Alanl50 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yet I've found Gamebore 20gauge 30g/6 subsonics to be awful with massively variable results over the chrono Weird I use Ely Hushpower 12g 32g, 6 shot fibre (Its all I can get locally) I have to confess never chrono'd them but do really well with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Weird I use Ely Hushpower 12g 32g, 6 shot fibre (Its all I can get locally) I have to confess never chrono'd them but do really well with them. alan, hushpower cartridges are just reduced velocity cartridges. reduced velocity is reduced energy. i`d allways go up a shotsize or two. to all steel shooters, the cip governing body for ammunition will only allow slow speed steel to be sold to the public. steel shells are made fast but not sold in the uk. if you want or need speed steel shells, there are several recipes using european powders. some loads have had great results. if you are after a light game load for shooting pigeons or similar small game, use 24g loads. 1oz is too expensive to manufacture and keep the pressures safe with good speed. so stick with 24g loads, powders to certainly look into would be vectan A0 pushing 24g steel 1500fps +. or a good healthy dose of tecna. both powders burn well, the latter is slow enough to get 1600fps easy. especially those light 24g loads. both can take small game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) alan, hushpower cartridges are just reduced velocity cartridges. reduced velocity is reduced energy. i`d allways go up a shotsize or two. to all steel shooters, the cip governing body for ammunition will only allow slow speed steel to be sold to the public. steel shells are made fast but not sold in the uk. if you want or need speed steel shells, there are several recipes using european powders. some loads have had great results. if you are after a light game load for shooting pigeons or similar small game, use 24g loads. 1oz is too expensive to manufacture and keep the pressures safe with good speed. so stick with 24g loads, powders to certainly look into would be vectan A0 pushing 24g steel 1500fps +. or a good healthy dose of tecna. both powders burn well, the latter is slow enough to get 1600fps easy. especially those light 24g loads. both can take small game. Hi Cookoff Yes I realise that thanks anyway Mate, when fired you can watch the shot leave and go away from the barrel lol, I have a single barrel 12g Pedretti Hushpower I use for a very sensitive area for rabbit control occasionally pigeons. ATB Alan PS You got any recipes for a subsonic load as above?? Edited December 11, 2011 by Alanl50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Pontang , sorry but steel are similar in price to lead and steel will do all you would ask from lead up to 45yards. Gamebore steel 32 gr £4.70 a box. Not may lead loads under a fiver these days. If I have to buy my own shells then I get steel , but as most of my shells are supplied by various farmers I still use a lot of lead. Edited December 11, 2011 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hi Cookoff Yes I realise that thanks anyway Mate, when fired you can watch the shot leave and go away from the barrel lol, I have a single barrel 12g Pedretti Hushpower I use for a very sensitive area for rabbit control occasionally pigeons. ATB Alan PS You got any recipes for a subsonic load as above?? yes alan, there are a few subsonic recipes floating about. 12 gauge 2,3/4" cx2000, 16 grains hodgdons titewad, 4mm powder card, 20mm fibre / cork, 32g lead shot, is about 1000fps and under 9000psi. burns clean. my next version i`m going to produce is cx2000, 16 grains vectan AS, 4mm powder card, 20mm fibre, 32g of lead shot, 1000fps or so, all the loads quite reserved, and are well within published parameters, but use plastic wads. i usually load 6s as i have those to use. but if after game or so, load #4s. the next i`m to try is the same load but with a plastic wad, the wad i`m going to use is a gu1227. it is because subsonics are really funny with how they fit in shell as a small amount of powder is used. the normal wads are too small. so will try and fit a tall 1oz wad in the shell. my crimps are on new shell and are good, not quite mirroring factory shell yet, because i dont roll them. apart from that i use 8 point and 6 point to tell me what shot i have in the hull. i`m going to guess and say you`ll end up reloading in a #5, it`ll be better, than just the 6. the term better meaning the bigger shot will contain more energy and for longer, meaning you can go for the shots you routinely wouldnt with subsonics. they pattern better too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Whitebridges they should do the job fine to 40 yards , but I bet they cost you a bob or two. Remmies are probably the best shop bought steel on the market and I use them for 12 bore 3.5 inch loads for geese in BBB and no 2 for mallard. Let us know how you get on with them. Thanks anser2, i'm going to give them a try. Dear as hell at £18.41 a box (25) but frankly if they do the job on mallard they'll be worth it.I also bought some 12g hevi-shot at £17.42 for 10 :lol: but I know how good they are. Sure i'll keep you posted on the Remmy steel loads. BTW the supplier is Workware Ltd in Eye Suffolk. Here is the link for their non-toxic loads and prices. Edited December 11, 2011 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Pontang , sorry but steel are similar in price to lead and steel will do all you would ask from lead up to 45yards. Gamebore steel 32 gr £4.70 a box. Not may lead loads under a fiver these days. If I have to buy my own shells then I get steel , but as most of my shells are supplied by various farmers I still use a lot of lead. We'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of steel. My personal opinion is that steel is nowhere near as good as lead. I've heard all the arguments for and against, have used a fair amount of both over the last few years, but will always choose lead over steel, unless I'm shooting over wetlands. About a month ago I paid £185 for 1000 GB clear pigeon, albeit a 30g load, but I'm much happier using them on pigeon than any steel shell I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thats a very good price for the GB clear pigeon. In most of the shops around here you do not much change from £200 a thousand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thats a very good price for the GB clear pigeon. In most of the shops around here you do not much change from £200 a thousand. His prices are pretty good. Probably about 10% cheaper than Just Cartridges and he sells everything at the 1000 rate too. He has three (might be four) 20ft transport containers full of cartridges. All makes except Hull, and game, clay and non-tox are always in stock. The only problem (if you're not local) is that he is a bit off the beaten track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I think too many people are blaming cartridges over their own poor shooting. I chop and change cartridge brands fairly regularly and my standard doesn't really alter. If i send a bird away wounded, i only have myself to blame. As for steel loads, i wasn't convinced when i first used steel 8 or 9 years ago. Now i would happily use most brands for most targets. I've converted steel haters who actually now rate the stuff highly. A 32gm steel load in 3 or 4 will do the trick on pigeons at over 40 yards as it is chucking a hell of a lot of good sized pellets out there. Doubters, try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 the mystique of steel will always confuse people. first, not all steel loads are what they say they are. i cut open a few lyvale shells, counted the shot. said 4 on the box. #5 in the shell. the gamebore stick to the advertised size. in some cases trying to select a like for like load, you are duped into buying a load that isnt even adequete or compatable. with the high shotcount, of smaller-lighter shot, propelled at slower speeds. no-wonder steel has a real bad reputation. first what needs to happen is, cip needs to grow a set, and allow steel to be pushed beyond 1400fps. ideally 1600fps, any after that just punishes the shooter. standardisation of shotsizes. no english enterpretation of an already existing system, no trying to fudge the shotcounts by changing the pellet size to a smaller one. the shells are being made in this country too, they just cant be sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Funny ain't it, I never ever have come across a duck suffering from lead poisoning, seen plenty tangled in fishing line amongst other birds! Seen plenty more wounding from steel and bismuth than before the lead ban! Those men in empty suits hey, gotta hand it to'em. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 wasnt the lead that was causing the issue from industrial waste? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Funny ain't it, I never ever have come across a duck suffering from lead poisoning, seen plenty tangled in fishing line amongst other birds! Seen plenty more wounding from steel and bismuth than before the lead ban! Those men in empty suits hey, gotta hand it to'em. U True! Biggest load of rubbish... lead poisoning in duck? ... how long do ducks that haven't been shot, live for? we're being duped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 True! Biggest load of rubbish... lead poisoning in duck? ... how long do ducks that haven't been shot, live for? we're being duped! no its conamination of the grit the ducks pick up thats the suposed issue on poisoning. Difficult to proove either way as if they are weakened by lead poisoning they will most likely die on migration not on the ground they are shot at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 To the OP those ducks sound like going away shots- its hard to reach the vitals on these shots on large duck like mallard. 35 yds is pretty much maximum range anyway. Personally i only take such shots on small duck like teal. To quote the old saying "hit them in the head and the ar** dies quickly, hit them in the ar** and the head can live for a week". A lot of the "steel issues" people have are purely phycological or range related IMO. A good shot with steel is a good shot with lead at 30yds and less but you realy struggle to pull off those lucky single pellet kills you can at times with lead once you get to 35 yds and over due to the inability of the lighter shot to hold onto energy. Note i am not saying steel wont kill further out than 35yds just that the shot charge has to be very well placed. For the greatest majority of us that means resticting ourselves on the shots we choose to take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 no its conamination of the grit the ducks pick up thats the suposed issue on poisoning. Difficult to proove either way as if they are weakened by lead poisoning they will most likely die on migration not on the ground they are shot at. That's the same conclusion the US Fish and Wildlife service arrived at. I can't say either way. I do know that the form factor (ie. staying round-no deformation) makes steel a useful projectile IF it is large enough and going fast enough. Steel 2s 1/2 choke 1500fps. will stone ducks at 40-45 yds. Steel 7s are useless unless using them for skeet. Steel 6s kill our Doves nicely to 45 yds if pushed at 1400fps through 1/2 choke. Steel being lighter can be jumped up quite a bit in shot size and still maintain pattern density. I am using 1 1/4 oz.lead bushing to drop 7/8 oz. of steel 6s. Gives you an idea of pattern density. If you shoot 1 1/8 steel 1s--2s 1/2 choke, you will have plenty of pellets and pattern density to insure adequate hits*. But you need speed to succeed. *Steel vs Lead Differences You Should Know shotshell.drundle.com/steel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I was using Bismuth at the begining of the season, the price has now put it out of range of the everyday shooter, it gave good results to be fair. After reading all the horror stories about steel I decided to go for the Gamebore Mammoth 36g No 3 for duck. The first time I used it, I had three birds none of them were dead, which I now think was down to bad shooting on my behalf. I decided to give it another go this weekend just to make sure. I hit two birds both stone dead, the shots were also over a longer distance. Better shooting maybe? I think there is a lot to say about shot placement, and people under estimating how far away birds actually are. I have seen people take shots at birds that i wouldnt dream of taking. With steel I think over the space of the last 5-10 yards it can lose a lot more energy that we think, stick to a max killing range of about 30-35 yards not 40-45 and i think you may get better results. I will be sticking with it, and practicing with it a lot more on clays. I used some this weekend on clays to to get some confidence in it. Until we are allowed to get higher spreeds from the steel shot like the Americans can, we will always blame the steel shot. When you we were all allowed to use lead, can you honestly say every bird you hit was stone dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjm Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I use RC's never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 When you we were all allowed to use lead, can you honestly say every bird you hit was stone dead? that statement is quite good. makes you think. i personally never have used lead on ducks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckboy1 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Get some mammoths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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