Ackley Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) I thought this may be of interest to those who wish to zero there rifles correctly,there has been a few post lately on here by so called experts and there freinds who obvioulsy havnt the first clue on the matter anyway hope it expalins things clearly and then you can make your owm minds ups http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/guns-and-shooting/shoot-better/rifle-shooting-tips Edited May 7, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace32 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 nice idea,would of been a better article if he had of quoted some examples for popular calbre,s ie,.22 lr,,.17 hmr...223 etc,or even for the rifle he uses himself,instead of just repeating some thing he read in a mag some where,,ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) nice idea,would of been a better article if he had of quoted some examples for popular calbre,s ie,.22 lr,,.17 hmr...223 etc,or even for the rifle he uses himself,instead of just repeating some thing he read in a mag some where,,ian the caliber of rifle dosent matter mate "you" have to find your point blank range is,this is where a good ballistic programme comes in handy with real time data installed in it Edited May 7, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace32 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 here is abit of info,ian http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I think the article is simplistic. This for example; In the field, a deviation of two inches on small deer is acceptable– that’s the stalking certificate standard. But by sighting in two inches high at 100 yards you can aim ‘dead-on’ at much greater range without affecting your ability to shoot at shorter ranges than the standard 100-yard zero allows. If the rifle in question, which isn't specified, shoots 3" high at 150yds what use is that on your 2" killzone ? Useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Who wrote that? sounds like he read it elsewere and plagearised it! personally having tried otherways i prefer a benchmark set zero yet still adjust for come ups or downs, the shooter should understand all ways though then choose the way that is most suited to him and his/her own shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I thought this may be of interest to those who wish to zero there rifles correctly,there has been a few post lately on here by so called experts and there freinds who obvioulsy havnt the first clue on the matter anyway hope it expalins things clearly and then you can make your owm minds ups http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/guns-and-shooting/shoot-better/rifle-shooting-tips why do you have to take such an insulting stance? instead of entering reasonable debate and discusion? if you read stuff you don't agree with tell us why you think its wrong put forwards your arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) why do you have to take such an insulting stance? instead of entering reasonable debate and discusion? if you read stuff you don't agree with tell us why you think its wrong put forwards your arguments probably because like me he is sick to death of the same pompous smart alecs preaching at us all the time, KW Edited May 7, 2011 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 here is abit of info,ian http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm you will get some spectaculary embarrasing misses over the top at easy ranges using the hmr data on that one, the individual must choose. with my own hmr zeroed at 100yds around eighty yards is the area of caution (peak trajectory over) the further you push it the worse it gets and harder to range by eye. personally i can live with being a bit higher than ideal at 80 ish and having to use progressive hold as i start to push it past 100. I once saw a good stalker miss an easy close back of the lug shot on a fallow through using this way, its not always a case of big target far off though it might be on the big open flat planes. in times of pressure/stress like when a deer you thought dead lifts its head or a fox pokes his head out at 30yds that you forget to aim low and by just how much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 probably because like me he is sick to death of the same pompous smart alecs preaching at us all the time, KW preaching and debating are different things. personally i try and just speak from my own real life experiances and avoid making comments purely to annoy. have i personally made any personal remarks about you? the OP made unnamed direct insults in his very first post, it is an interesting article, so is the link to chuck hawks- blindly exept it without any discusion why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 why do you have to take such an insulting stance? instead of entering reasonable debate and discusion? if you read stuff you don't agree with tell us why you think its wrong put forwards your arguments hold on a min here who am I insulting ?? I dont see your name,do you ?? so in that case pick your dummy up and move on and let the thread run for those who may be interested in the subject rather than your drivel,be under no illusion my freind if I had anything to say to you I would be it on here or to your face,so dont try to read thing that isnt there,or do you feel a liitle guilty about something you have said on other post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I disagree with that article for my circumstance. I see the point if you wish to maximize range without dialling in. However, I do dial in for longer range as it is precise. Also the range of 130 yards is HMR, 22cfs go much further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 That's another 5 minutes off my life I'll never get back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 So what it's saying is keep zeroing my rifle they way I always have....22-250 1inch high at 100 yards smack on at 200 yards I always zerO to this and it works well for me....BUT I find if I use Lee dies i get better results.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Personally I dont think there is a "right" way to zero "your" rifle. Its your rifle, do what you like with it. That said, I do think there is a big difference between the stalker/shooter/hunter who wants to be able to pick up his rifle and shoot quarry at any range between 30yds and 200yds without thinking about holdover or adjusting scope settings. Its the reason that the majority of sporting scopes dont have quickly adjustable turrets. Those who have a range finder, target turrets and change scope settings prior to making a shot are by definition not using the principle of MPBR. Those who zero at a specific distance and keep the scope settings fixed are. most people who zero one inch high at 100yds (as opposed to zero at 200yds) do so for a number of reasons. Consistency at 100yds is always going to be better than at 200yds. (that is not an invitation to show .5" groups at 300, 400, 500yds, if you can do 1" at 200yds you can do better at 100yds..its simple geometry!) A large number of stalkers have never needed to, wanted to or considered taking a shot at 200+ yds. I was taught to zero 1" high at 100yds, with a 270 130gn factory round it gives me a 4" MPBR of 230yds. That said in over 20yrs I have never shot a deer at anything over 150yds. never had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I like the idea of zeroing as described in the link and will be giving it a test run next time i check zero, it seems to give a far better mpbr which appeals to me, if i can point and squirt from zero to about 225yds that would do me fine mikee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I like the idea of zeroing as described in the link and will be giving it a test run next time i check zero, it seems to give a far better mpbr which appeals to me, if i can point and squirt from zero to about 225yds that would do me fine mikee thatsb the whole idea mate point and squirt,sound a bit like a porn film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 hold on a min here who am I insulting ?? I dont see your name,do you ?? so in that case pick your dummy up and move on and let the thread run for those who may be interested in the subject rather than your drivel,be under no illusion my freind if I had anything to say to you I would be it on here or to your face,so dont try to read thing that isnt there,or do you feel a liitle guilty about something you have said on other post I didn't say you were insulting me personally, i said you have an insulting stance generally. If you think otherwise re- read your first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I didn't say you were insulting me personally, i said you have an insulting stance generally. If you think otherwise re- read your first post. go on then I give up obvioulsy you read lots more into things than me you should read the some of the one liners I get,Oh you do as you post them Edited May 9, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Personally I dont think there is a "right" way to zero "your" rifle. Its your rifle, do what you like with it. That said, I do think there is a big difference between the stalker/shooter/hunter who wants to be able to pick up his rifle and shoot quarry at any range between 30yds and 200yds without thinking about holdover or adjusting scope settings. Its the reason that the majority of sporting scopes dont have quickly adjustable turrets. Those who have a range finder, target turrets and change scope settings prior to making a shot are by definition not using the principle of MPBR. Those who zero at a specific distance and keep the scope settings fixed are. most people who zero one inch high at 100yds (as opposed to zero at 200yds) do so for a number of reasons. Consistency at 100yds is always going to be better than at 200yds. (that is not an invitation to show .5" groups at 300, 400, 500yds, if you can do 1" at 200yds you can do better at 100yds..its simple geometry!) A large number of stalkers have never needed to, wanted to or considered taking a shot at 200+ yds. I was taught to zero 1" high at 100yds, with a 270 130gn factory round it gives me a 4" MPBR of 230yds. That said in over 20yrs I have never shot a deer at anything over 150yds. never had to. very well put viewpoint, have you never considered that you might have been as well using a 100 base zero all those 20 yrs ago and having a slightly more presise zero on all the targets you took (up to 150) during the period? I have used the MPBR method myself but found it easier to allow for the extra elivation of the ocasional longer range shot easier than holding under at peak trajectory for small kill zones, all said and done its easy to see something at 200yds as significantly further out than 100 by eye and over that as pushing it without good reason and accurate ranging etc. most stalking rifles are only going to be around 3" low at 200 yds anyway. The further shots are always taken on high persentage (larger) kill zones anyway, why hamper yourself or ignoor the short range small kill zones and always go for lung shots? I have fired second shots on deer that raised thier head slightly after dropping and droped a few on the spot with high and low neck shots when a lung shot would have made for a possible difficult recovery or just didn't offer that broadside shot, just my own opinions,thoughts and reasons why i choose the other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I think it is a basic article but a realistic article and gives the reader the option of using the technic if he or she wishes. As has been quite rightly stated here it is the firer who makes the choice as to how he/she zero's their rifle, if they are happy with which ever method they choose and the final outcome then so be it. I do use the set high method and have done all my life both with my civilian rifles and all the way through my Army career. I find it very effective but at the same time do not state that it is or is not the best way to zero, we all have the ability to choose which method we prefer to use. I am a bit disappointed that certain forum members are allowing disagreements from previous threads to filter over to new ones. Sadly it is the usual suspects who are spoiling the pleasure for the other users. I know that debate is good and it helps to put each person’s opinion over so that the other members have the option to agree or disagree, use or not use the ideas for their own benefit. Unfortunately it is becoming a habit for these usual suspects to try and hijack each other’s or other users threads to engage in keyboard battle in an attempt to bring there opposites in previous conflict down to the low slagging match that has occurred in past threads. Please guys stop being so childish and agree to disagree because it is beginning to lower the standard of a quality Forum. Slangevar, Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 have you never considered that you might have been as well using a 100 base zero all those 20 yrs ago and having a slightly more presise zero on all the targets you took (up to 150) during the period? I have tried it, but with the 270 you are talking a variable of less than an inch under 150yds and it would then require the shooters range judging skills to come into play, as well as judging holdover on variable target sizes. the drop at 200 with a 100 zero is 3" (well 2.64" to be precise) that is a 3" estimate of holdover versus a 1" variation from Point of aim. With a 4x or 6x stalking scope for fast target acquisition and follow up, holdover measurement on a solid brown target can be very tricky to judge. I'll stick with the 1" variable rather than the potential 3" holdover IMO the 1" high at 100yd technique allows the holdover decision to be removed from the equation when shooting deer inside 200yds. When I have just crawled through a burn and am lying next to a peat bog in driving rain and hail, last thing I want to be doing is mental arithmetic and measuring by eye on a beast 150yds away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted May 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have tried it, but with the 270 you are talking a variable of less than an inch under 150yds and it would then require the shooters range judging skills to come into play, as well as judging holdover on variable target sizes. the drop at 200 with a 100 zero is 3" (well 2.64" to be precise) that is a 3" estimate of holdover versus a 1" variation from Point of aim. With a 4x or 6x stalking scope for fast target acquisition and follow up, holdover measurement on a solid brown target can be very tricky to judge. I'll stick with the 1" variable rather than the potential 3" holdover IMO the 1" high at 100yd technique allows the holdover decision to be removed from the equation when shooting deer inside 200yds. When I have just crawled through a burn and am lying next to a peat bog in driving rain and hail, last thing I want to be doing is mental arithmetic and measuring by eye on a beast 150yds away. I take it you have never heard of or used a range finder,amazing tool especially incorperated in a set of binos,1 action does 2 jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) I have tried it, but with the 270 you are talking a variable of less than an inch under 150yds and it would then require the shooters range judging skills to come into play, as well as judging holdover on variable target sizes. the drop at 200 with a 100 zero is 3" (well 2.64" to be precise) that is a 3" estimate of holdover versus a 1" variation from Point of aim. With a 4x or 6x stalking scope for fast target acquisition and follow up, holdover measurement on a solid brown target can be very tricky to judge. I'll stick with the 1" variable rather than the potential 3" holdover IMO the 1" high at 100yd technique allows the holdover decision to be removed from the equation when shooting deer inside 200yds. When I have just crawled through a burn and am lying next to a peat bog in driving rain and hail, last thing I want to be doing is mental arithmetic and measuring by eye on a beast 150yds away. I do see the point your making and agree, if its anywere up to 200 hold true and fire! The reason i don't personally use it is the fact that at a certain range less than 100 you can be over 1" high and that limits you to chest shots end of, so it limits your points of aim (ok not a big issue on open ground, but in cover they can amble down a ride facing the wrong way) being as it is a lot harder to call 75 yds or 110 than it is to see 100 or 200. But i supose the difference is i am not shooting the same venues as yourself. If i was i shouldn't change my point of aim for a 150 yds chest shot either as i am still gonna be well within the zone and ranges like 200 do tend to look somewhat more distant by eye or through the scope and if i hold 3" higher thinking 200 and its actually 175 or 225 the result will be the same. Heck no! on second thoughts i need a lazer range finder a wind clock and wind meter and lap top and no need to crawl through that bog and creep down that burn with wet feet. I can just shoot em from the back of me pick up Edited May 10, 2011 by kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 10, 2011 Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 laser range finders weren't an option 20yrs ago! if they were they were probably seriously expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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