Popes visit

[alexr]

I am not sure that you can separate the core values of British society from the core values of Christianity that easily. To say modern British secular society is some how without Christian values seems to undervalue that society. I suspect, as has been said already, that we now choose which aspect of these values we wish to apply and ignore the religious origins.

[alexr]

 

Praise the Lord and pass the marmalade

looks more like Frank Zappa to me

[Diceman]

I am not sure that you can separate the core values of British society from the core values of Christianity that easily. To say modern British secular society is some how without Christian values seems to undervalue that society. I suspect, as has been said already, that we now choose which aspect of these values we wish to apply and ignore the religious origins.

 

Well, I guess we can argue all night as to whether all "Christian values" do indeed have religious origins. That would seem to imply that prior to Christianity, there was no morality, which is a little bit of a stretch for me. There are plenty of animal communities that display altruistic behaviour with no recourse to religion. I would agree that the religions have adopted the moral high ground and been instrumental in 'spreading the word' but it is the underlying threats of punishment for non-compliance that makes me wonder what their true motivation is. It seems to me that organised religion = control of the masses. That, and the fact that those at the 'top' of every religion seem to be living a pretty magnificent lifestyle at the expense of their followers. But that is another argument entirely. Maybe tomorrow

 

D

[DaveK]

I noted mention of someone being a practicing christian earlier. I've often wondered if any of these people ever practice enough to get good at it.

 

Anyhoo.. This may amuses some.

 

http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/jj150/D...ent=unnamed.mp4

[alexr]

Well, I guess we can argue all night as to whether all "Christian values" do indeed have religious origins. That would seem to imply that prior to Christianity, there was no morality, which is a little bit of a stretch for me. There are plenty of animal communities that display altruistic behaviour with no recourse to religion. I would agree that the religions have adopted the moral high ground and been instrumental in 'spreading the word' but it is the underlying threats of punishment for non-compliance that makes me wonder what their true motivation is. It seems to me that organised religion = control of the masses. That, and the fact that those at the 'top' of every religion seem to be living a pretty magnificent lifestyle at the expense of their followers. But that is another argument entirely. Maybe tomorrow

 

D

That is a fair point and the later half of it is compelling. I don’t think any one can argue that the ostentatious wealth displayed by the upper ranks of any organised religion is justified. I also agree that the historical excesses of the church can only be described as shameful. However looking at the other Abrahamic religions, Christianity in its current form is perhaps the best of a bad lot.

[MM]

Why are people moaning about how their taxes are used? We live in this country, and we vote for the people who run it (dont start about how you didnt vote LibDem ). There are some great failings in the world, and people loose hope very easily. Im more than happy to have the Pope over here if it gives people some inner peace. In modern times, there a few things left for us to believe in. Most religions have been corroded to the point where they are nearly extinct, yet we still promote this. Even if YOU dont believe in what is up stairs, why knock the ones who do. So a tiny percent of your taxes have been used to pay the bill for this (less than 1p per person), are you really going to loose sleep over it? If the people who went out today to watch the Pope pass by have had a nice day, good for them.

[Chard]

looks more like Frank Zappa to me

 

You heathen

 

I know it's J.C. because he changed my breakfast coffee into John Smith's

 

It's a miracle

[MM]

You heathen

 

I know it's J.C. because he changed my breakfast coffee into John Smith's

 

It's a miracle

 

 

Id say thats a nightmare Rich :oops:

[MC]

You heathen

 

I know it's J.C. because he changed my breakfast coffee into John Smith's

 

It's a miracle

 

 

Not really though Chard,

 

A miracle would have been if he turned it into something you could drink.

 

A decent pint of Adnams would have been a start, even Greene King IPA at a push but John Smiths? God really doesn't like you

[Chard]

Not really though Chard,

 

A miracle would have been if he turned it into something you could drink.

 

A decent pint of Adnams would have been a start, even Greene King IPA at a push but John Smiths? God really doesn't like you

 

Tell me something I don't know

[alexr]

I noted mention of someone being a practicing christian earlier. I've often wondered if any of these people ever practice enough to get good at it.

 

Anyhoo.. This may amuses some.

 

http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/jj150/D...ent=unnamed.mp4

:oops: :lol:

[groach1234]

Anyone else see the similarities? I have no time for the pope what so ever but as has been said he was invited here and so he should be paid for no matter how much I hate it.

 

 

George

Edited September 17, 2010 by groach1234

[AVB]

Did the Queen invite him here in her role as Head of State for the UK or as Head of the Church of England. If the former then I suppose we should pay however if the later then surely the Church of England or the Catholic Church should pay. I always believed that she had two separate roles.

[al4x]

its a bit like Inviting Gary Glitter and paying for huge amounts of security, makes no sense to the masses

[BigMungo]

My personal opinion, as a serving member of the Armed Forces, and with the Strategic Defence Review coming up, and loads of cuts planned...how the hell can the government justify paying millions of pounds to host the pope? You can buy a fair bit of kit to protect the lads out in the desert with that money...its disgusting

 

However, on a lighter note....

Do you know why the pope didn't kiss the tarmac at Glasgow Airport?

It was layed 12 years ago and he doesn't kiss anything older than 8!!!

G

[al4x]

What I want to know is which one of the essex boys is it in the middle holding the red sign

 

[steveyb]

Why are people moaning about how their taxes are used? We live in this country, and we vote for the people who run it (dont start about how you didnt vote LibDem ). There are some great failings in the world, and people loose hope very easily. Im more than happy to have the Pope over here if it gives people some inner peace. In modern times, there a few things left for us to believe in. Most religions have been corroded to the point where they are nearly extinct, yet we still promote this. Even if YOU dont believe in what is up stairs, why knock the ones who do. So a tiny percent of your taxes have been used to pay the bill for this (less than 1p per person), are you really going to loose sleep over it? If the people who went out today to watch the Pope pass by have had a nice day, good for them.

 

As an ex police officer and a father of children I object to my taxes being used to fund a visit by someone who , in my view, should have been locked up for conspiracy as soon as he landed on these shores, for covering up for priests in the past !!!!

[vole]

Following your logic, then, as a person who does not posess a single religious bone, you yourself do not give a **** about anyone else?

I don't believe that is the case.

Despite their claims to the contrary, no religion has a monopoly on morality. In fact, most have some decidedly sickening moral values at their very core. Fortunately, most people who follow western religions are selective in their beliefs of the ancient scriptures and have developed a sanitised version of the original, which is what I think you are referring to. But who is the better person? The one (like you, I suspect) who follows an honest and decent path through life, treating others as he would wish to be treated and generally enjoying a harmonious life with no need for organised religion or the promise of a reward in heaven, or the one who does the same but only in the selfish desire to save their soul from the eternal damnation, hellfire and brimstone they have been threatened with if they don't follow the rules?

 

Personally, I don't care which you are as both contribute equally to a happy society. But I cannot accept the argument that as an atheist I am somehow a lesser person.

 

 

Love & peace

 

D

Really good point well made .I see my lack of faith as a personal failing which is difficult to explain and every working day I make sure patients have access to their ministers of whatever faith more so than my religious colleagues. I do think shared beliefs or doctrines with a good morale code do add to a societies cohesiveness . There are some really weird ideas and damaging ones which people would do well to ignore.

[Diceman]

Really good point well made .I see my lack of faith as a personal failing which is difficult to explain and every working day I make sure patients have access to their ministers of whatever faith more so than my religious colleagues. I do think shared beliefs or doctrines with a good morale code do add to a societies cohesiveness . There are some really weird ideas and damaging ones which people would do well to ignore.

 

I really wouldn't worry about your lack of faith. You seem like a perfectly decent person to me. If I were god and you turned up at my pearly gates I would let you in. Even if I was in a really bad mood I would probably let you off with a few weeks of light purgatory.

 

There is a philosophical concept known as Pascal's Wager which basically says that you may as well live your life as a believer, as if there is no god you haven't lost much, but if there is and you have lived as an atheist then you are in for a pretty crappy eternity. But if there is a god and he is the thoughtful being that sanitised religions would have us believe, then I reckon he would see right through that and just look after the nice people rather than those that chose to worship 'just in case' So just be nice and it will all be OK!

 

The more I think about this, the more I think I am turning into a hippy. A hippy with guns, though. I wonder how that will work.

Peace, brothers and sisters

 

:unsure:

[Diceman]

Christianity in its current form is perhaps the best of a bad lot.

 

Can't argue with that.

Well, I can, but the Becks has mellowed me for tonight :unsure:

[Floating Chamber]

Holy White Vanman! (Nice frock!) Will the mods allow more than the five pages alloted to the Mosque visit?

[artschool]