Criminal Justice Act 1988

[gixer1]

Be very careful Gixer, a pair of snips or scisors would do for the ties and unless you are on your way to or from a stalk, you could end up in serious trouble. I think in reality it would be unlikely you would get stopped and searched in the first place but shooters (as has been seen by a few on here) are targets by plod and can be singled out for special attention!

 

My advice is to treat a knife lige a gun. You wouldn't dream of leaving your gun or rifle in the car just in case you might need it and so, look at a knife in the same way, put it in your car with the gun when you go shooting and take it out with the gun when you get back. My knives are kept locked away with my guns and are treated in pretty much the same way as them.

 

 

They could be pedantic but if it did go to court I would think that all the shooting clothing, the roof spotlight and my hobbies would probably lead to it being thrown out....

 

I think common sense has to come into play in britain - even though it doesn't seem that common!

[markbivvy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...se-picnics.html

[Justintime]

They could be pedantic but if it did go to court I would think that all the shooting clothing, the roof spotlight and my hobbies would probably lead to it being thrown out....

 

I think common sense has to come into play in britain NOT the Britsh police mate , common sence dont work with them the law is the law .

just to add salt to it your guns would be taken as well and *** revoke

[J@mes]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...;referrer=yahoo

[Gully]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...;referrer=yahoo

 

Why did he plead guilty to having an offensive weapon? I really don't get some people.

 

I think 'assisted opening' knives are under the police's radar at the moment. I have one but only use it at home. I wouldn't like to be the first that the police pick up for having one because they certainly break the spirit if not exactly the letter of the law.

[Billy.]

Why did he plead guilty to having an offensive weapon? I really don't get some people.

 

I think 'assisted opening' knives are under the police's radar at the moment. I have one but only use it at home. I wouldn't like to be the first that the police pick up for having one because they certainly break the spirit if not exactly the letter of the law.

 

I know what you mean... The law says it's fine for an A/O knife, but if you have a policeman who's set on thinking it's a flick knife it'll be hard to convince him otherwise.

[game_boy]

Just to quote the law to start things off here:

 

"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

 

I keep all my pigeon shooting equipment in the back of my car (bar my shotgun, but the shotgun carts live in the car too). It's a great place to leave it all, as it saves one hell of a load of effort to unload it all and drag a mess through the house.

 

My issue is that I also own an assisted opening Kershaw knife (longer than 3 inches) and a 15" machete, which I also keep in the car. The knife sits in the cubby hole next to the steering wheel and the machete stays behind my seat.

 

What gets me is that I don't ever go out thinking. "Ah, I may need a knife/machete today, so I'll put them in the car." so I avoid being without a knife when I need one, by just keeping it in the car... It seems to make sense, however cars are treated as a public place and therefore I can be arrested for having these on me, without having a good reason for doing so. At first I thought it'd be pretty obvious to any policeman that a load of pigeon shooting equipment and a utility version of the Defender 90 might give away that I'm not just some idiot driving around with offensive weapons with an intent to use them. However I have been reading about numerous people getting arrested who use knives for their trade.

 

Please can someone help me on this, as I want to keep a knife (at least) in my car, as they're extremely handy when you need them and a nightmare if you don't have one! (Possibly a lifesaver too!)

 

Do you keep a knife in the car and have you ever been stopped?

 

 

I think you need to be mindful of one thing here. The definition of a 'public place'. There are many definitions for this in many different peices of legislation. For the equivilent legislation in Scotland a public place is = any place at the material time the public have access, whether on payment or otherwise. I would argue that this wouldn't be your locked motor... However leaving a knife on display in your car parked on a high street or carpark is not I would say a bright idea as is having a machete behind your seat. Any police officer seeing that would be asking serious questions of you. Best keep them out of sight and stick to driving away from the masses.

[Billy.]

I think you need to be mindful of one thing here. The definition of a 'public place'. There are many definitions for this in many different peices of legislation. For the equivilent legislation in Scotland a public place is = any place at the material time the public have access, whether on payment or otherwise. I would argue that this wouldn't be your locked motor... However leaving a knife on display in your car parked on a high street or carpark is not I would say a bright idea as is having a machete behind your seat. Any police officer seeing that would be asking serious questions of you. Best keep them out of sight and stick to driving away from the masses.

 

Unfortunately your car is deemed a public place. I have checked the law on this.

 

What gets me is that I can legally take the shotgun in the car and not go shooting. I don't need to give a good reason for having it, as I have a licence and I could be taking it anywhere and I do not need to be on the way to a shooting ground or hunting. I could tell the police that i was taking the shotgun for a ride in the car and there's very little then can do. However if they look in the glovebox and find a knife, I can be arrested

 

I seriously think we should start a campaign to get knives added to our licences. However, like I said before, this isn't a "every SGC or FAC holder gets to carry a knife" it's more like the expanding ammo clause; so long as you can give a good reason for needing to carry a knife in your car, then it will be granted.

Edited April 19, 2010 by harfordwmj

[Imperfection]

I always keep a Stanley knife in the boot of my car in a plastic tub which also has stuff like jump leads,water etc.I suppose the rozzers could say its an offensive weapon,but surely my telescopic wheel wrench which looks like a riot batton could cause greater injury?

[Vipa]

What gets me is that I can legally take the shotgun in the car and not go shooting. I don't need to give a good reason for having it, as I have a licence and I could be taking it anywhere and I do not need to be on the way to a shooting ground or hunting. I could tell the police that i was taking the shotgun for a ride in the car and there's very little then can do.

 

I wouldn't like to test that! If you cannot prove good reason for having a firearm in the vehicle with you there is really only one other reason you would have it (in the eyes of plod) and that would be with intent!

[Vipa]

I always keep a Stanley knife in the boot of my car in a plastic tub which also has stuff like jump leads,water etc.I suppose the rozzers could say its an offensive weapon,but surely my telescopic wheel wrench which looks like a riot batton could cause greater injury?

 

Your telescopic wheel wrench is not a knife, and I don't know, a slash from a stanley knife would do some pretty serious (if not terminal) damage!

[MC]

So would a clout around the head with a wheel brace.

[Kent Militia]

I seriously think we should start a campaign to get knives added to our licences. However, like I said before, this isn't a "every SGC or FAC holder gets to carry a knife" it's more like the expanding ammo clause; so long as you can give a good reason for needing to carry a knife in your car, then it will be granted.

 

 

I seriously think we should repeal this stupid law that you can't have a knife with you in your car or on your person. As long as you're not doing anything illegal with it it shouldn't matter what you have with you, as it has been pointed befpre you can take your shotgun in the car with you for no apparent reason so why be so anally retentive over a knife which would be less dangerous than a shotgun?

 

Reminds me of the new cigarette law. I can walk into a gun shop, ask to see a gun, handle it, check the action trigger and features, but god forbid kids see a cigarette packet in a store display. ########.

[Vipa]

I seriously think we should repeal this stupid law that you can't have a knife with you in your car or on your person. As long as you're not doing anything illegal with it it shouldn't matter what you have with you, as it has been pointed befpre you can take your shotgun in the car with you for no apparent reason so why be so anally retentive over a knife which would be less dangerous than a shotgun?

 

Reminds me of the new cigarette law. I can walk into a gun shop, ask to see a gun, handle it, check the action trigger and features, but god forbid kids see a cigarette packet in a store display. ########.

 

I'm inclined to agree but how do you police it. We need to come down very heavy on the ***** who think that carrying a blade is cool and who have no intention other than to use it in a fight or intimidate with it, at the same time we need to ensure that it isn't a problem for someone with a legitimate need for a knofe to carry it.

 

The ideal would be to say that just because you're a sportsman and do sportman stuff where you need a knife that you are OK to be carrying one even if you are not at that point indulging in said stuff, however, not all knife crime is commited by black, burberry wearing adolescents living on inner city housing estates. How do you know that the guy with all the fishing gear in the back of the car, that he hasn't used for a month, along with the knives isn't just as happy to use the knife on some old dear as the fish he supposedly catches. The only way to do it is to outlaw the carrying of knives without PROVEABLE good reason. The only PROVEABLE good reason is to be going/returning from fishing/other legitimate activity or the shop from where the knife was bought. It is made very clear that carrying a knife 'just in case' is absolutely no defence.

 

The whole thing is very difficult and I sympathise with the Police as they can't be expected to be able to judge and catagorise people just on age/looks/occupation etc.... Yes it's a pain in the bum for us but, the way it's working at the moment is the only way it can work... NO GREY AREAS, YOU ARE EITHER BREAKING THE LAW OR YOU AREN'T AND THE LAW IS VERY, VERY CLEAR IN THIS INSTANCE!

 

I still think you would have a very hard time convincing plod or a judge that it was ok to have a firearm in your vehicle when you weren't actually on your way to or from a shoot / stalk / gunsmiths etc.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Vipa

[paul65]

I've always got a penknife in my pocket. A Swiss Army Knife, or more often than not, a Spyderco UK Penknife.

 

Much as I like the cleverness of assisted opening knives, I believe sooner or later a copper is going to pull someone in with one and a judge will rule it's a flick knife, in much the same way that a lock knife is now classed as a fixed blade. I wouldn't want to be the one who was sent down to set a precedent.

 

Regarding the Daily Mail story about the old fella nicked for having a SAK in his glove compartment, I think a lot is missing from that story. He was apparently done for carrying an offensive weapon, not carrying a bladed article. Possession of an offensive weapon requires proof of intent, so the fact that he pleaded guilty suggests to me that he said something stupid to the officer about his reason for having it, aside from what the Mail says.

[cocker3]

Just to quote the law to start things off here:

 

I keep all my pigeon shooting equipment in the back of my car (bar my shotgun, but the shotgun carts live in the car too). It's a great place to leave it all,

not use maybe someone more legaly minded can comfirm but is it not agains the law to keep ammo in your car to with out just cause

i think id be more concered with this .a friend hand a box of shell take out his car in his drive way by some teenagers and they got caught

they told the rozzers where they got them and he has been told by the rozzers he could be in deep **** .they told him they could take it as he is unfit to hold a sgc so think twice about leaving them in the car m8

but i also carry 2 knifes in the landy nothing worse than going stalking and your knife is on the kitchen table

[ME]

and a 15" machete

 

 

Over-compensating there WMJ !

[Dirty Harry]

Hi Chaps,

 

speaking as a Policeman I can say that I think most of you would be safe carrying your knives with you when out shooting or going to or from shooting.

At any other time you take the chance of being stopped and caught with one and you know what the law says.

It is all about the situation and curcumstances and that is why the law is there. It's up to you to convince the officer that your actions are lawful.

I have arrested quite a few fishermen, hunters, carpet fitters, builders and electricians carrying knives with them even though they have a lawful excuse.

Unfortunatly it did not cover them doing into a nightclub at 1am or when they get stopped for driving like an idiot with a load of mates in the car.

If you have to keep things in the car keep them in the boot where they are out of sight and secure. You know where they are if you need them and you won't have to talk yourself out of a sticky situation when a machete is found under the seat.

 

As for the cartridges left in the car... while this may not be illegal you do have a responsibility to make sure they are kept in a safe place. In the house is a lot safer than in a car particulary if the car is used by more than one person.

 

Harry

[Newsportshooter]

I'm sure this will cause debate but still - if you travel to London with a knife and/or a machete in the boot (and your not ON YOUR WAY TO OR FROM A LEGITIMATE ACTIVITY) you will almost certainly get nicked - I would go so far as to suggest that you would get nicked either way if you have the knife anywhere near your driver seat - I think you would have difficulty persuading police of your innocent intent (especially with knife crime being on the political agenda.)

 

If you need to carry a knife for jobs on the farm etc then take a folding pocket knife with a non-locking blade of less than 7.62 cm (yes the same numbers as the calibre but cm not mm) and you will be OK (as long as you have that reason for carrying) for example if you then decide to leave it in your pocket, after leaving the farm and go to the local night club then you potentially breaking the law (in the eyes of the law that is - it would depend on your intentions and the police's interpretation of your intentions..)

 

As for the quote:

 

‘It really annoys me that I'd be legally fine to hold the knife in one circumstance, but not in another.’

 

I’m sure the law also really annoys the yobs who like to carry knives for the alternative reasons too…

 

Re the carts (and indeed your equipment) - I think common sense should prevail there (the law may allow this but it also allows you to leave the keys in it and you probably wouldnt do that so often), leaving valuable or interesting stuff in your vehicle is just asking for some urchin to have a look (and hey ho then some clown has some shotgun cartridges to play around with ….. in that old antique 12 g he nicked yesterday from the cocky down the lane)

Edited April 19, 2010 by Newsportshooter

[Kent Militia]

I have arrested quite a few fishermen, hunters, carpet fitters, builders and electricians carrying knives with them even though they have a lawful excuse.

 

You sir are a tyran and I have no respect for you.

[Kent Militia]

"I'm inclined to agree but how do you police it. We need to come down very heavy on the ***** who think that carrying a blade is cool and who have no intention other than to use it in a fight or intimidate with it, at the same time we need to ensure that it isn't a problem for someone with a legitimate need for a knofe to carry it."

 

So it is all about using that illegal knife in a crime which is not allowed anyway so the law is already there to deal with such a situation.

 

"The ideal would be to say that just because you're a sportsman and do sportman stuff where you need a knife that you are OK to be carrying one even if you are not at that point indulging in said stuff, however, not all knife crime is commited by black, burberry wearing adolescents living on inner city housing estates. How do you know that the guy with all the fishing gear in the back of the car, that he hasn't used for a month, along with the knives isn't just as happy to use the knife on some old dear as the fish he supposedly catches. The only way to do it is to outlaw the carrying of knives without PROVEABLE good reason. The only PROVEABLE good reason is to be going/returning from fishing/other legitimate activity or the shop from where the knife was bought. It is made very clear that carrying a knife 'just in case' is absolutely no defence."

 

 

So let me understand your point: Some idiot uses a knife in a bad malefic way: Solution - banning of all knifes by all peopel carried even though evidence suggests they don't have a criminal record and are not likely to carry them for an ilegal reason. Good one. You would love LABOUR or is it LIEBOUR?

Ban Ban ban everything.

 

 

"The whole thing is very difficult and I sympathise with the Police as they can't be expected to be able to judge and catagorise people just on age/looks/occupation etc.... Yes it's a pain in the bum for us but, the way it's working at the moment is the only way it can work... NO GREY AREAS, YOU ARE EITHER BREAKING THE LAW OR YOU AREN'T AND THE LAW IS VERY, VERY CLEAR IN THIS INSTANCE!"

 

OK guys another lesson, terrorists come in nice clean defined stereotypes. If a guy has a big beard and speaks a foreign language, ***************call National guard to send the guy to an airport that is going to send him to Guantanamo Bay. America, *****!!

[Newsportshooter]

I think you should read the post again and note the context of why the fishermen, carpenters etc were arrested..... and maybe the 'they had a lawful excuse' should have been in inverted commas AS IN thats what they professed to the police at the time..... not reality.

 

 

 

 

• 
  

You sir are a tyran and I have no respect for you.

[Kent Militia]

I have had a re-read of the thread and while I do agree that the guys had items in the car while doing irresponsible things while in posession of them none of them sound like Al-quaeda terrorists so maybe a caution or a fine in order going through the common law courts. Stupid behaviour should not be tolerated but it is veryu differnt than an extremist wiring his car up to blow an airport for example

[Kit Monster]

How on earth have you related this topic to terrorism??!! If you're not a terrorist, you shouldn't get nicked, is what your post reads like!!!

 

And I'm sorry but calling Dirty Harry a tyrant is a disgrace. So, after reading a few words in his post, you've decided he's an oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person, just because he's done his job and nicked a few idiots ....which is what the public are always screaming at the police to do in the first place!!

He's given practical advice, as have many others, to be sensible and keep it in the boot.

Seems like a reasonable chap to me!

 

There are many laws that people (including me) wish didn't apply to them. Unfortunately it's part of living in a society, that we have to conform to a set of rules, albeit sometimes badly written ones.

 

 

Yes, I am a copper too...and I'm not counting on your respect either.

[J@mes]

I have had a re-read of the thread and while I do agree that the guys had items in the car while doing irresponsible things while in posession of them none of them sound like Al-quaeda terrorists so maybe a caution or a fine in order going through the common law courts. Stupid behaviour should not be tolerated but it is veryu differnt than an extremist wiring his car up to blow an airport for example

 

 

 

Just because you are a sparky/ plumber/ carpet fitter or hunter doesn't mean you aren't the type to develop road rage and stab someone in the heat of the moment or be tempted to take that knife in to the pub because your ex-missus' new boyfriend is in there....or any of the other hundred situations where a person may want to have a knife to hand.

 

"Its more convenient than taking it out" is not going to be considered "good reason" in the eyes of the law. If it's a routine stop for documents or something like that and they find a knife in the back then you may talk your way out of it, but if you get pulled for speeding/ jumping an amber/ tyre screeching or anything like that then you are already on the wrong foot with the law and are more likely to land yourself in trouble for having a knife with you, whether you *think* you have a legitimate reason or not.