TJ91 Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 (edited) on my new permission there is a few roe kicking about, they seem to be liking the young tree plantation (only a small patch and trees only just popping out of the top of the small gaurds..3ft high tops) the farmer has asked if i could sort some out, but i dont have FAC i have been thinking about getting a .243 for a while as i wouldnt mind doing abit of stalking every now and again the problem is the land is very flat, no big banks to act as back stops so not really any safe shots ther is a couple of big trees over looking the plantation, 1 either side about 80-100yards from the middle of the plantation i figure if i had a high seat up against either tree it would make for a safe shot, but i arent an expert the farmer said he has never given permission for anyone to shoot with rifle so the land has never been checked and cleared for any calibre (as far as he is aware, he has farmed it for over 20years now) Would the FO clear flat land on the condition that the shooting be from the high seat only? Any help much appreciated Edited December 16, 2010 by TJ91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 i've seen the condition of shooting from a high seat only imposed before - so yes in theory you should be allowed. you will most likely have to find a mentor as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted December 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 i've seen the condition of shooting from a high seat only imposed before - so yes in theory you should be allowed. you will most likely have to find a mentor as well i have been out with a friend in scotland a couple of times he has said if i get FAC he will take me out when i go up there (obviously when open ticket is granted) i wouldnt be going out on my own or shooting at anything alive until i have the utmost confidence in shootign the rifle and hitting the target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 the problem with a mentor is you will only be able to shoot in his prescence - so you really need to find someone local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted December 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 the problem with a mentor is you will only be able to shoot in his prescence - so you really need to find someone local So if applied for FAC .243 for fox and deer on this one piece of land i would only be granted it if i had a mentor?? How long would i have to have a mentor for? Thinking along the lines of doing the DSC aswell, when time and money allows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 it's all a bit random across different police forces i'm afraid - depends on your past experience. Metoring can be a year or until your next renewal (5 years). chances are though if you have your DSC1 then they'd allow Deer without a mentor (providing you're not a nutter). Best to speak to other local FAC holder to see how your FLO acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted December 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 it's all a bit random across different police forces i'm afraid - depends on your past experience. Metoring can be a year or until your next renewal (5 years). chances are though if you have your DSC1 then they'd allow Deer without a mentor (providing you're not a nutter). Best to speak to other local FAC holder to see how your FLO acts. ok thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 I am on a mentoring condition with my .243, so for now I have to shoot in his presence. However, I can shoot either on his land, or on any other land over which I have permission, and that has been cleared by the chief of police. So, from that point of view I have a closed ticket with a named mentor on it. As for high seats, one named location on my ticket does state "shooting from high seats". If I want to go stalking somewhere else, then I can do accompanied stalks with an estate rifle, I just can't use my own! The above is how it was explained to me by my FEO. Speak with your local FEO and he will tell you what is what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted December 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 Whats the reason behing not beiong allowed to use your own gun on an accompanied shoot on an estate? as that is what i would like to do (maybe a couple times a year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 Whats the reason behing not beiong allowed to use your own gun on an accompanied shoot on an estate? as that is what i would like to do (maybe a couple times a year) You will be able to do that once you are no longer under the mentoring condition! Crazy, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 unless you have a condition like mine that simply says "when accompanied" if you say you want to buy some stalking they should give you more leeway to shoot in different places rather than just name one mentor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 (edited) I am on a mentoring condition with my .243, so for now I have to shoot in his presence. However, I can shoot either on his land, or on any other land over which I have permission, and that has been cleared by the chief of police. So, from that point of view I have a closed ticket with a named mentor on it. As for high seats, one named location on my ticket does state "shooting from high seats". If I want to go stalking somewhere else, then I can do accompanied stalks with an estate rifle, I just can't use my own! The above is how it was explained to me by my FEO. Speak with your local FEO and he will tell you what is what. I don't understand that one, surely any land you do an accompanied stalk on will be cleared, and you obviously have permission to be there. You are safer using a gun you are experienced with rather than a loan gun. And any guide you have should be competent! That simply doesn't add up! Many people use their own rifle on paid stalks, it can be the only reason they have it! Edited December 16, 2010 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Its if his ticket restricts him to when accompanied by a specific mentor, bull poop I know but a bit like shooting on uncleared land you can do with someone elses rifle under their conditions but not your own. Barmy but that is firearms law for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 (edited) So if applied for FAC .243 for fox and deer on this one piece of land i would only be granted it if i had a mentor?? How long would i have to have a mentor for? Thinking along the lines of doing the DSC aswell, when time and money allows Nick's reply to this was accurate but only to a point, it really does depend on what area you are in. It appears that all areas have different ideas on "mentoring"! I had a montoring condition on my .222 for foxing but that was only on my ticket for a couple of months, it was taken off as soon as my mentor sent in a letter saying that he had been out with me on numerous occasions in differing conditions (Daylight, Lamping, etc) and that in his opinion I was perfectly safe and did not require "Mentoring" or "Accompamying" any more. The Lancs Firearms Office were happy with that, but that does not mean that other areas would be! Once again as per all FAC Issues I believe that it could be a bit of a post code lottery! Doing your DSC1 would most certainly be seen as a good and responsible move in any area, I have already started studying for mine! Edited December 17, 2010 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I don't understand that one, surely any land you do an accompanied stalk on will be cleared, and you obviously have permission to be there. You are safer using a gun you are experienced with rather than a loan gun. And any guide you have should be competent! That simply doesn't add up! Many people use their own rifle on paid stalks, it can be the only reason they have it! I agree fully, but while the mentoring condition is written on my FAC that is exactly what I am stuck with. Fortunately my mentor thinks I am ready to go (he thought that a while back to be honest) and we now have to write in and tell the Police how many stalks I have done etc. and how it all went. They really want to hear from him that I am safe, the fact that I shot four deer with him is relevant but only part of it. I am told they like to hear how I choose not to take shots if not safe/legal etc. and that I am patient, and also "reaction to shot" is calm and measured and such like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I don't understand that one, surely any land you do an accompanied stalk on will be cleared, and you obviously have permission to be there. You are safer using a gun you are experienced with rather than a loan gun. And any guide you have should be competent! That simply doesn't add up! Many people use their own rifle on paid stalks, it can be the only reason they have it! I agree fully, but while the mentoring condition is written on my FAC that is exactly what I am stuck with. Fortunately my mentor thinks I am ready to go (he thought that a while back to be honest) and we now have to write in and tell the Police how many stalks I have done etc. and how it all went. They really want to hear from him that I am safe, the fact that I shot four deer with him is relevant but only part of it. I am told they like to hear how I choose not to take shots if not safe/legal etc. and that I am patient, and also "reaction to shot" is calm and measured and such like. Yep, I fully inderstand the conditions, and I am a deer mentor for Wilts, Thames Valley and the Met, but I cannot see your region refusing you permission to shoot on paid for, accompanied stalks, with your own rifle, it is additional mentoring and a benefit to you! Bloomin' daft if they did refuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Does this 'mentoring' only apply to people who have no experience of rifles at all,even rimfire.I know loads of people who have centre-fire rifles for deer etc,but know of no-one who has had to have a mentor.I've shot rf for donkeys years,but was simply granted a .243 when I applied.Is mentoring law or just a condition stipulated on the whim of a Chief Officer of Police? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Does this 'mentoring' only apply to people who have no experience of rifles at all,even rimfire.I know loads of people who have centre-fire rifles for deer etc,but know of no-one who has had to have a mentor.I've shot rf for donkeys years,but was simply granted a .243 when I applied.Is mentoring law or just a condition stipulated on the whim of a Chief Officer of Police? thats hit the nail on the head mate, his whim mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 TJ91 I can give you advice others will struggle to as I also live near york and am under north yorkshire FLO so know what they are like. Okay North Yorkshire are very kind and fairly liberal and understanding in the issuing of firearms. I was 17 when I applied for my first FAC and got .17hmr and .22lr open no mentors no nothing on my initial grant no thats at 17 with very limited previous experience. Then, 5 months later I was granted .223 and 6.5x55 once again with no mentor and both open with almost 1000 rounds through the hmr and a bit more stalking experience. I didn't need to do DSC1 but did it anyway and got a lot from it and my land is fairly flat being in the vale of york I got told shooting from an elevated position be it high seat for deer or the top of the truck for fox but there are some places that shots could be taken off sticks but i was told not to be shooting prone. Ring the FLO and have a chat they will be very helpful and give you some advice. All the best with your application. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 I feel only being able to shoot with a particular named mentor is unreasonable and one should speak to thier shooting association for advice on removing this single name buisness and having simply competant person etc. I have in the past and will willingly mentor anyone in firearms and deer as will most i know, the same way i myself got help and advice in the days before mentors were ever thought up. On the face of it its a good thing but the issue is some "experianced" persons are not all they seem as there is no qualification or verification criteria. I have known open tickets granted to target shooters with very limited experiance off range Shooting from elivated angles is safer and the general line that is taken on such ground- However great care should still be taken especially at present with the ground frozen hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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