Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hmmm,does this mean sarcasm goes over your head or are you sitting on that fence again? Right sako, firstly the term 'sitting on the fence' means of weak opinion,neither falling one way or the other,now let me think mmmmmmmm, didnt think my feelings on long range varmint shooting were hard to read, the second, sarcasm, the poorest form of whit, I would never expect to find it here, on this forum so would not expect it from a high standing individual like yourself. (plank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Right sako, firstly the term 'sitting on the fence' means of weak opinion,neither falling one way or the other,now let me think mmmmmmmm, didnt think my feelings on long range varmint shooting were hard to read, the second, sarcasm, the poorest form of whit, I would never expect to find it here, on this forum so would not expect it from a high standing individual like yourself. (plank) Its WIT old boy. Redgum,would it be a surprise if your mates had ever called you educated? Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 In the eyes of joe public we all kill animals with guns, to them how we do it is of no concern. Its this kind of internal bickering that rots away shooting from the inside. We all enjoy our chosen style of shooting and to be honest have no right to criticise each others methods, its like saying to a chinaman i dont like the way you eat because you use chop sticks! I enjoy shooting rabbits at long range and have equipped myself to do this because this is the style i have chosen. I do not regard my way as the only and have no problems with any other forms of shooting animals but "I NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL" criticise anyone elses chosen shooting sport, alas that is clearly not the case with several who posted on this thread which is a real shame because after all we are shooters and all in the same boat. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 In the eyes of joe public we all kill animals with guns, to them how we do it is of no concern. Its this kind of internal bickering that rots away shooting from the inside. We all enjoy our chosen style of shooting and to be honest have no right to criticise each others methods, its like saying to a chinaman i dont like the way you eat because you use chop sticks! I enjoy shooting rabbits at long range and have equipped myself to do this because this is the style i have chosen. I do not regard my way as the only and have no problems with any other forms of shooting animals but "I NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL" criticise anyone elses chosen shooting sport, alas that is clearly not the case with several who posted on this thread which is a real shame because after all we are shooters and all in the same boat. Ian. I am sorry but I couldn't agree with you less . I do not conceder my self to be in the same boat as your self and will always query the mentality of some body who wants to use high powered centre fire rifles to shoot pests and game at long range ,proberbly dressed in cammo or a ghilly suit ,as we have seen on here using range finders and dial in programs to shoot at live quarry . Why not set up some paper targets to shoot at or coke cans . You would at least be able to say that you were target shooting . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I am sorry but I couldn't agree with you less . I do not conceder my self to be in the same boat as your self and will always query the mentality of some body who wants to use high powered centre fire rifles to shoot pests and game at long range ,proberbly dressed in cammo or a ghilly suit ,as we have seen on here using range finders and dial in programs to shoot at live quarry . Why not set up some paper targets to shoot at or coke cans . You would at least be able to say that you were target shooting . Harnser . I can wholeheartedly agree with you after reading your post, because i would not want to be in the same boat as you my friend, i would sooner go down with the ship then share a lifeboat with you and your blinkered opinion How can you call yourself a shooter, real shooters look after each other and show a unity for their sport. I would defend your right to practice what ever form of shooting you engage in to my upmost ability, and i find it very sad that there are people like you who cant embrace other forms of the same sport. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) I can wholeheartedly agree with you after reading your post, because i would not want to be in the same boat as you my friend, i would sooner go down with the ship then share a lifeboat with you and your blinkered opinion How can you call yourself a shooter, real shooters look after each other and show a unity for their sport. I would defend your right to practice what ever form of shooting you engage in to my upmost ability, and i find it very sad that there are people like you who cant embrace other forms of the same sport. Ian. I would concider myself not so much a shooter but more a sportsman . At least in my life boat there will be some edible game to eat . Harnser . Edited July 10, 2011 by Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) I have to say its the kind of post you never know is quite genuine or not but you have to look at the odds of wounding a rabbit even at that distance as being fairly remote with a centrefire. We all have differences in opinion on ethical matters Redgum I think head shooting deer as your usual shot is a little iffy but don't ridicule for the opinion. So far I've only shot rabbits to a bit under 250 yards but was mighty tempted by some at 400 plus the other night munching away at a cover crop in a valley Really don't want to get involved in this thread other than to the point of what I've already written. I will say though that it is each to their own, I can see the thrill in long range shooting of prey but find my self suffering a bit of a moral dichotomy (is that the right word!) I would enjoty doing it but would feel bizzarrely guilty for doing it.. If the projectile hits the torso then, yes, very little chance of wounding it BUT a CF at those kinds of ranges has the very real chance of taking limbs off and leaving the bunny to bleed to death in agony.. Youtube is full of long range kills, some good some bad, some stupid, some absolutely criminal. Doesn't make it moral or tasteful or safe. It also doesn't take much wind to completely screw your dope up.. the vid of the guy shooting the 2 bunnies did it in conditions with pretty much NO wind.... that wouldn't be an issue for most semi-experiences riflemen.. up the wind by a mere 2-3 mph and they would be ********! To the keyboard snipers who have suggested it is as easy as punching numbers into a BC with data from your weather station etc..... PLEASE go and post it on forums where there won't be shooters who actually shoot these kinds of ranges competitively and can smell the BS seeping through their routers... I have thousands of pounds worth of kit for measuring evry possible variable and would still not like to guarantee a head shot everytime in anything other than perfectly still conditions, Kestrels and BCs will get you very close but they won't give a guarantee.. if it was that easy I (and every other f-class shooter in the world) would be shooting perfect scores everytime and there would be absolutely no point to it! Knowing the conditions at the muzzle is one thing and is a good guide but the important thing is to know how those conditions change down range... no BC can do that for you! One last issue that really bugs me is flight time... At 500yds we are looking at anything from 1/2 to 3/4 of a second... that is more than enough time for a bunny to move and turn an intended head shot into one that takes a back leg off... if you are comfortable with that possible outcome then fine, although to me, it does show a complete lack of respect for life. Out to 1,000 yards we are looking at almost 2 seconds! To the poster who shot a pigeon at 1,050YDS. Cracking shot mate... WHAT THE **** WERE YOU THINKING?!!!! Moral argument aside, how the chuff can you be sure that the area downrange is clear and safe, there could be anything between you and the target and chances are you wouldn't be able to see them as with a scope turned up enough for that kind of shot you would have no FOV! That one is pushing the bounds of stupidity and getting very close to negligent! That kind of shooting should be left for very tightly controled ranges regardless of the intended target! Edited July 10, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Its WIT old boy. Redgum,would it be a surprise if your mates had ever called you educated? Touche. At oxford we were all eaduikated old boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 The thrill of any type of hunting is the stalk , be it rabbits deer or any thing, not the kill . To stalk a deer to 100 yards is proberbly one of the best thrills you will get from hunting . Not taking pot shots at mega ranges . I have stalked deer in close on many occations and decide not to take the shot because I enjoyed the stalk so much so I left the buck for another day . REMEMBER THE THRILL IS IN THE STALK NOT IN THE KILL . Harnser . for you maybe i dont get paid by being good at at sneaking up on stuff i get paid and my employment for killing stuff wehter its a rabbit with a 243 or deer with a 222 killing is the biggest part in shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Of course it's pest control! The rabbits are shot as they are pests, who gives a toss how far away so long as they are killed clean. Putting rabbit on the dinner plate is a part of shooting them, but if food is your primary reason for the kill, that's sport rather than pest control, where the object is no more rabbits. Seriously, farmers don't care if their rabbits explode into a thousand bits or kick like nobody's business after an air rifle pellet to the head. Dead is dead! Harnser, your opinion is perfectly valid. For me, the thrill is the marksmanship, the cold bore shot, safe in the knowledge I worked hard at my prep work before the shot. Long range rsbbits are satisfying, they fall over before you ever hear the hit, and it's a good feeling. Pest control? Not exactly efficient though, is it. I can sneak up on rabbits and kill 6 in under 10 seconds before they know i'm there. That is pest control. With all this reading the wind and drop of shot etc etc, long range shooting is far from efficient. With a moderated .22, the ammo is cheap and effective. This all turns into sport for me (fully enjoyed) pest control for the farmer- who is happy, remuneration for sold rabbits and a meal for someone at the end of it. Now,can someone tell me the point in shooting rabbits at long range when using a .22 is a far better option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I've just taken a half grown rabbit from about 600 yards away. Stalked it down to zero with a Citroen Picasso on the B1398. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I've just taken a half grown rabbit from about 600 yards away. Stalked it down to zero with a Citroen Picasso on the B1398. Now using a projectile well over 100grs that is user controlled is allowed in my book, it also gives the rabbit a chance, when they get crafty and dodge between the wheels its time to get the reliant out the cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Pest control? Not exactly efficient though, is it. I can sneak up on rabbits and kill 6 in under 10 seconds before they know i'm there. That is pest control. With all this reading the wind and drop of shot etc etc, long range shooting is far from efficient. With a moderated .22, the ammo is cheap and effective. This all turns into sport for me (fully enjoyed) pest control for the farmer- who is happy, remuneration for sold rabbits and a meal for someone at the end of it. Now,can someone tell me the point in shooting rabbits at long range when using a .22 is a far better option? Long range shooting is very efficient. half the time they just sit there after the first one and then you can crack on. It's all about choice. i have no issue with people crawling through mud if that's their game. If you would stop me shooting from a long distance, you (you in general, not specifically you Motty) are no better than an anti - you fail to understand and see my enjoyment so you think to simply ban it. yep, very fair and allied to a cause. If you don't enjoy longer shots then fine, but do not call it inhumane or wrong. I know what I am doing and I make sure the tool in question will annilihate the rabbit, so it is a clean kill or a clean miss. No great strife either way, but a good hit is very satisfying. If you think that the shooting is too risky, I put it to you that you don't have the kit or skill to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Long range shooting is very efficient. half the time they just sit there after the first one and then you can crack on. It's all about choice. i have no issue with people crawling through mud if that's their game. If you would stop me shooting from a long distance, you (you in general, not specifically you Motty) are no better than an anti - you fail to understand and see my enjoyment so you think to simply ban it. yep, very fair and allied to a cause. If you don't enjoy longer shots then fine, but do not call it inhumane or wrong. I know what I am doing and I make sure the tool in question will annilihate the rabbit, so it is a clean kill or a clean miss. No great strife either way, but a good hit is very satisfying. If you think that the shooting is too risky, I put it to you that you don't have the kit or skill to do the job. and i think this thread is a big ol macho rant any how ya all just twitter and **** like cow shed sparrows lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) for you maybe i dont get paid by being good at at sneaking up on stuff i get paid and my employment for killing stuff wehter its a rabbit with a 243 or deer with a 222 killing is the biggest part in shooting And I dont get paid for killing "stuff" and would never want to be paid for killing "stuff" .There is a big difference between killing "stuff " and sporting shooting . Killing game is the end result in a succesful stalk and in my opinion not the biggest part of shooting . Harnser . Edited July 11, 2011 by Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Dead right there, I think this thread has lost it's path a bit! For me I enjoy taking a few longer range shots, but only om paper, as I don't like to risk wounding things, as harnser said himself for me it's about stalking the animal and the enjoyment that you can see it but it can't see you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 look lads i was not bragging and dont claim hit stuff 1st time every time it was a genuine post to see what intrest the was i have shot a pigeon at 1050yards with a 223 middlested costom built rifle owened and witnessed by greg t british f class champion so you tarrget shooters should know i am not lying I know who you are Crocket, I also remember the post on another forum that the big fella' put up about the 1050yd woodie. Dont worry about those that can't, or wont,attempt the sort of long range shots you take, if you listen to em' they will all tell you it's impossible Say hello to Greg for me next time you speak to him I haven't read through all the tripe on this thread but I bet there is a mention of 704yd hare in it somewhere. Regards,Sprags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 And while the can is being rattled, what about the safety side, you could easily be shooting over picnicers and those who work on the land without knowing it.The rabbits round vermincinators way must be quite differant to those round here, they feed and hop around nicely when undisturbed and politely sit up when they sense me so I can get a good shot. Enough of pulling the topic to pieces, in my view long range varmint shooting is not necessary,unsafe,inhumane and generally a bad practice and thats just my opinion but as individuals our sense of pleasure is gonna be differant other wise the wife would never have stayed with me this long. I've plenty of places where you can shoot very safely to 600 yards plus, You're looking for issues that aren't there you can be as unsafe at 20 yards as 600 that is the person behind the trigger. I'd also suggest that anyone who uses a shotgun will injure more quarry than anyone using a centrefire on small vermin at long range. The simple reason people do take shots at long range is because they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk52 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I would like to ask these long range shooters what they do when they don't hit exactly in the head. What happens if you "wing" a rabbit at those sort of ranges? Please don't say that you don't miss or you can hit a rabbit anywhere with a centrefire and it is dead. Do you then run the 600 odd yards to dispatch it humanely? Anyone who has ever shot out to those sort of distances and beyond will know the effect of the wind and a couple of yards out in your distance has such an impact on your elevation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Anyone who has ever shot out to those sort of distances and beyond will know the effect of the wind and a couple of yards out in your distance has such an impact on your elevation. Thats why they use rangefinders, wind meters, ballistic calculators with confirmed drop charts, and countless hours behind the trigger practising on inanimate objects. As al4x said, there will be far more quarry injured/wounded by shotguns than with centrefire rifles at long range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thats why they use rangefinders, wind meters, ballistic calculators with confirmed drop charts, and countless hours behind the trigger practising on inanimate objects. That's what the ignorant don't realize Browning, long range shooters practice a hell of a lot and quite rightly so. There is a website/forum dedicated to UK-long range shooting, it has a wealth of knowledge on it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thats why they use rangefinders, wind meters, ballistic calculators with confirmed drop charts, and countless hours behind the trigger practising on inanimate objects. As al4x said, there will be far more quarry injured/wounded by shotguns than with centrefire rifles at long range. Utter ********! apart from anything else you can't pop over and neck a wounded bunny at 1,000 yards, if it drops in the grass out of sight you are just condeming it to a slow painful death, that's if you haven't taken the hiker's head off in the process (who just happened to be in a slight depression, completely unseen by you and 900 yards away! At least with a winged or wounded pigeon or bunny at shotgun ranges it is an easy job to dispatch them quickly.. As far as I am concerned, irrespective of the moral implications, anyone shooting quarry over open ground (i.e. not a tightly controlled, DANGER FLAGGED rang at ranges beyond 500 yards)in the UK is behaving negligently, verging on the criminal. You cannot possibly be able to see if the arc of fire is safe, anyone could be there, particularly in Scotland where right to roam is law. Also, the elevation required at those sorts of ranges mean there sould be a safe fall off area behind the target which, again, in the UK, you just don't get unlike the US where you may have 1,000 miles of desert behind the target! And again... to all those who seem to be suggesting it is as easy as taking a wind reading and banging it into a ballistic calculator...... go tell it to someone who doesn't shoot these ranges competitively... I am more than happy to meet any one of you on Stickledown range @ Bisley so you can show me how easy it is... may be able to pick up some tips from you for my next match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 At least with a winged or wounded pigeon or bunny at shotgun ranges it is an easy job to dispatch them quickly.. As far as I am concerned, irrespective of the moral implications, anyone shooting quarry over open ground (i.e. not a tightly controlled, DANGER FLAGGED rang at ranges beyond 500 yards)in the UK is behaving negligently, verging on the criminal. You cannot possibly be able to see if the arc of fire is safe, anyone could be there, particularly in Scotland where right to roam is law. Also, the elevation required at those sorts of ranges mean there sould be a safe fall off area behind the target which, again, in the UK, you just don't get unlike the US where you may have 1,000 miles of desert behind the target! so the pigeon that gets pricked and you don't notice it or the one that goes into a slow glide then lands half a mile away is swift to deal with I can very safely were I to choose to shoot to 600 yards plus on our ground so am acting negligently according to you. This is open arable ground into the side of a hill, wood on top no footpaths anywhere near. So bull poop sorry you can be just as dangerous at 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 That's what the ignorant don't realize Browning, long range shooters practice a hell of a lot and quite rightly so. There is a website/forum dedicated to UK-long range shooting, it has a wealth of knowledge on it too. Perhaps this wana-be snipers forum is where this thread belongs . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Perhaps this wana-be snipers forum is where this thread belongs . Harnser . I think the RSPCA website would better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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