Clearance to shoot a .243 on deer & fox

[2-dead-in-the-air]

I have had a shotgun certificate for 32 years and a FAC for 1 year, the following is on my certificate :

 

' Until such time as the holder of this certificate passes a recongnised Deer Managment Course, he shall only use the .243 RIFLE on deer & fox, when accompanied by a experienced stalker'

 

I have been out with a tutor ( 30 years experiance ) shooting the .243 on deer.

 

I also have a .222 for fox control.

 

The DSC1 course is expensive and a weekend course with a recognised deer management is £300.00.

 

Ive been told the DSC1 course is all paperwork and can not be compared to going out with a experienced stalker, is there any way around this.

[magman]

Get the tutor to write you a letter stating that he feels your competent in the field

[CZ550Kevlar]

As above but if appears that the police are going to take some convincing good luck you can but try.

[Guest topshot_2k]

DSC is NOT a legal requirement for shooting deer or fox. Just get a letter stating your experience and safety in the field.

[CharlieT]

Have a chat with your shooting organisation, BASC or the NGO whichever one you belong to.

 

We all know that this is not a requirement of the firearms act but your forces licensing manager must have a bee in his bonnet regarding DSC.

 

If you don't belong to an organisation I would be tempted to discuss the matter with your licensing manager, not your feo, and try to find a compromise. Perhaps the submission of a portfolio detailing years stalking, number of deer taken, calibers used, letters from those whom accompanied you and perhaps photographs. Your compromise may be to accept the mentoring condition if they drop the DSC condition.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Charlie

[Dekers]

I have had a shotgun certificate for 32 years and a FAC for 1 year, the following is on my certificate :

 

' Until such time as the holder of this certificate passes a recongnised Deer Managment Course, he shall only use the .243 RIFLE on deer & fox, when accompanied by a experienced stalker'

 

I have been out with a tutor ( 30 years experiance ) shooting the .243 on deer.

 

I also have a .222 for fox control.

 

The DSC1 course is expensive and a weekend course with a recognised deer management is £300.00.

 

Ive been told the DSC1 course is all paperwork and can not be compared to going out with a experienced stalker, is there any way around this.

 

******g Wiltshire again, they really need a BIG Kick in the ****, I am involved with a very serious complaint against their Firearms Dept at the moment, I am hoping to deliver the kick personally!!

[2-dead-in-the-air]

Thanks guys, ive already sent a email to my FEO asking for the lifting of restriction to shoot the .243 im a bit wary in mentioning that its not a legal requirement to have to take the dsc1 as I dont want to pi_ _ him off as im hoping to ask for a open ticket.

It will be interesting on what his reply is.

Its a bit mad that I can shoot the .222 but not a .243

[Frenchieboy]

It does appear that many Firearms Offices are taking this stance now by trying to impost "conditions" (Some of which are quite questionable legally and in the case of the DSC1 very expencive) to stop or discourage people getting a .243 for deer shooting. Is there any written "guideline" which shows exactly what is required to justify a .243 on your FAC and if so where can people find this information please?

[Harnser]

It is totally and utterly wrong for your FEO to insist on theses conditions for your grant . It should be grant or refuse . You need to take this up with your solicitor or your shooting association .

Perhaps people on here will be able to see were I am coming from when I have said in the past that there is a conspiracy to illegally limit the number of centre fire rifles in law abiding citizens hands . If it were me I would be straight down to see my brief .

 

Harnser .

[trxnav]

It is totally and utterly wrong for your FEO to insist on theses conditions for your grant . It should be grant or refuse . You need to take this up with your solicitor or your shooting association .

Perhaps people on here will be able to see were I am coming from when I have said in the past that there is a conspiracy to illegally limit the number of centre fire rifles in law abiding citizens hands . If it were me I would be straight down to see my brief .

 

Harnser .

 

totally agree mate had .243 granted straight away on open cert with deer, fox and zeroing no questions asked once again it sounds like they are forgetting its not a legal fix to have the dsc1 to shoot deer. I had never been on a stalk or shot a deer before hand i was complete novice granted before i went on my own i did go with a certified stalker for my benefit but it is NOT LAW.

 

good luck buddy

[David BASC]

The best practice and guidance from the Home Office and ACPO say that a condition such as DSC 1 for example should only be applied IF the alternative was to refuse.

 

This condition may be relevent to somone with no experience at all and or no opportunity to get help and guidance from another stalker, but surely not in your case, this is simply daft.

 

The police FLO's know full well its NOT a legal basis, but they also know you can appeal a refusal to grant but its all but impossible to appeal a condition - provided it is 'reasonable' (what ever that means!).

 

Agree with the points, write to ask to have the condition removed, with a letter from the experienced guy stating you are safe, can identify deer, know seasons...and as has been said lodge the issue with your shooting org.

 

By the way you do not have to take the DSC 1 course, you can just take the assessment for a fraction of the cost.

 

David

[hendersons]

I was told by wilts that If I put in for a variation on my fac to include a bigger calibre and deer, that I would have to have a dsc1 or he would not reccomend that I be allowed the calibre. This came after me saying that I have been mentored by a chap for the last 2 years who has dsc1 and 2 and 20 years stalking experience, have shot three different species of deer, shot over twenty deer, I have to work weekends which is when all the assesments and courses for the dsc in my area are and I have 3000 acres of land to use the rifle on which has a real problem with deer. how can somebody who has never shot a deer and dealt with it, but has read a book and filled in a multi choice questioner and took a few shots at paper (sorry if i'm wrong on what the dsc involves feel I must have simplified it a bit) be in a better position than myself to be able to go out

 

So I have applied anyway with a letter from the chap who mentored me saying I have been out with him for the last 2 years, can shoot safely, gralloch,recognise disease in a carcass, and can butcher all the way down to individual portions. and that he would not hesitate saying that i could and should go out by myself.

 

before I applied I phoned the basc to see if they think I would be suitable to apply to which I got the answer yes and to give them a call if it is not granted.

 

So i'm now ready for a fight. will let you all know how I get on

nick

[Guest topshot_2k]

I was told by wilts that If I put in for a variation on my fac to include a bigger calibre and deer, that I would have to have a dsc1 or he would not reccomend that I be allowed the calibre. This came after me saying that I have been mentored by a chap for the last 2 years who has dsc1 and 2 and 20 years stalking experience, have shot three different species of deer, shot over twenty deer, I have to work weekends which is when all the assesments and courses for the dsc in my area are and I have 3000 acres of land to use the rifle on which has a real problem with deer. how can somebody who has never shot a deer and dealt with it, but has read a book and filled in a multi choice questioner and took a few shots at paper (sorry if i'm wrong on what the dsc involves feel I must have simplified it a bit) be in a better position than myself to be able to go out

 

So I have applied anyway with a letter from the chap who mentored me saying I have been out with him for the last 2 years, can shoot safely, gralloch,recognise disease in a carcass, and can butcher all the way down to individual portions. and that he would not hesitate saying that i could and should go out by myself.

 

before I applied I phoned the basc to see if they think I would be suitable to apply to which I got the answer yes and to give them a call if it is not granted.

 

So i'm now ready for a fight. will let you all know how I get on

nick

 

good luck, sick of hearing people getting pushed about on variations etc. im in the process of swapping .223 for .243 for fox/deer so hope i dont have any issues. had my .223 for 5 years

[2-dead-in-the-air]

Thanks guys for your support on this matter, Ive had a reply from my FAO that I am in need of sending a letter or letters from experienced, qualified stalkers who have accompanied or tutored a shooter, to the Licensing Manager. He can not guarantee anything but if well supported he will certainly back it up.

 

I will let you know what happens.

[David BASC]

That sounds very encouraging indeed!

 

Nice one and good luck

 

David

[hendersons]

sounds like you are making some progress good luck with it and please let me know how you get on

thanks nick

[2-dead-in-the-air]

Thanks guys for your support on this matter, Ive had a reply from my FAO that I am in need of sending a letter or letters from experienced, qualified stalkers who have accompanied or tutored a shooter, to the Licensing Manager. He can not guarantee anything but if well supported he will certainly back it up.

 

I will let you know what happens.

Had a reply from FLO ie;

 

They are allowing my .222 to be used for shooting Muntjac and Chinese water deer.

Open certificate will not be considered until 3 years have elapsed.

Unaccompanied condition will require a letter from mentor as testimony as to my competence in relation to deer stalking.

[wymberley]

Hi,

Guys, I know what you meant but could I just raise a point about what Frenchieboy and Harnser have said in case any new shooter gets the wrong end of the stick. Have a look at your FAC and the authorising signature. It is that of the Chief Constable (CC) and cannot be delegated. Consequently, any FEO is doing nothing more than carrying out the Force policy. Therefore, in the event of any illegal procedures adopted, the buck stops with the CC.

Dekers, good luck.

Cheers

[rocksaplenty]

I had no probs. with Wiltshire when applying for a .270 (4 years ago). A letter from a stalking friend and a few "testing" questions were good enough for them.