Dekers Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think it is plain to see various people have a different view on the Perfect Shot! Best of luck to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Spot on. Yes I've shot several. To clarify "is it legal" for people who don't know? Well yes if you are killing the Deer as an act of mercy (shooting it if it's hurt beyond natural repair and in pain - humanely dispatching it). To go out and stalk Deer with that calibre wouldn't be and could get you in a lot of trouble. Given the choice I will always use a Deer calibre or a shotgun but if you happen to be called out by a land owner whilst foxing or stumble across one when out then whatever I have to hand is better than leaving it there to suffer. Luckily the Deer act has recently changed to accomodate the use of sub calibre rifles, a decision which I feel is very sensible. many thanks for clearing that up as I wouldnt like to think any tom **** or newbie thought it was legal to go and shoot a deer with a 22 hornet,maybe you should make things a little clearer next time that you are humanley dispatching injured deer form near point blank,thats why they fell on the spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think you have to look at which part of the heart you hit. Almost all the deer that I've shot which have gone on for upto say 150 yards have been hit in the lower part of the heart, whereas virtually all those who have dropped on the spot have been a high heart shot. All I would consider perfect shot placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think it is plain to see various people have a different view on the Perfect Shot! Best of luck to you all. Indeed. I have a question for the deerstalkers. You shoot two deer, same gun, same ammo. One drops on the spot, dead. The other runs 100yds and you follow a blood trail to it. Which one was the "perfect shot" ? It can't be both. I won't even comment on shooting a deer then having a cigar before bothering to see whether it was alive or dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Indeed. I have a question for the deerstalkers. You shoot two deer, same gun, same ammo. One drops on the spot, dead. The other runs 100yds and you follow a blood trail to it. Which one was the "perfect shot" ? It can't be both. I won't even comment on shooting a deer then having a cigar before bothering to see whether it was alive or dead. why not comment on having a cigar ?? obvioulsy you aint done level 1 or 2 DMQ as there is a question in there somewhere on how long to leave the follow up when a beast has ran,or are you one of these excited types whos on there toes as soon as the beast is on theres do me a favour mate "think about it" read this it may help http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/deer-stalking.cfm espeically "taking the shot" Mmmmmmmmmm minimum 5 mins the experts say Edited November 6, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 why not comment on having a cigar ?? obvioulsy you aint done level 1 or 2 DMQ as there is a question in there somewhere on how long to leave the follow up when a beast has ran,or are you one of these excited types whos on there toes as soon as the beast is on theres do me a favour mate "think about it" read this it may help http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/deer-stalking.cfm espeically "taking the shot" Mmmmmmmmmm minimum 5 mins the experts say I sat and watched,took a cigar out my pocket lit it and sat 20 mins enjoying the smoke 5 minutes, 20 minutes. I don't need DSC to tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 5 minutes, 20 minutes. I don't need DSC to tell the difference. obvioulsy you do as you seem to disagree with waiting,or didnt you think before you posted its Ok to make a mistake were only human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) obvioulsy you do as you seem to disagree with waiting,or didnt you think before you posted its Ok to make a mistake were only human Actually I did think, I thought about a deer lying wounded for 20 minutes whilst you enjoyed your cigar. I don't think deerstalking is for me, and I understand that there is a certain randomness when killing large animals, but is that kind of delay really necessary ? Edited November 6, 2011 by Catweazle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 i also think that it has alot to do with adrenalin as the blood is pumping more also the bullet into the heart might give it that last surge to run on i shot a muntjack a few months ago with my 270 and it jumped about 4 foot in the air and the bullet sucked out the heart and lungs it then ran 30yrds without its organs and crashed into a tree stone dead work that one out. i went hunting in nz earlier this year and watched a thar get hit 3 times in the heart with a 7mm rem mag with 160 grain bullets and it shrugged as if to say what the hell was that it walked off slowley before falling down .the same rifle shot one about thirty seconds earlier and it just slumped over these animals never cease to amaze me how tough they can be. surely a perfect shot is one with as little suffering as possible and it in the boot of the truck . i shot a roe in scotland in thick cover watched it drop on the spot still needed the dog to find it it fell into thick braches laid in a gutter it looked like a stone i would have been wandering around for hours if it wasnt for the dog,atb wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Actually I did think, I thought about a deer lying wounded for 20 minutes whilst you enjoyed your cigar. I don't think deerstalking is for me, and I understand that there is a certain randomness when killing large animals, but is that kind of delay really necessary ? typical responce from someone who doesnt know or understand what there talking about, yes the delay is necessary,as the entire post is about deer thats ran after being shot,the first thing they will do is run for cover the second thing they will do is get back up if they can and run again if something is persuing them,the correct thing to do even if a beast is lying on the floor in full veiw is to "wait a few mins" the time factor will depend on how the beast has reacted to the shot,never presume its dead as a deer can do strange things by waiting a short time or even a long time you are allowing the beast to settle down and will bleed out and die,yes it sounds cruel allowing a beast to wander off wounded BUT its the done thing as you dont want it running and dieing and not being found as it then would be cruel and waste full if you enjoy hunitng you will enjoy shooting deer,sometimes it not even about the shot Edited November 6, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 cat weazle ,that is best practice for deer ,if a deer is in danger it will run and run if you shoot one and it goes to cover leave it it will lay down and bleed out quickly rather than pushing it further onto other ground possibly not retrieving it,atb wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Actually I did think, I thought about a deer lying wounded for 20 minutes whilst you enjoyed your cigar. I don't think deerstalking is for me, and I understand that there is a certain randomness when killing large animals, but is that kind of delay really necessary ? Your wrong there old mate, there is no more 'randomness' with deer than any other shooting of living prey. In matter of fact, the people I know who stalk and shoot deer are rather more prepared and focused with care for the animals they hunt than the foxing crowd,not all maybe, but put 'Vermin' on a living animal and it seems the rules change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 yes it sounds cruel allowing a beast to wander off wounded BUT its the done thing as you dont want it running and dieing and not being found as it then would be cruel and waste full It sounds as if you are saying that being cruel is fine as long as it's not wasteful. I'm sure that isn't what you meant. if a deer is in danger it will run and run if you shoot one and it goes to cover leave it it will lay down and bleed out quickly rather than pushing it further onto other ground possibly not retrieving it Clear this up for me, is the delay to minimise suffering or to improve your chance of filling the fridge ? And explain why a "humane" shot needs 20 minutes to be sure the beast is incapable of running off. The more I read the less I want to shoot deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think you have to look at which part of the heart you hit. Almost all the deer that I've shot which have gone on for upto say 150 yards have been hit in the lower part of the heart, whereas virtually all those who have dropped on the spot have been a high heart shot. All I would consider perfect shot placement. Faster bleed out from high heart a thats were the plumbing is you also tend to do both lungs in, remember the key is oxygen to the brain being cut. I am sure that low levels of damage to the lower heart could lead to some blood still pumping. I have seen picures of healed wounds to the outer edges of lungs from broadheads i cannot think a lung shot with any deer calibre rifle would be surviveable though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) I won't even comment on shooting a deer then having a cigar before bothering to see whether it was alive or dead. Have to say this is a rare occasion where I agree with ackley I have been stopped smoking for nearly two years but I always used to sit and have a smoke and once finished walk to where I had visually marked the deer, and now that I don't smoke I twiddle my thumbs for 10 mins...I was taught to do this and continue to do this to let the deer bleed out and die calmly or let it lie down and settle rather than see me coming and try to run off if the shot was not where I thought... To answer the question about the perfect shot - I like to see them drop on the spot. Regards, Gixer Edited November 6, 2011 by gixer1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It sounds as if you are saying that being cruel is fine as long as it's not wasteful. I'm sure that isn't what you meant. Clear this up for me, is the delay to minimise suffering or to improve your chance of filling the fridge ? And explain why a "humane" shot needs 20 minutes to be sure the beast is incapable of running off. The more I read the less I want to shoot deer. if you dont understand now mate when several experienced deer shooters have told you the exact same thing then maybe shooting deer isnt for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Your wrong there old mate, there is no more 'randomness' with deer than any other shooting of living prey. In matter of fact, the people I know who stalk and shoot deer are rather more prepared and focused with care for the animals they hunt than the foxing crowd,not all maybe, but put 'Vermin' on a living animal and it seems the rules change. It sounds a bit random to me, if one deer dies on the spot, another heads for the hills and needs to be left 20 minutes to die. Sorry if this all sounds a bit anti, it wasn't my intention, but waiting 20 minutes to follow up a wounded animal just doesn't sound right to my uneducated ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) It sounds a bit random to me, if one deer dies on the spot, another heads for the hills and needs to be left 20 minutes to die. Sorry if this all sounds a bit anti, it wasn't my intention, but waiting 20 minutes to follow up a wounded animal just doesn't sound right to my uneducated ears. I don't think anyone waits 20minutes Catweazle but its advised not to rush up to a deer once shot. A deer is a big animal and a shot to heart/lungs will kill it through loss of blood, once down its best not to stress it anymore and let it die. Rushin up to the animal will cause extra stress and possibly put the animal back on its feet and into a position where its hard to deal with. A few minutes wait to access the animal, if its obviously only wounded then a follow up shot would be carried out. Edited November 6, 2011 by Redgum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 if you dont understand now mate when several experienced deer shooters have told you the exact same thing then maybe shooting deer isnt for you I'm sure you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It sounds as if you are saying that being cruel is fine as long as it's not wasteful. I'm sure that isn't what you meant. Clear this up for me, is the delay to minimise suffering or to improve your chance of filling the fridge ? And explain why a "humane" shot needs 20 minutes to be sure the beast is incapable of running off. The more I read the less I want to shoot deer. It sounds cruel but in reality your faced with two options shoot again (if possible this is the best) or wait deer stiffen up on thier wound couch and are not pushed on by adrenalin, go running off after it and you are unlikely in the extreame to win that one. Even using a large breed deer dog it is better to wait in "most" but not all woundings. Gut shots are very much ones to leave a while Without actual recovery the job cannot be finished, i might say a stalker needs a clear head and confidence he is doing the right thing- when it finally happens to them they don't sit there feeling good about bagging one and i can tell you every minute seems like an hour. To some this might come across calous but actual woundings rates are very low compared to other forms of shooting and recovery rates very,very good. If its not for you don't do it, but then why comment if you dont actually do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I don't think anyone waits 20minutes I think you'll find someone does. The rest of your post makes perfect sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 If its not for you don't do it, but then why comment if you dont actually do it Do you wait 20 minutes before checking the animal ? Is it common ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 many thanks for clearing that up as I wouldnt like to think any tom **** or newbie thought it was legal to go and shoot a deer with a 22 hornet,maybe you should make things a little clearer next time that you are humanley dispatching injured deer form near point blank,thats why they fell on the spot I wouldn't call 60 yards point blank. At the same time I wouldn't say a 60 yard shot with a Hornet is ideal. I think desperate to hit it before it left the ground I had permission on covers it best. I would hope though that no new shooters would try this. For a start it wouldn't be allowed on their conditions. The whole subject of leaving a wounded Deer is a tough one. Sometimes though you can hit them and they leg it. You know to a point with experience whether it was a good hit or not by the reaction the animal gives. Just picture hitting the Deer badly and it running to a position where a follow up shot isn't a safe option. If you reposition immediately it will run, possibly to somewhere you can't follow it up. If you leave it for a bit it will settle and stiffen up, calm down a bit etc. Then you have a chance of getting around it to put a second round in it without it running off. It really is a horrible situation to be in as you know how the animal must be feeling. The only thing that holds you still is knowing that leaving it to suffer for half an hour is better than bumping it off of your ground where it will lay up and suffer for much longer. The lesser of two evils is the only way to view it. It's not nice but compared to the other option it's the best choice. Luckily it really doesn't happen often, but knowing what to do when it does is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The reason for waiting a while to pursue a shot deer ,is to let the deer lay down and lick his wounds so as to say . Once the deer has laid down if mortally wounded and most of them are after being shot with a cent re fire rifle it will be unable to get on its feet again . This will give the stalker the best chance of shooting the deer again if necessary to finish it off with another shot . To leave them for a little is more humane than chasing the beast across fields or through woodland with a good chance of not finding the beast and not knowing what has happened to it . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) I will not comment on the perfect shot as it has been argued and commented on enough suffice to say there is a varied perception of what the perfect shot is. I would however like to say that I was always taught that if you are unfortunate enough to get a runner and a second shot was not possible, that you observe it as much as you can from a distance and note exactly where you last saw the beast before it went to ground. The reason for this has been stated already in that the beast should be allowed to settle, bleed out and die. The stress of being thumped hard and then the lack of function as the brain is deprived of oxygen does not need to be exasperated buy some fool chasing after it. The other obvious point is if you get to the beast too soon and it is not dead you could be putting yourself in very grave danger. Being stuck buy an antler no matter how big would not be a good way to end the stalk. So yes if I found myself in a situation like this, thankfully I have not, I would wait for up to 15 minutes before I wandered into the unknown and find my beast. The furthest I have had a deer run on me after a boiler room shot, was about 100 meters and lucky for me it was on the open hill with no forest block in sight. Edited November 6, 2011 by Blunderbust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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