Salop Matt Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 As above if I got the setup I listed in my previous post I would look to use a small light bullet so small volume of powder needed this being somthing like a .222 with a t3 mod shooting a 30-40grn bullet ! What I am concerned about is the noise difference between a HMR with DM80 mod vs the above .222 setup ! If the triple is going to be way louder then I may just walk away from it, its the only real thing that would stop me making the purchase ! Cheers guys and sorry for all the questions ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 As above if I got the setup I listed in my previous post I would look to use a small light bullet so small volume of powder needed this being somthing like a .222 with a t3 mod shooting a 30-40grn bullet ! What I am concerned about is the noise difference between a HMR with DM80 mod vs the above .222 setup ! If the triple is going to be way louder then I may just walk away from it, its the only real thing that would stop me making the purchase ! Cheers guys and sorry for all the questions ! It should not be WAY Louder, but it will be louder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerstalkerlunt Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 It should not be WAY Louder, but it will be louder! But you would have a hell of alot more accuracy with the .222 and longer distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I've got a 223 with a T8 and a HMR with a DM80. The 223 is louder, but it is also a different sound. The HMR is quite a high pitched crack, and the 223 is more of a deeper sound. I wouldn't let the additional noise put you off buying the triple though, it will still be pretty quite. Why do you want to shoot such light bullets? I have found 50 grn bullets are much better on foxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I've got a 223 with a T8 and a HMR with a DM80. The 223 is louder, but it is also a different sound. The HMR is quite a high pitched crack, and the 223 is more of a deeper sound. I wouldn't let the additional noise put you off buying the triple though, it will still be pretty quite. Why do you want to shoot such light bullets? I have found 50 grn bullets are much better on foxes. Good point, and I only just picked that up...what sort of choice is there of 30g heads for the .222? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 There are a few, but they are very short so have a big jump to the lands. Also, a standard twist barrel will have trouble stabilising them as they are so short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 my mate uses light bullets with n110 powder, believe it or not the the hmr sounds louder. he uses this to good affect on rabbits out to 200 yards and any fox under this range also drops stone dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_in_the_midlands Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 If you are in Salop you are only a short distance from Minsterly ranges. You could go and have a listern to what different rifles sound like. I have a .223 with an a-tech moderator. Probably similar sound. Am thinking of having a day over there soon if you are interested in hearing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Salop you are getting led on a bit of a wild goose chase here, what you are trying to do is have a bunny and fox gun and in reality it doesn't happen. You are far better off having a fox gun and a bunny gun, that said you can take occasional rabbits with a centrefire fine but more for pest control than eating. A .222 will have a certain noise to it whatever you do, downloading it and trying light ammo will not achieve what you want and you are definitely not quite getting the difference light ammo makes. I use lighter bullets in my .243 on foxes as they are faster flatter and more destructive, then swap to heavier ones for deer that won't explode as much on impact. Your best idea is getting out with someone with one rather than making a decision based on all and sundry on a forum as everyone has different ideas and some have ideas and have never even used the gun they base their opinion on. Personally in your situation I'd have a .223 for foxes and keep the HMR, I would be very wary of a super cheap .222 that you are being warned has problems before buying it. There are too many cheap guns about with no problems, depending on budget I had trouble shifting a ready to go remi 700 with enough consumables to reload for a year or two and that was cheap. It also shoots very small groups. It won't however ever be a bunny gun but the same is true for any centrefire. You can shoot them but you wouldn't go and empty mags as fast as you like which you can do with your HMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Salop you are getting led on a bit of a wild goose chase here, what you are trying to do is have a bunny and fox gun and in reality it doesn't happen. You are far better off having a fox gun and a bunny gun, that said you can take occasional rabbits with a centrefire fine but more for pest control than eating. A .222 will have a certain noise to it whatever you do, downloading it and trying light ammo will not achieve what you want and you are definitely not quite getting the difference light ammo makes. I use lighter bullets in my .243 on foxes as they are faster flatter and more destructive, then swap to heavier ones for deer that won't explode as much on impact. Your best idea is getting out with someone with one rather than making a decision based on all and sundry on a forum as everyone has different ideas and some have ideas and have never even used the gun they base their opinion on. Personally in your situation I'd have a .223 for foxes and keep the HMR, I would be very wary of a super cheap .222 that you are being warned has problems before buying it. There are too many cheap guns about with no problems, depending on budget I had trouble shifting a ready to go remi 700 with enough consumables to reload for a year or two and that was cheap. It also shoots very small groups. It won't however ever be a bunny gun but the same is true for any centrefire. You can shoot them but you wouldn't go and empty mags as fast as you like which you can do with your HMR Lot of good advice here and i will agree very much indeed i think that a .222 is a pathetic rabbit gun and to compare it to the HMR is crazy, one cannot replace the other they realy are that different. Even shooting them in the head with a .222 won't leave a lot of meat as fragments of scull and vertibra will act like tiny misiles inside and often smash the back legs to smithereens, more often you will end up with something that looks like a multiple strike road kill. Perhaps the only real crossover do both with one gun is the hornet. its hard to reduce energy and retain accuraccy by handloading as what you are doing is creating an inefficent load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Many thanks for the replys lads much appreciated. I guess I will have to go back to the drawing board then as I am at capacity with the cabinet as its a 5 gun and we have 3SG and 2 Rifles, so if I went for a 3rd rifle I would have to invest in: Variation, New or second Cabinet and the fitting, Reloading gear, reloading components and Rifle + mod. So back to the drawing board with what appears to be my 3 options: #1. Work a hell of alot harder with the HMR and perserver with it as I can leagally do both with it ! #2. Sell my HMR and replace with centre fire and the reloading gear and components and use my FAC rapid as my only rabbit tool. #3. Go for for a 3rd rifle and invest in: a Variation, New or second Cabinet and the fitting, Reloading gear, reloading components and Rifle + mod. (#3 may require a small lottery win ! lol) An absolute last resort would be to get someone else in with CF to help but I dont know anyone with CF very well that I feel I would want to ask ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 personally forget the reloading at the moment, you really won't use many rounds when foxing so go slowly to start with. Buy a .223 £300 - 400 should get you a rifle and possibly mod, then ammo is between £10-20 a box but once zeroed it lasts a fair while if just shooting foxes. Out of your selection I'd ditch the pump action so you still have cabinet room. Reloading you are looking at the equivalent of at least 100 rounds to get set up and that is absolute minimum which would last most fox shooters the thick end of a year even with some zeroing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_in_the_midlands Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Put me down as standby if you get to the absolute last resort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Many thanks for the replys lads much appreciated. I guess I will have to go back to the drawing board then as I am at capacity with the cabinet as its a 5 gun and we have 3SG and 2 Rifles, so if I went for a 3rd rifle I would have to invest in: Variation, New or second Cabinet and the fitting, Reloading gear, reloading components and Rifle + mod. So back to the drawing board with what appears to be my 3 options: #1. Work a hell of alot harder with the HMR and perserver with it as I can leagally do both with it ! #2. Sell my HMR and replace with centre fire and the reloading gear and components and use my FAC rapid as my only rabbit tool. #3. Go for for a 3rd rifle and invest in: a Variation, New or second Cabinet and the fitting, Reloading gear, reloading components and Rifle + mod. (#3 may require a small lottery win ! lol) An absolute last resort would be to get someone else in with CF to help but I dont know anyone with CF very well that I feel I would want to ask ! Have to consider the Hornet as the best crossover fox + rabbit tool myself, considered one loads for the same job spoke to lots who do as such but alas its getting to the stage that i have too many guns myself but if i were to replace a gun with one i would choose the HMR and this will probebly happen if i find the right deal one day. Forget the HMR for anything other than the odd easy fox IMO the more stuff i kill with it the more i appriciate its terminal and balistic limitations, practice and persiverance can only take you so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Have to consider the Hornet as the best crossover fox + rabbit tool myself, considered one loads for the same job spoke to lots who do as such but alas its getting to the stage that i have too many guns myself but if i were to replace a gun with one i would choose the HMR and this will probebly happen if i find the right deal one day. Forget the HMR for anything other than the odd easy fox IMO the more stuff i kill with it the more i appriciate its terminal and balistic limitations, practice and persiverance can only take you so far There is no calibre that will do both efficiently, because the requirements of each are so different, any dual purpose rifle will be a massive compromise one way or the other. Even a Hornet will be too powerful for rabbits, and will only be good for fairly short range foxes. If you need to control a lot of rabbits, the 22LR is hard to beat and cheap to buy and run. For foxes, 222, 223 or 22-250 make fox control easy and humane, and give a margin for error that you don't get with the HMR or Hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Maybe I should shed a little more light on this. The offer i have had is : BRNO .222 T3 MOD Lee press RCS (?) Dies Scales Powder funnel Bullet puller Primer remover Resizer Trimmer Powder Primers brass Bullets All for £200 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 if it doesn't shoot straight you have filled your slot with a gun that needs £500 minimum spent on it to make it shoot. So effectively is only worth money for the action for a possible custom job, the fact you have been warned it has issues would make me stay well away. Otherwise effectively you have a scrap gun and some reloading bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 That is cheap and as we all know, if it is too good to be true....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I might try to buy just the presses and dies / mechanical tools then and leave the rifle and mod ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) everything except the dies and brass would be fine for reloading any .22cf and the mod would also thread dependant fit Problem is on a budget you can buy a lot of factory ammo for the price you will pay for that lot Edited March 15, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Ian I will bear you in mind, can you PM me some details of where you are what you have and what experience you have ! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 As a dual-purpose rifle, the Hornet absolutely DOES do both jobs well. It does not explode rabbits, they are perfectly edible with a head shot. It drops foxes to 200 yards without issue. It is the same volume as HMR (I have tested this with Deker; there was no audible difference), and it's the same price if you're reloading. Reloading Hornet is a doddle anyway (if you use Lilgun powder you don't even need to weigh the charge - just fill the case with it!) and you can load plenty of ammo quite quickly. I have Hornet, 222 and 223. I tend to shoot everything with the triple as it will do 200 yards easily, where the Hornet does it but you have to work at it, and generally I am too lazy! The 222 does mash the rabbits a bit more and it is a little bit louder, but it's not much. Either way, I definitely recommend binning the HMR, many better choices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 All my shooting would be done under 200yards as thats my comfort zone maximum. With the HMR I wouldnt shoot past 80yards but the HMR does 70% of my shooting and the Rapid is doing the remaining 30% ! 95 % + of my shooting is bunnys the rest being pigeon and fox. So retaining my rabbit capability is what comes first and foremost. I have £600 I could spend if I go CF which I feel is to much money really to tie up in a fox rifle that may take 10 fox a year ! Or are there other out there who tie this sort of money up in a rifle that only see`s 10-15 kills a year and maybe 50 target shots ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 SS the difference is its 10 easy kills, there are lots out there mostly who shoot deer that use a rifle for that amount of shooting. Compared to airguns centrefires are a bit of a bargain for what you get and its a different aspect to the sport that is a little hard to explain but basically foxes being pretty wiley things you can go out looking a fair bit without seeing them so yes its only that many a year but its a fair few nights out with the gun. With that in mind and your budget you can definitely get set up, I kept my HMR and went .223 and then .243 and the HMR definitely has a place shooting bunnies from a vehicle you can't beat it if you have many. My first .223 cost me £600 plus scope and ammo was £17.50 a box job done so pretty much in your budget. They are about far cheaper if you keep your eyes on the gun sales and .222's and .223's do come up when people switch to a deer caliber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 The budget would have to cover: variation, rifle , mod and a second cabinet ! I think I will have leave this and re-visit it 12 months with some more pennys saved and hopefully the mrs will be open to the idea also ! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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