Should the UK leave the EU?

[covlocks]

16 Food, Farming & the Countryside

• Support the new supermarket Ombudsman to ensure farmers receive a fair price from supermarket chains

never going to happen - its a case of huge buying power dictates the price - if the price paid by the Supermarkets increases then the end user price increases - pushing up the RPI, inflation, and more prices

• Introduce labelling schemes to support British farmers and high animal welfare standards

Label can be printed anywhere - take free range eggs - the box may say it but the contents dont always live up to the name

• Support GM foods research but continue to oppose GM food production and listen to evolving scientific

research

meaningless statement isn't it

• Guarantee farmers no sudden loss of CAP payments on leaving the EU

So who's going to pay then - oh! that will be the UK tax payer then

• Allow county referenda to reverse the hunting ban at local level

will never happen - name a similar law that has ever be reversed

• Legalise more producer co-operatives to put food producers on a more equal footing with supermarket

Buyers

you still cant force the supermarkets to buy - they will use the people who offer the goods at the lowest price

 

I think reality has to break out soon - the divide between election promises and action is huge - and that is common with all parties - or perhaps you know of a party who has gained power in history that has kept all their election promises - it is a well guarded secret if you have...

Edited April 21, 2010 by covlocks

[Boromir]

I think reality has to break out soon - the divide between election promises and action is huge - and that is common with all parties - or perhaps you know of a party who has gained power in history that has kept all their election promises - it is a well guarded secret if you have...

 

And out of who's pocket is paying £45million+ a day to Europe?

 

Trade with Europe yes. There Ironic Laws and rule no.

Edited April 21, 2010 by BFG

[alexr]

Has any one apart from Samuel L Jackson and Robert Carlyle considered that seeding ourself in to the good old USA might be a consideration, after all we seem to go to war when ever they do It might also make a huge difference to the gun laws.

[Ozzy Fudd]

Has any one apart from Samuel L Jackson and Robert Carlyle considered that seeding ourself in to the good old USA might be a consideration, after all we seem to go to war when ever they do It might also make a huge difference to the gun laws.

 

you seem to be missing the point, that would mean we'd be surrounded with americans

 

why do we have to join anywhere? why cant we stand on our own?!

[Doc Holliday]

I think reality has to break out soon - the divide between election promises and action is huge - and that is common with all parties - or perhaps you know of a party who has gained power in history that has kept all their election promises - it is a well guarded secret if you have...

 

As I said, what a negative individual you are. So what would your answer be then, roll over and take in the backside from Van Rompuy and his cronies?

 

16 Food, Farming & the Countryside

• Support the new supermarket Ombudsman to ensure farmers receive a fair price from supermarket chains

never going to happen - its a case of huge buying power dictates the price - if the price paid by the Supermarkets increases then the end user price increases - pushing up the RPI, inflation, and more prices.

The Supermarket ombudsman is a government run watch dog that will monitor the supermarket to protect food producers and consumers alike. This will mean that they will not be able to screw the producers down on price while trying to charge over the odds to the consumer. Thinking about it laterally it will be similar to the OFWAT or OFTEL organisations. Currently there is nothing to regulate the supermarkets and this will not come a moment too soon. Prices will rise regardless and to be honest it will be the likes of fuel rather than food that will push up inflation, as it has done this month already, and in turn push up the RPI.

• Introduce labelling schemes to support British farmers and high animal welfare standards

Label can be printed anywhere - take free range eggs - the box may say it but the contents dont always live up to the name.

I’m really not sure where you’re getting your information but taking your example of eggs, in order for the producer to proclaim the eggs are free range, they do have to be free range. This means the chickens have to have husbandry to certain level. The labelling issue in question is promote BRITISH produce and the type of conditions it has been produced in. Producers cannot say their products are something they’re not.

• Support GM foods research but continue to oppose GM food production and listen to evolving scientific research

meaningless statement isn't it.

Ok, I’ll explain this one to you so it makes sense. They will support research into the production of GM food production but at the same time they will not allow GM foods to be produced until scientific research can demonstrate that GM foods have no more adverse effect on people than non-GM foods, or not as whichever case may prevail.

• Guarantee farmers no sudden loss of CAP payments on leaving the EU

So who's going to pay then - oh! that will be the UK tax payer then

Initially this will come from the saving we will make when we leave the EU. There will also be incentives & programmes introduced for farmers to capitalise on their production so subsidies will be a minimal cost to the British people, if at all.

• Allow county referenda to reverse the hunting ban at local level

will never happen - name a similar law that has ever be reversed

A similar law has never been reversed because there are no other laws like hunting with dogs except for hunting with dogs. The Party I am supporting will return power to where it should be, as close to the British electorate as reasonably practicable. This will mean local councils will have the power to decide, by local referendum, what matters most to people within a given borough or district. If a topic is put up for referendum that you feel strongly about then you go out and make your mark against/for it.

• Legalise more producer co-operatives to put food producers on a more equal footing with supermarket

Buyers

you still cant force the supermarkets to buy - they will use the people who offer the goods at the lowest price

This is not about forcing supermarkets to buy. It’s about giving the little guy a fighting chance against the bully boy supermarkets by allowing them to set up in direct competition with them by banding together, thus giving the consumer a choice.

 

Anyway, I did want this to be just a poll on leaving the EU to get an idea as to the numbers on here that feel one way or the other so should you want to answer my post then either start another topic or add to one of the existing ones with regard to politics and/or the EU.

 

Apologies, I negleted to answer your end comment (which I started with). I agree with you (never thought those words would leave my lips), politicians are notorious for not doing what they say, especially in this day and age. In fact it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that whoever gets in will not fulfill any of their election manifestos. If we remain in the EU then I will bet my bile duct (or any other part of my anatomy you care me to wager) that any future gereal elections will just be an empty gesture as we will have no say over our own affairs.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[Kent Militia]

Britain should pull out of Europe and start up a free trade agreement with them, the peopel who say that we will be better off are just scared that so many are ****** off at the power that the european union is taking for itself that dissolution of the Europen union is a possibility.

 

Italians, Spanish and Greeks (the population) have never wanted to be part of the EU and treat its laws with contempt. Like the EU no smoking law, in Greece they laugh their butt off at that one, especially when you go into one of their crowded nighttime terraces or kafenions.

[alexr]

you seem to be missing the point, that would mean we'd be surrounded with americans

 

why do we have to join anywhere? why cant we stand on our own?!

There are about 60,000,000 of us we have 300,000,000 Americans on one side and nearly 600,000,000 Europeans on the other. Globalisation means that the big markets attract the money and resources. At least the Americans have a tradition of state autonomy on certain issues and they speak English. Its a sad thought but perhaps true that the UK may no longer be able to maintain its' G 8 or perhaps even its' G 20 status as a totally unaligned nation in a world made up of huge trading blocks and smaller self sufficient states. We can no longer rely on New Zealand lamb and the likes. Since the 1970's and joining the European union. New Zealand has had to find other markets for their products, as has the rest of the old empire, and God alone knows we are not self sufficient as a nation. The only alternative to being part of a big trading group for Britain is to slowly watch our economy stagnate as we become increasingly dependant on trade with affiliations that have no interest in anything other than our money. A current example of this would be the behaviour of the Russian gas companies towards the Ukraine over the last two winters.

So you have a choice of three options, but the idea of returning to the state of play pre 1970’s is a non starter for all the reasons out lined above.

So are we going to be part of the inevitable European super state or join as the 51st state of the union ?

I would have to say that given the pride in his state expressed by Lee, the idea of being a proud Britain and swearing allegiance to the stars and stripes is a better option than speaking french.

Edited April 21, 2010 by alexr

[Kent Militia]

NO allegiance to America or to Europe, come on think a bit more positive! We fought a war against the Americans 200 years ago and we lost we are not welcome in America, not to mention we didn't exactly have the best relations with Europe either. Screw them both I say!

[Nial]

As well as maintaining trade links with the EU we could join the North American Free Trade Association (NAFTA),

this currently includes Canada, America and Mexico. (Someone in Mexico seems to be switched on).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America...Trade_Agreement

 

 

?

 

Nial.

[MPT1]

I say no, because if we did leave the eu us farmers would miss out on our single single farm payment and most small farmers would proberly go bust

 

 

I don't wish to be unkind, but if a business can't survive without subsidies why should I or for that matter Fritz, Pierre, Carlos or Luigi pay to support it?

[Blackpowder]

I believe it is true that whoever the accountants are for the EU, for several years they have not signed the accounts as a true record. So we must assume that the Brussels hierchy is even more crooked than our home grown example at Westminster, we continue to pay through the nose for an organisation that is more and more unaccountable. Furthermore Britain continues to be ,"good europeans" , while other member states, France in particular, seem to put their own national interests before that of the common good.

 

Blackpowder

 

PS also living in a fishing community it would be nice to see Britain once more in control of our own waters and see a controlled revival of this once dynamic industry.

[Ozzy Fudd]

So are we going to be part of the inevitable European super state or join as the 51st state of the union ?

I would have to say that given the pride in his state expressed by Lee, the idea of being a proud Britain and swearing allegiance to the stars and stripes is a better option than speaking french.

 

neither of those are options thanks. my allegiance is sworn to the union flag, and anyone who tries to tell me differently will find out what happens when you try to enforce foreign allegiance on an ulsterman.

 

im all for free trade, but the way i see it just because i shop at sainsbury's doesnt mean they should be allowed to dictate to me how i live my life. the eu was set up as a trade agreement with countries and has morphed into an unlelected dictatorship. the only difference between it and most other dictatorships that have been seen around the world is that the eu hide their proclaimations behind health and safety, human rights, anti terror bills and other mumbo jumbo.

[alexr]

NO allegiance to America or to Europe, come on think a bit more positive! We fought a war against the Americans 200 years ago and we lost we are not welcome in America, not to mention we didn't exactly have the best relations with Europe either. Screw them both I say!

 

Thinking positively will not heat your house or feed your kids.......and we have spent the last 100 years fighting along side the Americans. They may be shocked at our dislike for aspects of their culture but I no longer think they actively hate us any more. Perhaps not some thing that can be said of the French, Greeks, Spanish and anywhere else where our gilded youth go to play these days.

 

As well as maintaining trade links with the EU we could join the North American Free Trade Association (NAFTA),

this currently includes Canada, America and Mexico. (Someone in Mexico seems to be switched on).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America...Trade_Agreement

 

 

?

 

Nial.

 

In the short term these affiliated groups are useful to maintaining free trade, but do you really think that the WASPS of New England will ever regard a Mexican as anything more than the gardener. The truth of the mater is that in the long term all these trade associations will drift towards greater political and social union, or they will drift apart. The EU, being older than most, has simply progressed further down this line. NAFTA has proceeded down this line by the back door, after all the US Dollar is already the universal currency to a far greater extent globally than the Euro is with in the EU. My point is that at the end of the day the long term future of this island is reliant on being part of a larger more powerful; trading block, and that it is in the nature of these blocks to develop imperial aspirations. Our own empire was a case in point. Up until the Indian mutiny the continent was a trade confederation presided over by the East India Company. Out of that trade association came the Jewel of the Crown.....

[alexr]

neither of those are options thanks. my allegiance is sworn to the union flag, and anyone who tries to tell me differently will find out what happens when you try to enforce foreign allegiance on an ulsterman.

 

There is only one thing to say to that ...... The Good Friday Agreement.

[Nial]

In the short term these affiliated groups are useful to maintaining free trade, but do you really think that the WASPS of New England will ever regard a Mexican as anything more than the gardener.

 

They don't have to, this is a free trade agreement between countries.

 

The truth of the mater is that in the long term all these trade associations will drift towards greater political and social union, or they will drift apart.

 

Why should a free trade agreement lead towards political and social union??

 

Evidence/references?

 

 

My point is that at the end of the day the long term future of this island is reliant on being part of a larger more powerful; trading block, and that it is in the nature of these blocks to develop imperial aspirations.

 

As I've posted before Mexico and Norway have both negotiated the same free trade that we enjoy

with the EU without the EU meddling in their internal affairs.

 

Only 10% of our economy is involved with european trade, why should everything else we do be

dominated by that?

 

 

BTW, I'm not rabidly anti EU, I'm just posting what I understand to be the case.

 

Nial

[Ozzy Fudd]

There is only one thing to say to that ...... The Good Friday Agreement.

 

was too young to vote then, but the union flag is still the flag of my country, no gardai strolling the streets, and we still use sterling, so... your point?? whatever the problems here, and whatever term we use for ourselves (be it irish/british/northern irish) one thing is for certain, were not american and neither are we "european", were are a couple of islands beside europe with our own history's and customs, morals, and laws.

 

and going by your thinking that a small country cant stand on its own, what about japan, has it been swallowed into being ruled by china?

Edited April 22, 2010 by Ozzy Fudd

[Vipa]

Let's face it the USof A is the ******* child of Britain....

 

We have immesurably more in common with the US than Europe... we share the same language, the same culture, the same way of living. Most, if not all of europe is completely alien to the british, in practically every way. The only thing we (almost) have in common is our geographical location, but should that alone make us European...

 

This country is on the verge of bankruptcy, we are no longer (no matter how proud to be british you are) able to stand alone, be it in trade, defence, you name it terms. The sad fact of the matter is that we need to be part of something much bigger. Europe is wrong, we and they are poles apart. The US is (ok they are a bit eccentric and like waving guns around!) right!!! I for one would vote in favour of becoming part of the USA with all the benefits that that affords and all the negatives (let's face it, there actually aren't that many!)

 

I was thinking that this couldn't work due to geographical constraints but at the end of the day we are the almost the same distance from Washington as are parts of Alaska!!! Anchorage - Washington 3,358 miles vs London to Washington 3,676 miles!! the only difference is that we can't drive it (easily, although it could be done)

 

If we were to become part of the USA we wouldn't have to lose our identities. OK we'd adopt the dollar..... better than the Euro IMHO. If you look at Californians, they are proud of their state and fly their flag but swear allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, couldn't we do that? be Brithish but swear allegiance to the S&S??

 

I really don't want to be part of Europe, I don't want to be European, I want to be part of a greater entity that speaks MY language, leads the same kind of life as ME and has the similar goals and aspirations as ME and MY family... Europe does not fit that bill in any way shape or form!!!!

[Vipa]

and going by your thinking that a small country cant stand on its own, what about japan, has it been swallowed into being ruled by china?

 

Japan has a manufacturing base and is a huge industrial producer and exporter. We have sadly let our maunufacturing base run down into nothing and now rely on China and the far east for almost everything. As a nation we could not be self sufficient, Japan could. you cannot compare the two.

[alexr]

and going by your thinking that a small country cant stand on its own, what about japan, has it been swallowed into being ruled by china?

 

Japan has a long history of self sufficiency dating back many hundreds if not thousands of years. There is also a deep rooted belief that Japanese products, whether that is the home grown rice or the state of the art computer is superior in every way to its' imported counterpart. The rapid modernization they underwent in the later half of the 19th century was perhaps more of a response to the threat of colonialism as it was an innate desire to integrate into the modern world. The expansion seen in the 30's that eventually resulted in the catastrophic war with the US was mainly to do with oil and in a post carbon economy they still have the ability and what is more the desire to return to the self sufficiency that the experienced in the past. To your average Japanese the world beyond Japan remains a scary and weird place that offers little of use at a cost that they may not be willing to pay. They are terrified about the prospect of a Chinese invasion and as a result keep one of the largest standing armies and navies in the world out with the super powers. though they describe it as a home defense force. They are also amongst the best equipped and the most highly trained. Like invading Switzerland, you would have to be nuts to invade Japan. As for the strength of national identity and pride, they would make you Ulstermen look like a nationless rabble.

[Nial]

If we were to become part of the USA we wouldn't have to lose our identities. OK we'd adopt the dollar..... better than the Euro IMHO. If you look at Californians, they are proud of their state and fly their flag but swear allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, couldn't we do that? be Brithish but swear allegiance to the S&S??

 

 

Why would being subsumed into one large political entity which dictates policies (not to our

oparticular benefit) be any better than being subsumed into another large political entity which

does the same?

 

The Americans are our friends and allies but there's no way I'm swearing allegance to the S&S unless

I decide to live in America and become a naturalised American citizen.

 

 

We could have free trade agreements with both the NAFTA and the EU as Mexico currently do (is

anyone sick of me mentioning Mexico yet?).

 

With our links and ties with north America and our physical position on the edge of Europe this

would seem to give us the best of both worlds.

 

 

Nial

[Kent Militia]

I don't think the USA would want us to be part of them though.

[alexr]

I am sorry but as I hinted at before no one takes Mexico seriously, and if you feel that it bears comparison to the UK, I for one disagree.

[alexr]

I don't think the USA would want us to be part of them though.

 

they are happy enough to use our troops.

[Vipa]

Why would being subsumed into one large political entity which dictates policies (not to our

oparticular benefit) be any better than being subsumed into another large political entity which

does the same?

 

Because the Americans speak English (like us), have the same aspirations as us, have the same way of living and expectations like us etc... etc... the list is almost endless... let us not forget that we gave birth to the USA, they come from us, we are effectively their parents!

 

We have a completely different culture to France, Germany, Italy, in fact most, if not all of Europe. We speak a different language to most if not all of Europe although on my travels it is amazing how close most european languages are to each other apart fro Germany (who incidentally are probably the closest to us in all aspects other than language!) We have a completely different way of living than most of Europe as well as a different set of values...

 

The point is we are nothing like them, have nothing in common with them and do not fit in well with them..... On the other hand, the USA is pretty much family!!! The difference between moving in with your brother or sister or strange uncle Enrique who you can't communicate with other than through an interpreter, who eats food you find ghastly (in the main) and who wants a kip every day between 12 & 4!!!!

[Nial]

The difference between moving in with your brother or sister or strange uncle Enrique who you can't communicate with other than through an interpreter, who eats food you find ghastly (in the main) and who wants a kip every day between 12 & 4!!!!

 

 

The thing is I quite like living in my own house and want to stay there, with an agreement

that I can go round and trade with any of my friends when I want.

 

Burgers get a bit boring, after a while I might want some pasta washed down with

a decent weissbier!

 

 

Nial.