activeviii Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 A-max 52gn 21.5gr Benchmark powder cci 400 primer ppu once fired brass, not cleaned in anyway Tikka T3 222 10pm sub zero temps first firing for 4 weeks. 100 rounds loaded 5 weeks ago and stored bullet up in the safe. With the help of Neil, NJC on here, i started reloading for the 222 tail end of the summer. all has been good and no problems other than pilot error, couldn't hit a group like Neil can. All has been good and a nice grouping, i have put 50 rounds though the Tikka with no problems what so ever tonight i went for a walk and lamp in hope for a charlie as i havent been out on the 222 for a few months other than killing paper. anyway, tonight a charlie made the mistake of coming to close and just sitting in the lamp without moving, i dropped to the bi-pod and chambered a round. charlie sitting at 60mtrs with my cross hair on its boiler room. squeeze the trigger and...Click..count to 5 and spit the round...new round in and cross hair on the mark again...Click...count to 5 and spit round 2. cross hair on again and Click..thats 3 rounds, one after the other. now im Miffed, confused and a little worried that i have 3 rounds on the floor that havent gone bang. 4th round in the chamber and hair back on charlie, who by now must be as confused as i am as he is still sat there. i squeeze the trigger and BANG!!! charlie slumps and i just dont know what to make of what has just happened. Ok maybe i should have waited longer between taking the unsafe round out the chamber but thats for another day. what the hell is going on. i have had a look at the Primers and their all well dinked. the one that did go has flatted the primer against the bolt but thats normal. i put another round down and there was no problem with that one. whats your thoughts gentlemen as im at a lost at the moment and a little worried about the other rounds that have been loaded. thanks in advance for any help you can offer me. All the best Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 sounds like your firing pin isnt working right. light strikes. if not that when you come to load up your brass again get a primer pocket cleaner. and clean the primer pockets. as this can have afect on a dud round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 the pin has hit hard, this was my first thoughts, thinking the oil has gone thick in the cold and im really hoping it is the problem but i only use light machine oil on the bolt and pin, if anything i keep it on the dry side. i have a pocket cleaner now and a sonic cleaner but these round where loaded before i started to clean them. I will put them though the rifle again tomorrow and see if they let go, if they do then fingers pointing at the pin. strip polish and re-oil after i think.. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxon88 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 how did you clean the cases before reloading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsniffer Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I would agree with jamie..firing pin or dirty primer pockets..also could be some dirt inside the hole where the firing pin protrudes yet can still hit the cap but not with enough force...i had this problem with my H+K 53 at work and did find a small piece of ****..quick clean and good to rock and roll. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) the pin has hit hard, this was my first thoughts, thinking the oil has gone thick in the cold and im really hoping it is the problem but i only use light machine oil on the bolt and pin, if anything i keep it on the dry side. i have a pocket cleaner now and a sonic cleaner but these round where loaded before i started to clean them. I will put them though the rifle again tomorrow and see if they let go, if they do then fingers pointing at the pin. strip polish and re-oil after i think.. Phil. But do you strip it down and clean it.? Just out of interest ( nothing to do with your problem) do you trim your brass. Edited January 29, 2011 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 My thought swould be either dirty primer pocket, or primers not fully seated. Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 fualty primers, either contaminated or just plain mis made (proveded they were adequatly dinked by the pin)case lube or even natural skin oil or sweat i believe can create this but i once tried to disable some federal primers with WD40, water 3 in 1 oil the works and couldn't but all the manufacturers say you can spoil them realy easy so perhaps you did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy111 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Don't think it is a mechanical fault with bolt. I think you need to go back to basic reloading procedure Clean all cases AND primer pockets. If you don't do the job right, expect a XXXX result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I went out with NJC today and after a bolt strip and clean we put the rounds back in, one at a time. i clicked 6 times i pulled the trigger and nothing. so i put a fresh round in and that went no problem at all. on the reloading side. the brass is once fired PPU. never cleaned any of the other ones before, maybe this is a wake up to tell me to start doing it. and start cleaning the pocket out as well. the primer can t seat any deeper as i use a Lee Loader and a girt great mallet I havent trimmed the brass yet but after this load have been used i will then. just want to find what a case should measure as i would like them to be spot on if i could. all my brass from now on will be cleaned in the ultrasonic clean and pocket check on ever one before reloading. i use tweezers for picking the primers up and putting in the re-loader si it cant be that. i hope its not a duff batch as i have 6-700 left :blink: thanks for your input guys. all the best Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 1st thought wpould be the firing pin, it happened to me the other week while out stalking, very cold damp weather !!! Strip the bolt and clean all the old oil out using spirits using a paint brush or simalar.use a light oil around the internals, put back together then see how it is then, with a bit of luck it should have sorted it. if not then get the pin looked at. it could be the primers are contaminated with oil or lube but i doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 The firing pin/bolt is fine, i have stripped and cleaned and then tried the rounds again but they didnt go, all the other rounds i tried have been fine. I'm putting it down to Primers but as of yet i dont know where i have gone wrong. their stored in a dry place and i use tweezers to pick each one out and drop in in the priming tool. so im thinking the pocket was to dirty for them. next question. i dont have a loading press as i started to reload to try save money so i use a Lee Loader and it has been working well. so can i put the unfired rounds in the kinetic hammer to take powder on bullet out for reuse and then put the primed cases in the rifle and fire them off before removing so i can clean the cases properly before reloading. I need to save money bit at the same time i need to save my fingers, hence why im asking first about the hammer. All the best Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yes you can dismantle with a kinetic hammer and the brass and bullets can be re-used, it sounds to me like you have some bad primers return them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yes you can dismantle with a kinetic hammer and the brass and bullets can be re-used, it sounds to me like you have some bad primers return them can i still pull the bullet on a good round though, as in one that has primer powder and bullet in. im a little worried about the lot going bang.lol. Almost lost my eye sight in one eye last week so im a little edgy about things at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Done it loads, Always empty each load from the hammer and personally i discard the powder. Remember static electricity can set powder off burning i put it into a glass jar then burn it in small amounts. Goes without saying that safety is your own responsibility though this is exactly what kinetic hammers are used for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 the primer can t seat any deeper as i use a Lee Loader and a girt great mallet Phil. Strip the duff rounds down, bet the only fault is the primer went pop as you seated it. Don't ask me how I know....... Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Right, All 100 stripped and put down the rifle to fire primers. guess what the percentage of duff ones was? All brass stripped, de-primed, trimmed, ultra sonic cleaned and all sparkling now. in oven for an hour to 100% dry and then i will reload them. so how many out of 100 didnt fire? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 75? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Right, All 100 stripped and put down the rifle to fire primers. guess what the percentage of duff ones was? All brass stripped, de-primed, trimmed, ultra sonic cleaned and all sparkling now. in oven for an hour to 100% dry and then i will reload them. so how many out of 100 didnt fire? Phil I bet you are going to tell us now that for some reason only known to witches and warlocks They all went off :o Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Your right Ian, all 100 fired Im still at a lose as to why it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Blimey :o I was only having a laugh :o :o :o You need to get into a mode of ellimination, the first thing i would do is cadge a box of primers of a mate load them up with powder and bullets and see what happens. If you get failures to ignite again, do any of your mates also have a .222? If so try one of the duds in his gun, if it ignites then you know its most likely a problem with your gun. If all the borrowed primers fire then you can be pretty sure that your initial batch of primers may have a percentage of contaminated ones. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I was at a complete loss as to why this would be happening. Very little chance of lube being in there as the loader only neck sizes. A small amount of lube helps but it goes nowhere near the base of the round. Looking at the cases the pockets didn't look too bad, not dirty enough to cause an issue I don't think? I've home loaded on the heavy side of 7500 rounds and I've 1. Never until I got my .243 cleaned a pocket and 2. Never had a misfire! What I don't like is that 3 in a row didn't fire, then since those three everything has worked. I would only point towards the rifle, but the primers were repeatedly clicked and still wouldn't go. With the odd Shotshell I've had not go, the second whack sets them off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm going to do what NJC told me to do and that is forget about it or it will let the gremlins in every time i go to pull the trigger and as its only used for charlie slotting then i don't what the thoughts of 'what if' coming into head as i pull the trigger. I'm going to put it down as bad luck and as they say it comes in 3's then we will be ok from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 What type of container were you storing them in? Have these ones been in the field before? Random variation seems unlikely given that it was 3 in a row and none of the rest. That tells me that something happened after loading. Could there have been any water/oil in the cartridge box you stored them in? Some liquid ingress might have done it. Or, have these rounds been in the gun before, unloaded (but dropped in the wet grass/snow) and put back into the box? If it were a bad batch of primers, poor (but consistent) cleaning practices, or other general handling practices, it would show up as random variation. Three in a row directly out of the gun says systematic error to me, not random. Thanks Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 all the brass i use has come from PPU rounds that i buy, use then reload. until now i have never cleaned brass. the storage box is one that holds 50 rounds, the green ones but i cant remember who its mad by, MTM or something. their all new boxes and haven't been in contact with oil or water. i have left 4 rounds in the mag for a while but there stored in the same place as the rest of my bullets, powders and primers which is a dry safe. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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