cocker/springer or lab

[kermitpwee]

nothing wrong with liver and whites ive got one too, just prefer my black and white ess of which i have two plus a black,yellow and fox red lab lol

 

Just wondering mate as my uncle always goes for black and white, have a look at my boy I put him in the companion pictures in the dog section yesterday.

Edited August 5, 2011 by kermitpwee

[MiLisCer]

Damn right there, needs a huge ammount of work, a strong hand and lot's of patience...my little Springer has been a revalation to train after having the Pointer from a pup and me pulling my hair out, she tends to fall asleep in the hide too, if she can't hunt she'll sulk, yawn then curl up and doze If it's a first gun dog i'd say avoid Pointers generally, they are brilliant dogs but a bit specialised...and headcases generally

 

I do know someone who trains GWP's and they really are a joy to watch but he puts in many, many hours with them and has been doing this for years. It depends what you want the dog for ultimately but if any hide work is involved from my experience i'd say look elsewhere.

 

 

Utter rubbish - there is no need for a strong hand with any dog - if you cant train a wire then you cant train any dog

 

I will happily stand on a peg with 4 wires sat in front as peg dogs - they wont move a muscle nor will they miss anything that falls.

 

Mine will sit in a hide on she 'shore and pick ducks out of the tide all day long - they dont move a muscle.

 

I don't bash the pigeons that often, but they are more than happy in a hide.

 

They will sit and watch the ferrets bolt rabbits for the hawks or guns.

 

as for getting where a cocker can? maybe you would like a day out on the woodcock with me - you will then see where they can go!

Mike

Edited August 5, 2011 by MiLisCer

[roadkill]

my lab was great but my cocker is even better , i beat and pigeon shoot great little dogs cockers only for me from now on

[vampire]

This has been an interesting read.

I started a similar one,asking which dog lab/sprocker and got various replies,one quoted "a lab is born half trained and a spaniel dies half trained"

I have to say that i dont like labs and much prefer spaniels as a companion/gun dog,the house i am working on at the moment has two sprockers and i am VERY impressed and surprised with just how calm they both are.

Having seen how good these dogs are i would get a sprocker especially after the praise from owners on here.

[ziplex]

Utter rubbish - there is no need for a strong hand with any dog - if you cant train a wire then you cant train any dog

 

I will happily stand on a peg with 4 wires sat in front as peg dogs - they wont move a muscle nor will they miss anything that falls.

 

Mine will sit in a hide on she 'shore and pick ducks out of the tide all day long - they dont move a muscle.

 

I don't bash the pigeons that often, but they are more than happy in a hide.

 

They will sit and watch the ferrets bolt rabbits for the hawks or guns.

 

as for getting where a cocker can? maybe you would like a day out on the woodcock with me - you will then see where they can go!

Mike

 

My post was aimed at GSP's (apologies for any confusion), it's not rubbish at all about needing a 'strong hand' maybe you took the post out of context but mine is so heavily influenced to hunt she has been very difficult to train in other aspects, again if you read the posts it was aimed at someone wanting a first gun dog to train and it can't think of a worse dog to try as your first gun dog (if my GSP is anything to go by). My Springer has been a doddle in comparison as perhaps GWP's are, another downside with my GSP is she isn't tolerant of very cold conditions/sitting steady after returning from water whereas the springer is ok. Maybe a GWP would be suitable for the OP but I still say from having owned a GSP don't bother and why look towards a GWP when the concensus is it's not best suited to sit in a hide generally? Reference a 'strong hand' it was to point out that if you do get a dog who's lines are so heavily influenced towards hunting you'll need a will of iron to change it's habits, I don't agree to giving a dog a whack BTW...for whatever reason.

 

Again Daz, good luck with whichever dog you choose, I still say springer or lab'

[rabbiter]

thanks again guys,im reading every single post and each has a good point,but as for GWP"s,out of the question im afraid,its definately going to be the spaniel route,which one,im still undecided,im taking my time over this,as the dog will be with me for life,good or bad,and its up to me to make it as good as i can...

 

DAZ

[the hitman]

Its another vote for a cocker from me. My dad always had labs for pheasant shooting/ wildfowling but never pigeons. When i left home i was always going to get my own lab. My wife was not keen on a dog , until one of her mates from work got a cocker from a rescue kennel . It was 2yrs old and my wife said she wouldn't mind one of them. 4 weeks later we had a 8 week old pup. He is 4yrs old now and is the business , he hunts pheasants like a machine , will pick a downed cock pheasant from distance , pick ducks out of the river Tweed ,and sit in a pigeon hide , as long as he can see the action he is happy.

The best compliment was when i took my old dad pigeon shooting ,and he commented , i wish i had one of them when i was your age.

Yes they are headstrong , but its all in the training.

Edited August 6, 2011 by the hitman

[kent]

Utter rubbish - there is no need for a strong hand with any dog - if you cant train a wire then you cant train any dog

 

I will happily stand on a peg with 4 wires sat in front as peg dogs - they wont move a muscle nor will they miss anything that falls.

 

Mine will sit in a hide on she 'shore and pick ducks out of the tide all day long - they dont move a muscle.

 

I don't bash the pigeons that often, but they are more than happy in a hide.

 

They will sit and watch the ferrets bolt rabbits for the hawks or guns.

 

as for getting where a cocker can? maybe you would like a day out on the woodcock with me - you will then see where they can go!

Mike

 

Utter Rubbish? depends on the lines M8, seen some British lines that don't compare to imports as regards hunting drive or aggresion with Large quarry. Todays English wires are way different from the earlier lines of the past, Personally i prefer the imported lines as they suit my own needs well. My own wire don't lack in facing cover and i mean any cover - OTHER THAN WERE A 37 KG dog can't phyically get! Try a cross between Vom Richthof's lines and Magnus and you will experiance what the true Draht is suposed to be. Staying put on peg etc is just time and training but with a few thousand Pinks out infront of you say if the dog doesn't fidgit a bit it aint a proper wire and thier heart aint fully in it IMO

[vampire]

thanks again guys,im reading every single post and each has a good point,but as for GWP"s,out of the question im afraid,its definately going to be the spaniel route,which one,im still undecided,im taking my time over this,as the dog will be with me for life,good or bad,and its up to me to make it as good as i can...

 

DAZ

 

I think what ever you get,it will have a good home

[scolopax]

Got to be a lab, there is a very good reason why they are so popular, because they are very good at what they do.

 

Spaniels are great for beating and walked up shooting but they can be very hard work to keep in, but once they are trained to keep close when working they are a real asset. What lets them dowm for me is their coat colour (springers)and size(cockers). Both also seem to suffer from the cold when stood for long periods of time during the winter.

[scolopax]

I've just got a wirehaired Vizsla pup - I've been led to believe they work similarly to a GWP, but require a much softer training programme, could be worth a look?

 

My dog is a wirehaired viz, never has a GWP but from what I read the HWV is a much more biddleable, much more softer animal. A bit 'odd' at times but in a funny way (funny ha ha). Very good retrievers, excellent on deer, full of energy. Major plus points compared to a rather large hairy teutonic breed is that they do not kill cats or try to rip the throats out of other dogs B)

[kent]

My dog is a wirehaired viz, never has a GWP but from what I read the HWV is a much more biddleable, much more softer animal. A bit 'odd' at times but in a funny way (funny ha ha). Very good retrievers, excellent on deer, full of energy. Major plus points compared to a rather large hairy teutonic breed is that they do not kill cats or try to rip the throats out of other dogs B)

 

Feral cats are seen as pure vermin by the "Hairy Teutonic Breed" in thier land of origin, you can break them to cats its just not easy with some. I havent yet seen one that was openly aggresive to other dogs personally, its just when they do eventually pop its not about proving a point (seems to get all mixed up with thier large quarry instinct)before that they will play like puppies

[daitai]

SPRINGER,SPRINGER,SPRINGER,SPRINGER,SPRINGER

[HDAV]

I am hoping to get a dog soon and am pretty set on a WSS, the other half on an ESS and recently saw some stunning labradoodles from pedigree mini poodle and working golden labs they have a lot of potential as a good gun dog smaller than a lab and different coat a friend has an "anettes" labradoodle and a stunning dog, shame he'll never get to use his talents in the feild

[WGD]

Your other half sounds clued up!

[HDAV]

Your other half sounds clued up!

Thanks mate just the sort of help I need!

[WGD]

Seriously mate, I've had a WSS (for 17 years): useless and pretty representative of the breed. And as for labrawotsits, don't get me started, they're mongrels and you have no idea what you're going to get, let alone their capability in the field.

 

At least with an ESS you can research breeding and parentage with certainty and you've a sporting chance of getting a dog that suits you.

 

Best of luck with the new dog when it comes

[HDAV]

Seriously mate, I've had a WSS (for 17 years):

How did you get one up there? they are rare down here! I would like to see a WSS against an ESS in the feild, seen some pretty impressive WSS at the http://www.welshspringerspanielclubofsouthwales.co.uk/ but not seen any ESS that weren't "too hot" for a pet dog.... or just plain bonkers!

[WGD]

How did you get one up there? they are rare down here! I would like to see a WSS against an ESS in the feild, seen some pretty impressive WSS at the http://www.welshspringerspanielclubofsouthwales.co.uk/ but not seen any ESS that weren't "too hot" for a pet dog.... or just plain bonkers!

 

I had her for 17 years, she's been gone a while now - I got her 25 years ago from a breeder not far from me.

 

Any dog bred to work will require an appropriate amount of stimulation (not just exercise, that only makes them fitter) to stop it becoming "plain bonkers".