange dekers, if you buy a cheaper car then you know you aren't getting a top of the range BMW with rear passenger airbags and automatic stability control. So a cheaper car may not be as safe.

Well apparently Hatsans are equal in many respects to Beretta according to you

 

If you have so much trouble reading instructions maybe it's worth just buying a 'Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli' instead so save you the hassle. Your assumptions and arrogance are beyond belief

 

I speak as I find, if you have any doubts about the appalling failure rate of Hatsans just look back at all the Hatsan threads and compare that with ANY other shotgun!

I can go to google and type 'Beretta, Browning, Winchester, Benelli problems' and come up with just that, does it prove anything? Not really.

It proves Hatsans failure rate is appalling compared to any other shotgun, obviously because the owners never read the instructions according to you

 

Yep, I got a lemon, one of many from Hatsan, so you got one thats working at the moment hey!!

Being as I look after my guns then I won't have a problem with my Hatsan. You have no idea whatsoever how I look after guns, so don't go looking for grief!

 

 

 

You are short on facts and long on assumption.

 

Your Blood pressure must be going off the scale, you have a vivid imagination and are now contradicting yourself, ill informed fictional writing, and kindly stop making pathetic assumptions to justify your inane ramblings!

 

Do you by any Chance work for Edgar Bros, they are about to get hit by a serious law suit regarding Hatsans, that will be interesting, no doubt the claimant simply didn't read the instructions though, so that will be ok then!!

 

My Hatsan has gone, after the first barrel blew up having fired about 35 cartridges, the replacement barrel didn't fit properly, and then the next whole replacement gun was faulty too. Returned and received a FULL refund, so that makes 3 I had which were a heap of dogs doings. Not assumptions, nothing to do with reading instructions, agreed and verified by Me, the RFD, Birmingham Proof House and Edgar Bros...3 Faulty on the bounce...FACT.

 

You are welcome to your assumptions and opinions, those are facts!

 

Enjoy your Hatsan!

Edited April 11, 2010 by Dekers

[Shuck.]

Dear Shuck, if you ever come up with some facts rather than self opinionated assumptions someone may take some notice of you, your ramblings are going nowhere, and frankly I don't care, if you like your Hatsan then I am happy for you, I am also bored with you, Goodbye!

 

Oh dear

 

Enjoy your Hatsan!

will do!!

[Billy.]

Handbags (or Berettas and Hatsans in this case) away ladies

[goldeneye243]

I only really wanted some more info on the relative merits of the other models, rather than a discussion of the Hatsan.

 

Still, it is an entertaining thread....

[Nial]

What about a Remington 11-00 /11-87 ?

 

Reliable guns at a mid price point between Hatsan and Beretta.

 

 

Nial

[Shuck.]

What about a Remington 11-00 /11-87 ?

 

Reliable guns at a mid price point between Hatsan and Beretta.

 

 

Nial

 

I've heard good things about the 1100, don't the US police use em, or used to?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Shuck.