worthy130 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Well after comming into work yesterday to a masacre of the poults (hundreds) and 8 dead sheep we decided to ring the police just to let them know that there may be stray dogs on the kill. Much to our suprise they gave permission to shoot any dogs that were worrying sheep or threatning our livestock as long as we informed them within 24hrs of us shooting them. Well we got both tonight, they came back the pen at dusk. 2 Collies will be off the vets tomorrow to see if they are microchipped so the owners can have a nice bill for 343 poults at £35 a bird!!!!!!!!! Sad but we are trying to make a living and that doesn't include the price of the dead sheep or the other 4 that are walking round ripped to shreds! Please keep your dogs under control when out and about. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 That's a real shame for everyone and animals involved a friend has had a similar problem with his partridges last year only factor that lead to the dog and owner being found was tracks in fresh snow. Following the dog tracks back to the fellas house. Fair play to him he paid for the dead birds rather than the the dog getting put down. Be good to no how this pans out hope you let us know. Kind regards Tristram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 343x£35! I hope they're insured and you get some recompense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I would be slightly concerned who might be the other side of the door when you tell them, " Hi, I've shot both of your dogs and you owe me twelve grand" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I would be slightly concerned who might be the other side of the door when you tell them, " Hi, I've shot both of your dogs and you owe me twelve grand" We had the backing off the police, we were acting within the law so nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Okay, I'm not saying you did the wrong thing at all, but be careful.. IIRC, if the birds were outside the pen then they are 'wild' and the dog owners are not liable to pay a penny in compensation. Likewise if the pen door is open or wire lifted I think the law would see them as unenclosed and therefore 'wild', and again the owners are not liable. Different matter for the sheep of course as they are domestic stock. By my understanding of the law in such a situation, so to speak, you may well be liable to pay out yourselves to compensate the owners for the loss of their dogs, if you shot the dogs when they returned if they were not in the act itself of killing enclosed game. Sniffing around a pen would not constitute an instant death sentence, again in the eyes of the law, for as you say the damage was done at an earlier time, i.e can you proove these were the dogs. IMO a decent solicitor could well cause you some serious grief. Edited September 14, 2011 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Not condemning what you did... but I don't think I could shoot a dog even in that predicament! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 We had the backing off the police, we were acting within the law so nothing to worry about. The thing is can you prove beyond doubt that the dogs you shot were the killers the previous night? After all you did not catch them in the act but returning to the scene of the crime If it were my dogs then i would want proof that you caught them in a pen and in the act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwie Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 good luck trying to get 12k out of them i think you may have a battle on your hands. you may get the price of the sheep of them if you can prove it was the two dogs. wot did you shoot them with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 The dogs would never get in the pen as they are too well built and have 3 strand electric fencing around the base. The birds arn't leaving the pen yet as they are our late poults for december shooting. The problem is the dogs patroling this and putting birds out of the pen (scaring them off roosting) then attacking them which is what they were doing when they were shot (they must have come in from the other side of the wood). As I also said we had the backing off the police to shoot stray dogs which we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Sheep worrying will have left blood on them too. The owner should have spotted that the first night and not let them out again. I too would have shot them without a moment's hesitation. Caught red-muzzled. The owner has only himself to blame. Bad training and management lead to their deaths, not your attempts to create a living in the countryside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 outside the pen = wild even if the dogs did scare them out they are still out. I can 100% understand why you did it but IMO you are on very dodgey ground no matter the police say. Maybe you would have been better off with SSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well after comming into work yesterday to a masacre of the poults (hundreds) and 8 dead sheep we decided to ring the police just to let them know that there may be stray dogs on the kill. Much to our suprise they gave permission to shoot any dogs that were worrying sheep or threatning our livestock as long as we informed them within 24hrs of us shooting them. Well we got both tonight, they came back the pen at dusk. 2 Collies will be off the vets tomorrow to see if they are microchipped so the owners can have a nice bill for 343 poults at £35 a bird!!!!!!!!! Sad but we are trying to make a living and that doesn't include the price of the dead sheep or the other 4 that are walking round ripped to shreds! Please keep your dogs under control when out and about. ATB So can you clarify a couple of points. Are there 4 sheep wounded by dogs that are still alive? How did the poults get killed if the dog could not get in the pen? Did the police tell you to shoot any stray dogs on site? Were the dogs worring sheep when they were shot? . If they wernt worrying sheep or actually in your release pen when they were shot, you may be on sticky ground. Were they microchipped? Hope you dont get any legal flack, but at least your stock was safe now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwie Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 then you have broken the law my friend no matter what the old bill have told you, out of the pen = wild and attacking gamebirds you cant shoot them for that no matter how much you want to, i would advice you to edit your post!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy130 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 then you have broken the law my friend no matter what the old bill have told you, out of the pen = wild and attacking gamebirds you cant shoot them for that no matter how much you want to, i would advice you to edit your post!! We have not broke the law 'my friend' if you read my post you may notice that i also said they were KILLING sheep!!! I posted this here to inform other keepers and Livestock owners what has happened on our shoot so that they know what they CAN do in regards to protecting livestock!!!!!!! I am not on this forum to be judged and you are not part of a jury. If you don't like what we have had to do then go away! The dogs were not microchipped and had no i.d tags so they could have been living wild for all we know. Oh and did you all know that you can shoot cats that have no coller on?? they are also classed as STRAYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwie Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I used to be a single handed keeper so am well aware of wot u can and cant do thank you, and have shot a dog before for worrying SHEEP so i have no problem with it. you said in a privious post you shot the dogs in the act of killing gamebirds outside your pen not chasing sheep around, they are most likly 100% the culprits of the sheep worrying and im sure you wont have anymore problems, but as i said you shot them killing game not sheep so from a keeper to another i was only sayin too edit your post just to cover your own back the world is a very small place thanks too the internet now. no id tags and no microchip doesnt always mean they are strays either! good luck with your season and i hope all is sorted out regards lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Well after comming into work yesterday to a masacre of the poults (hundreds) and 8 dead sheep we decided to ring the police just to let them know that there may be stray dogs on the kill. Much to our suprise they gave permission to shoot any dogs that were worrying sheep or threatning our livestock as long as we informed them within 24hrs of us shooting them. Well we got both tonight, they came back the pen at dusk. 2 Collies will be off the vets tomorrow to see if they are microchipped so the owners can have a nice bill for 343 poults at £35 a bird!!!!!!!!! Sad but we are trying to make a living and that doesn't include the price of the dead sheep or the other 4 that are walking round ripped to shreds! Please keep your dogs under control when out and about. ATB I'm afraid that I take offence and I suspect many others will to you coming on here and telling members of this forum to keep their dogs under control. Secondly, I sincerly hope that the owner of the said dogs is not a member of this forum because if they are I can see you being the one in court with a substancial claim for damages against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Why? They were shot while worrying sheep, which count as livestock; so it was legal. No problem as far as I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 cant help but think ,this should have been a case of dig a hole and keep quite rather than a post on a forum ,I would also guess that as gundog owners you are preaching to the converted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 They were shot while worrying sheep, which count as livestock; so it was legal. No they weren't. By his own admission they were outside a poult pen 'worrying' poults. They MAY have killed the sheep previously but they weren't when they were shot. If the dogs were mine we'd be heading for court, unless the facts have been slightly mis-stated. I'd have taken a hard copy of this thread by now if they were mine though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Why? They were shot while worrying sheep, which count as livestock; so it was legal. No problem as far as I can see. Not WHILE they were worrying sheep, it was the next day he shot them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Well after comming into work yesterday to a masacre of the poults (hundreds) and 8 dead sheep we decided to ring the police just to let them know that there may be stray dogs on the kill. Much to our suprise they gave permission to shoot any dogs that were worrying sheep or threatning our livestock as long as we informed them within 24hrs of us shooting them. Well we got both tonight, they came back the pen at dusk. 2 Collies will be off the vets tomorrow to see if they are microchipped so the owners can have a nice bill for 343 poults at £35 a bird!!!!!!!!! Sad but we are trying to make a living and that doesn't include the price of the dead sheep or the other 4 that are walking round ripped to shreds! Please keep your dogs under control when out and about. ATB The commenet about the pen can be read either way, but it can be read as a sheep pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antuk99 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Don't think I could shoot a dog but I'm a dog owner fox/rabbit/pigeon/deer I no qualms so each to their own i suppose I totally understand though good luck with your season I got my first day on sat been practicing on the clays today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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