Andy75 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) hi guys Just a quick intro really about me : I'm Andy (duh!), am 30 years old, and have been shooting with air rifles and shotguns for about 20 years now. Nearly all (98%) of my shooting is pigeon / crow / occasional pheasant days, and I have owned a variety of shotguns over the years to my present pride(ish) and joy - a 12g Rizzini o/u mc (no laughing a the back!). After living "up here" (originally from wiltshire) for the past 5 years, I thought its about time to get some shooting together up here, instead of going back to shoot with the old man on rape or roost. I work for a large agri equipment manufacturer (www.bomford-turner.com) so know or have a "certain sway" with local farmers. There are a fair few shooters at work too, so what better way to get away from her indoors than out in the fields with the guns and good friends. Now, to the question - I like my Rizzini, but am thinking about something else to go with it...something different (well, to me anyways). I'm considering a Beretta AL391 semi (12g, 30", mc) mostly for the rough stuff and pigeon...now my Dad is basically trying to disown me, telling me that semi's are hateful objects that shouldn't be allowed in a hide etc etc and that its just a bad idea to "waste my money". I am of course aware that for the odd pheasant day I may get, the semi probably would not be allowed / gratefully received, but for normal day to day stuff...? they aren't dangerous are they? I argued with the old boy that its the shooter thats dangerous, not the gun, and that with proper care and due (normal shooter savvy) attention, that no harm can come of using one. Am I doing the wrong thing by getting one of these beasties? I have read through a few posts tonight and see that a lot of you use semi's too, so would like some thoughts on the subject. One of the guys from work thinks they are a bit "cowboy" whilst other are fine with me going off with them and a semi. any thoughts? ...And thanks for the great site! Edited February 20, 2006 by Andy75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Just like any other gun, its the fella behind that counts and not the gun its self. If you have a safe record with firearms, then their is no difference, as any gun can be unsafe in the rong hands. I have had a semi-auto fo the past 14 years, never had a problem with it, or with anyone else, they seem to get excepted more over here. Mine is a Baretta A 304, real work horse. The Al 391 you mentioned are excellent guns too. If i were you, id go for it, if its what you really want, then dont let others stop you. They are ideal for the type of shooting you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Hi there welcome to PW.If you shoot OK with the Riz,why would you want to change it? Semi`s are good,but costly to feed and if you shoot well with an o/u it can take a while to get "into" shooting a semi,or it does me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have owned a variety of semi autos and there have been many good reports about the AL391 posted on here (try a Search). Some time ago I realised that I owned many shotguns that I either didn't use, or need. Among those that went were two semi autos, a Remington 1100 and Beretta 301. Do I miss them ? No, I rarely used, or needed three shots. I can shoot everything I want with a multichoke over and under. If I ever extend my collection again, I will buy a different gauge, perhaps another 20 bore, but not an auto. PS. Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Sorry, forgot to mention, Welcome to PW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy75 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Thanks for the welcomes guys its nice to find a community like in existance on the net what with all the anti's about :< I get your point about the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Cranfield... I guess I'll have to try a couple out and see if it does anything for me first really. If the old chap has his way, I'd be getting a silver duck, but I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 welcome to PW the semi argument is a pretty common one, some love them some hate them. personally i cannot afford to own a good one (in my opinion you need to buy a beretta of some sort in reasonable condition £350+) however i have used a good number of semi's particually the beretta 303 and 391 teknys Gold (tarts gun ) i must have put 1500 carts through my dads 391 and i love it to bits. the things i like about it is this: the gun has alot of drop on it for such a short Pull (length from trigger to butt pad), there is very little recoil and as such i can move up to heavier loads without getting smacked silly. The gun is also quick to reload, simply tucking one extra cartridge into it after every shot, and as such is always in a ready to fire state (no breaking the gun as a bird flys over). They also tend to have large chambers (3" or sometimes even 3.5") things i dislike: the things are known as 'muck spreaders' at one of my clay ground, and this name is appropriate. Picking shells out of stinging nettles is not one of my fav past time, i wouldnt miss having to do this. The guns cover your face with crud (you dont notice it at the time, but as i was shown by and instructor, as the day goes on you rub your eye more and more and i can see it being a problem to those who dont wear glasses). The guns are quite long, as the action is about 2 inches long, so tend not to swing as nicely as a O/U (in my opinion). A good semi auto is expensive, a new 391 will set you back over £500, one with nice wood will set you back more like £1000. They are frowned uppon by alot of people as they are harder to proove empty/safe. sounds like alot of negatives, and it is, read into it what you will. Personally i will be buying a semi auto when i have the money. But im certainly in no hurry to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenlander Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) Welcome Andy, as a semi owner (391Teknys,and yes i'm a tart ) and a user of o/u and s/s i may as well offer you my oppinion. A semi is just as safe as any other gun ,and as a hide gun for shooting pigeons ,in my oppinion are far easier to use than a brake open gun, as you will know when sitting behind a net you can be quiet low and it can be a bit of a job to break the gun enough to load it,you have to watch the muzzle do'snt get muck up it,then when you close it and raise the muzzle,it is all to easy to snag it in the net. This is one advantage there are others and i'm sure others will add there own thoughts, one or two disadvantages, they arent as easy to carry about as a rough shooting gun,if you are in company with others, with a break open gun ,when you arent expecting a shot you can break the gun and carry it in the crook of your arm,and it can be seen to be safe, with a semi ,i never feel comfortable doing this ,either physicaly or from a safety point of view, so carry it with the barrel pointing straight up,however this is also uncomfortable and the gun soon gets heavy, they are'nt as easy to unload and I usualy end up with cartridges laying in the mud,which then have to be whpiped clean before being put in the gun again. Just a few pros and cons,as I said there are many fores and againsts, If you fancy one get one ,I would'nt be without mine, All the best Mick. Edited February 20, 2006 by Fenlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caplock Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Hi there, A semi also has the advantage of taming the super speed carts available today should you find yourself using them. The remmi 3.5" sportsman steel on the right has a bloody good kick when let through an over and under, so much so that my mates stock cracked through the pistol grip on fowling trip in Dec after letting go both barrels almost simultaneously. Not a happy chap True the Baikal auto I was using spat them all over the place but is still in one piece and I think autos are more suited to these hostile environments, especially the synthetic models. Enjoy whatever you get, Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy75 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi all, Isn't the reduction in kick due to some of the charge gases being used to cock the action though? doesn't this result in less FPS at the business end, and hence lower range? I guess maybe thats why the 391 has 30" barrels? not sure - anyone confirm a reduction on muzzle velocity? thx again for the replies so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caplock Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Hi there I don't think the velocity drop is a problem, the shot charge is already well over supersonic speed I read somewhere even before it passes the gas ports in an auto with all powder burnt and maximum pressure developed. It is a very quick pressure pulse that operates the piston assembly in a gas operated auto that slams the piston rearwards against the operating spring taking the bolt and fired case with it before commencing the reloading sequence. The gas autos recoil less I assume because this spring and the mass of moving parts are absorbing the recoil rather than your shoulder. I've certainly not noticed a drop off in auto verses o/u performance. Cheers John. Edited February 21, 2006 by caplock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi all,Isn't the reduction in kick due to some of the charge gases being used to cock the action though? doesn't this result in less FPS at the business end, and hence lower range? I guess maybe thats why the 391 has 30" barrels? not sure - anyone confirm a reduction on muzzle velocity? thx again for the replies so far! i believe the 391 can have anything from 28" too 32" barrels. i have never had any problems related with velocity, i cant tell the difference, and to my knoledge it dosent effect my scores in anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Andy, I use both O/U and Semi Berettas(386,391). Take them both to the clay ground just to have a bit of variety! The first 391 I sold to Axe, then went and brought another within the week. Brilliant guns, especially for hide shooting/rough. I have found that sometimes they don't cycle fully with the lighter loads - 24gm mainly, but otherwise perfect. Go get one matey.... Enzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_est Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi, There is a place and time for both. I have a Beretta 391 Xtrema 3.5" which I use for Wildfowling and will start to use on clays. This is fine when shooting alone or with a couple of trusted people. When out with others on a shoot (be it formal or informal) I would use my S/S. These are just my opions but get 1 of each, BUT it you can only have 1 it would be a O/U. Trev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy75 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 hmmm..thanks for the feedback guys. Right I'm gonna stick my laptop on eBay then visit Andy @ Avalon with a wedge of cash! I shall keep the Rizzini too for days when it might not be appropriate to use the semi. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 i have always shot with autos from the age of 17 thats 25yrs . i have 6 12g autos and a 20g . i love to use them for pigeons or ducks for which i use mostly a benelli 121 camo its a fantastic gun i also have a benelli beccacia model which is 6lbs in weight and with no kick at all i use this when i am out with the my pointer for quails . i will never be with out an auto it is part of my life as i would not be with out my s/s or o/u ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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