.17 Hornet

[bullet boy]

Had the 2012 new Savage Rifles Brochure through today and I've seen they make a rifle in .17 Hornet.A 20gr bullet that launches at 3,650fps!

Does anybody have any info on this particular calibre please?

Thankyou.

[al4x]

Its a new Hornady creation I believe looks quite interesting, certainly more so than the .22 hornet

 

http://www.hornady.com/store/Superformance-Varmint-NewAmmo

[bullet boy]

So I take it,it is a Centrefire cartridge?

[njc110381]

It's pretty much a factory recreation of the .17 Ackley Hornet wildcat round, give or take a few small details. It looks good - not that it does offer more than the .22 Hornet, it's simply different.

 

It certainly shoots flat but for economic vermin control it's going to be a home load only thing. Unless you're loaded or don't shoot much that is!

 

Rifles, well not much looks like it's going to be available in the states until the autumn so my opinion is don't count on it being in the UK for at least a year! I've got a local gunsmith sorting a custom Lother Walther .17 barrel for me though and reamers are available from Pacific Tool and Gauge - or me if you want to rent mine and save yourself a fortune.....

 

I think it's going to be a fantastic round. No more of a Fox round than the .22 version mind - even less so due to the light bullet perhaps? But it will kick the HMR's backside. It's another "jack of all trades but the master of none" as Al4x would say. But it's going to be a good fun piece of kit.

Edited March 8, 2012 by njc110381

[Cottonseed]

It's pretty much a factory recreation of the .17 Ackley Hornet wildcat round, give or take a few small details. It looks good - not that it does offer more than the .22 Hornet, it's simply different.

 

It certainly shoots flat but for economic vermin control it's going to be a home load only thing. Unless you're loaded or don't shoot much that is!

 

Rifles, well not much looks like it's going to be available in the states until the autumn so my opinion is don't count on it being in the UK for at least a year! I've got a local gunsmith sorting a custom Lother Walther .17 barrel for me though and reamers are available from Pacific Tool and Gauge - or me if you want to rent mine and save yourself a fortune.....

 

I think it's going to be a fantastic round. No more of a Fox round than the .22 version mind - even less so due to the light bullet perhaps? But it will kick the HMR's backside. It's another "jack of all trades but the master of none" as Al4x would say. But it's going to be a good fun piece of kit.

 

 

Will it be possible to re-chamber an existing HMR to accommodate this new .17 calibre and adapt from rim to centre fire?

Edited March 8, 2012 by Cottonseed

[Dekers]

Will it be possible to re-chamber an existing HMR to accommodate this new .17 calibre and adapt from rim to centre fire?

 

 

Yes, in the same way you can turn a Go Cart into a F1 if you really want to.

 

The .17HMR and the 17CF are very different animals.

 

I see little or no comparison really!

 

They both serve a purpose, but previous/current .17CF have hardly set the world alight or leapt off the shelves, I don't quite get the excitement here!?

 

Time will tell if this is a worthwhile exercise or just another plaything?

 

Guns are tools to me NOTHING more, I get by fine with what I have in a LOT of different situations, can someone please tell me just what job this will do that is not pretty well covered by every other type of calibre and ammo we already have?

 

Let me say upfront, I am not being cynical, simply practical, what is the world so excited about, tell me why I need one. There are already .17cf if I wanted one, I don't, why will things change with this???

 

Cheers

[njc110381]

Nothing changes. You simply get .223 trajectory out of a smaller and cheaper to run tool. With a heavier bullet it should slow down enough to shoot bunnies without wrecking them. My old .17AH would chest shoot Rabbits nearly as cleanly as a .22lr with a light loaded 25gr bullet yet it would shoot flat out to 150 yards no trouble.

[kent]

Yes, in the same way you can turn a Go Cart into a F1 if you really want to.

 

The .17HMR and the 17CF are very different animals.

 

I see little or no comparison really!

 

They both serve a purpose, but previous/current .17CF have hardly set the world alight or leapt off the shelves, I don't quite get the excitement here!?

 

Time will tell if this is a worthwhile exercise or just another plaything?

 

Guns are tools to me NOTHING more, I get by fine with what I have in a LOT of different situations, can someone please tell me just what job this will do that is not pretty well covered by every other type of calibre and ammo we already have?

 

Let me say upfront, I am not being cynical, simply practical, what is the world so excited about, tell me why I need one. There are already .17cf if I wanted one, I don't, why will things change with this???

 

Cheers

 

 

The main thing is the small case and small charge. Unfortunatly i dont think it will do anything over the existing .22 version as they put a 20grn pill in it, if the factory guns stabilise and are chambered to suit a 30 grn handload i think it has a bright future for those that like the .17's Personally i dont. It will certainly become the chambering of choice in custom .17's as soon as brass is freely available.

 

Now the big one! It looks like the perfect small furry varmint shooting tool, that you can sit at a bench with and shoot those squirrely looking little things all day with. Without heating your barrel up, with totally negligable recoil, less noise and lower cost than many other alternatives in the states. THING IS WE DONT HAVE NON OF THEM FURRY LITTLE SQUIRRELY THINGS HERE IN NUMBERS - DOG TOWNS SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST!

 

Perhaps i am missing an important point here? Please tell me if so BUT don't tell me it is safer as that within the realms of which shots are taken by the shooter or not should be a non factor

[casts_by_fly]

Will it be possible to re-chamber an existing HMR to accommodate this new .17 calibre and adapt from rim to centre fire?

 

 

No, unless you have a HMR which is based around a centerfire action in the first place. Aside from the firing pin differences, the strength of the action will be a challenge. When the remington 5mm rimfire was around, it was built on a thicker rim that a standard 22 and loaded to higher pressures (halfway between rimfire and low pressure centerfire). Those guns could be converted because the actions were substantial. I've not seen a current HMR that I'd consider substantial as they've been whittled back to save cost and weight.

 

 

Yes, in the same way you can turn a Go Cart into a F1 if you really want to.

 

The .17HMR and the 17CF are very different animals.

 

I see little or no comparison really!

 

They both serve a purpose, but previous/current .17CF have hardly set the world alight or leapt off the shelves, I don't quite get the excitement here!?

 

Time will tell if this is a worthwhile exercise or just another plaything?

 

Guns are tools to me NOTHING more, I get by fine with what I have in a LOT of different situations, can someone please tell me just what job this will do that is not pretty well covered by every other type of calibre and ammo we already have?

 

Let me say upfront, I am not being cynical, simply practical, what is the world so excited about, tell me why I need one. There are already .17cf if I wanted one, I don't, why will things change with this???

 

Cheers

 

 

Dekers,

 

I agree in part that this will still be a specialized tool for the UK market. Due tot he way that gun slots are regulated here, as a shooter you have to take the most practical approach. You can't have a gun unless it serves a specific purpose, thus why you see most people suggest a 243 or 223/22-250 (whether yes or no on deer), and 22LR as the set of guns to have . It is hard to argue that a different set is more pratical since that set will do basically everything you want. Taking away one of them will seriously limit what you can do. Replacing one will mean compromises.

 

For instance, remove a 22LR and you loose a quiet, cheap, and efficient tool for < 50yd small animals. Take away the centerfire and you're limited to small stuff only. Replace the 22LR with a HMR and you loose quiet and efficient. Replace the centerfire with a HMR/WMR and you loose power and range. Replace a big 22 with a 22 hornet and you loose a bit of power, but most wouldn't have a real difference aside from small deer if that is important to you. So in that respect I agree with you completely thata it doesn't fulfill an imperative niche.

 

Where I see the 17 hornet have a role to play is in the 'one gun for everything' crowd. How many people ask on here for rabbits and the occasional fox? The 17 hornet is perfect for that niche. Most of the time the recco is a hornet, but then it is a bit much for regular rabbits. The 17 hornet is designed for 20 gr bullets and perfect for rabbits out to 200 yards. If reloading it is almost as cheap as the 22 LR though not a quiet and not as simple (you're reloading after all, not just buying a box). And like the 22 version it is a 150 yard fox gun even with the 20 gr bullets. It is still a compromise over a multiple gun setup, but I think the 17 hornet is about the perfect performance for a jack of all trades.

 

thanks,

rick

[casts_by_fly]

The main thing is the small case and small charge. Unfortunatly i dont think it will do anything over the existing .22 version as they put a 20grn pill in it, if the factory guns stabilise and are chambered to suit a 30 grn handload i think it has a bright future for those that like the .17's Personally i dont. It will certainly become the chambering of choice in custom .17's as soon as brass is freely available.

 

Now the big one! It looks like the perfect small furry varmint shooting tool, that you can sit at a bench with and shoot those squirrely looking little things all day with. Without heating your barrel up, with totally negligable recoil, less noise and lower cost than many other alternatives in the states. THING IS WE DONT HAVE NON OF THEM FURRY LITTLE SQUIRRELY THINGS HERE IN NUMBERS - DOG TOWNS SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST!

 

Perhaps i am missing an important point here? Please tell me if so BUT don't tell me it is safer as that within the realms of which shots are taken by the shooter or not should be a non factor

 

 

Kent,

 

we've talk this through before comparing the 17 and 22 hornet. There isn't much difference in it. The 22 has more flexibility in bullets and can shoot heavier stuff if needed. The 17 has a bit flatter trajectory. If I'm shooting rabbits with the occasional fox then I'd take trajectory. If I'm shooting fox with the occasional rabbit I'd take the 22 and energy;.

 

thanks

rick

[kent]

Kent,

 

we've talk this through before comparing the 17 and 22 hornet. There isn't much difference in it. The 22 has more flexibility in bullets and can shoot heavier stuff if needed. The 17 has a bit flatter trajectory. If I'm shooting rabbits with the occasional fox then I'd take trajectory. If I'm shooting fox with the occasional rabbit I'd take the 22 and energy;.

 

thanks

rick

 

we all have our prefferences. Personally i dont see an issue up to 200yds with the .22 Zeroed at 130 its only 4" low, i havent a need to kill bunnies that far but 4" drop is very useable on crows and foxes (2 moa) to all intent and purpose its point and shoot on trajectory to 160 anyway. With 30grn bullets in the .17 i should very much agree, however speed has little effect on windage so the 20grn loading of this new round means its a non starter for myself. Hornaday of course have invested heavilly in .17 bullet production and to the best of my knoledge this is the heaviest .17 in thier range, selling a new cartridge like this is sound finatial logic rather than the higher BC 30's

Like i say though i am not the biggest fan of anything in .17 presently and i do know many are

[casts_by_fly]

Yes, I agree that there isn't much in it other than personal preference. Though I will say that in the short range we're talking about, speed has as much to do with windage as BC/weight/SD does. I'm not sure of your speed, but I know you're partial to the 45 gr hornet bullets (for good reason). If you are running them at 3200 though, then at 200 yards you're going to have the same or more wind deflection I will when I'm pushing the 20 gr bullets at 3600 (which is slower than they are running right now for me). Plus I've got +/- 1" when zero'd at 100 yards which is minute of bunny head to 200 yards. Needless to say a fox is not a problem either.

 

The 17 hornet doesn't do well with the 30 gr bullets. There just isn't enough horsepower to push them hard enough. The 30 gr bullets on the market are designed for big 17's and higher speeds, so when the hornet pushes them at 2800 at the muzzle they don't do as well terminally. Even the 25's aren't a spectacular fit though a lot of guys in the US like the 25 gr Hornady HP's for fox for just a little more anchoring power. In reality, the 20 gr is an awesome bullet for the hornet, and even the 17 gr HMR bullet is a really good one for rabbits and prairie dogs.

 

It is a smart move for hornady in that they have the tooling for 17 gr bullets already. It is also a round where guys will want to shoot volume, so the on paper volumes for the business case should be pretty good- minimal investment, high oportunity for return. They just need to create enough buzz initially and convert users to loving it. I don't see it happening here of course, only in the US/CAN.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[jamie g]

Yes, I agree that there isn't much in it other than personal preference. Though I will say that in the short range we're talking about, speed has as much to do with windage as BC/weight/SD does. I'm not sure of your speed, but I know you're partial to the 45 gr hornet bullets (for good reason). If you are running them at 3200 though, then at 200 yards you're going to have the same or more wind deflection I will when I'm pushing the 20 gr bullets at 3600 (which is slower than they are running right now for me). Plus I've got +/- 1" when zero'd at 100 yards which is minute of bunny head to 200 yards. Needless to say a fox is not a problem either.

 

The 17 hornet doesn't do well with the 30 gr bullets. There just isn't enough horsepower to push them hard enough. The 30 gr bullets on the market are designed for big 17's and higher speeds, so when the hornet pushes them at 2800 at the muzzle they don't do as well terminally. Even the 25's aren't a spectacular fit though a lot of guys in the US like the 25 gr Hornady HP's for fox for just a little more anchoring power. In reality, the 20 gr is an awesome bullet for the hornet, and even the 17 gr HMR bullet is a really good one for rabbits and prairie dogs.

 

It is a smart move for hornady in that they have the tooling for 17 gr bullets already. It is also a round where guys will want to shoot volume, so the on paper volumes for the business case should be pretty good- minimal investment, high oportunity for return. They just need to create enough buzz initially and convert users to loving it. I don't see it happening here of course, only in the US/CAN.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

well Remington come out with the fireball on the market and now they have stop that so it looks on some of the forums in the usa. so I cant see this doing that well.

going to be one for the reloaders.

[casts_by_fly]

Jamie,

 

Definitely a round for reloading. One of the big advantages of these little cartridges (the 17 hornet in particular) is that you get over 600 rounds out of 1 lb of powder. If powder is costing you £35 a pound, that is about 6 pence a round for powder. Compare that to a 308 pushing 50 grains and you're at 25 pence per round just for the powder. On a relative basis, reloading for the little rounds is cheap.

 

The fireball didn't catch on well because it was seen as a scaled down 17 rem. (1) The 17 rem has a poor reputation stemming from the original launches. (2) American't don't like a scaled down anything. I think the 17 hornet will do much better because (1) it is a scaled up HMR which was the main criticism of the already popular HMR and (2) A box of factory rounds will be much cheaper (and thus not as prohibitive) than the fireball. I think it will be a better offering.

 

I think the biggest challenge will be getting enough of the right guns chambered in it. The savage is a good start. Having browning do the micro in the 17 version will help as well. There still needs to be a UK CZ equivalent (good accuracy, relatively inexpensive) to compete with the savage though. I don't think the model 25 is a killer gun that everyone will drool over in the new cartridge. The 25 will be bought by people who already wanted a 17 hornet.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[kent]

Yes, I agree that there isn't much in it other than personal preference. Though I will say that in the short range we're talking about, speed has as much to do with windage as BC/weight/SD does. I'm not sure of your speed, but I know you're partial to the 45 gr hornet bullets (for good reason). If you are running them at 3200 though, then at 200 yards you're going to have the same or more wind deflection I will when I'm pushing the 20 gr bullets at 3600 (which is slower than they are running right now for me). Plus I've got +/- 1" when zero'd at 100 yards which is minute of bunny head to 200 yards. Needless to say a fox is not a problem either.

 

The 17 hornet doesn't do well with the 30 gr bullets. There just isn't enough horsepower to push them hard enough. The 30 gr bullets on the market are designed for big 17's and higher speeds, so when the hornet pushes them at 2800 at the muzzle they don't do as well terminally. Even the 25's aren't a spectacular fit though a lot of guys in the US like the 25 gr Hornady HP's for fox for just a little more anchoring power. In reality, the 20 gr is an awesome bullet for the hornet, and even the 17 gr HMR bullet is a really good one for rabbits and prairie dogs.

 

It is a smart move for hornady in that they have the tooling for 17 gr bullets already. It is also a round where guys will want to shoot volume, so the on paper volumes for the business case should be pretty good- minimal investment, high oportunity for return. They just need to create enough buzz initially and convert users to loving it. I don't see it happening here of course, only in the US/CAN.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

this should interst you then

I played around with the balistics. In the process i ever so slightly improved the .22 Zero i hold to presently moving it out to 135 yds (effectively 1/2" high at 100). The 17 with a 20 grn pill will go out all the way to 172yds keeping the same peak trajectory. Now in either case i just used 1/2" as the max peak trajectory and a 1.75" Bore to scope centre. Claimed velocity for the .17 and actuall chroned velocity for my hornet load

 

results show the .17 has a 1.5" trajectory advantage at 200yds

the .22 has a 2.18" advantage in a FV 10mph wind @ 200yds

 

Now call me a fool if you wish but i will willingly trade 1.5" of drop which can be easily compensated for a 2.18" wind advantage at 10mph when it comes to hitting the target first time. If nothing else because wind varies drop tends not to (unless its wind induced).

The .22 Hornet is not a 150yds fox gun please get real the energy and accuraccy is there in spades. 200yds or so is well doable by a competant rifleman a good one on a good day might then stretch that. Talk of 150yds makes the cartridge look like a slightly stepped up .22 WMR.

 

Terminals on foxes? sorry no contest the .17 -its a fluffy little critter gun as far as i see it.

 

BTW. how the heck do you load a Hornet to meet the costs of .22LR? Do you not mean 17 HMR? My maths cant handle that! How much you paying for .22 LR????

[casts_by_fly]

Just so we are looking at the same bullets and velocities, what bullet and what velocity are you using/getting? I am pushing the 20 gr vmx at 3600 and change. When i looked at the 45 gr hornet bullet vs my setup, the windage was the same or worse for the 22 under 200 yards.

 

I'm not loading the 17 to 22lr costs. That is just the powder cost mentioned above. Counting the disposables (brass is negigible since it lasts foever, equipment cost is spread over all guns), i am paying 20 pence per shot.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[kent]

Just so we are looking at the same bullets and velocities, what bullet and what velocity are you using/getting? I am pushing the 20 gr vmx at 3600 and change. When i looked at the 45 gr hornet bullet vs my setup, the windage was the same or worse for the 22 under 200 yards.

 

I'm not loading the 17 to 22lr costs. That is just the powder cost mentioned above. Counting the disposables (brass is negigible since it lasts foever, equipment cost is spread over all guns), i am paying 20 pence per shot.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

Come off it the bullet cost is very slightly revilvent in cost per shot. Brass doesn't last forever in any cartridge, indeed if care aint taken the hornet can be a brass gobbler (this just one reason i use hand dies and a light neck bushing) I normally dispose of any brass after ten firing in any cartridge personally

 

I reffer to 45 grn .224 Hornet Bullet from seirra @ 2900 FPS. These are not the best i think the best Hornet specific bullet is the RWS 46 grn TMS, its pretty darn good but the factory load only does 2550 fps in my gun still it holds around 1/2 moa group size at 225yds though . Issue is getting them as heads It would be less than a fair comparisom as such to run the figures on them at the same speed (i do know they are better), likewise a std .224 b/tip as although they would be very available they wont fit in a Hornet mag

 

Hornet .22 bullets are short and stubby even in the 45's to match the COL spec so BC aint as good as it can be, i know many alter CZ mags or go to a Ruger no.1 and utilise other higher bc .224 projectiles, not something i have played with personally.

 

The speed i used for the .17 is 3660 fps as stated in Hornady info. Speed like i say many times is a myth realy as regards windages. For example look at the 100yds windage of the HMR against the .22 LR @ 100yds. .22 subs are less than half the speed of the Hummer yet the 10mph FV 100yds windages are very similar- so close that you couldn't spot the difference shot in the same wind at the same time.

 

Might i point out we are talking claimed velocity presently for this new case, it might be possible to push it faster or it might not make such speeds in the average gun

[casts_by_fly]

Kent,

 

The 20 pence is counting the bullet cost. I'm factoring bullet, powder, and primer there. If you want to factor in brass cost with 10 reloadings, then add another 2 pence, so 22 pence per shot. Still far more expensive than a 22LR, but not as expensive as a HMR or any centerfire. I'll grant you this is an optimistic costing as I got a batch of primers cheap from a private sell and the bullets have come with me from the US (as did the brass).

 

3660 is a reasonable estimate. I'm getting 3600 and change (3600-3615) with a 17" barrel and sub optimal powder. If you want to push it out to a 20" barrel and shoot N120, a good number of guys on Saubier are getting 3800. Realistically though, 3600 is a good range for the 17 AH and 20 gr bullets.

 

I'm not sure which calculator you're using, but a 3600 fps 20 gr v-max drifts just under 6" at 200 yards in a 10 mph crosswind. A 45 gr semi point Sierra drifts just under 9" and the 45 gr hornet varminter is just over 11". Considering we talking about these being 200 yard guns, that is a significant amount to me.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[jamie g]

I've never factored in the costs of my reloads. To see if I could loaded them much cheaper the factory ammo.

all I care about is getting a accurate load for the rifle your loading for.

 

With the price of bullets.primers. and powder going up all the time there isn't really a massive saving in it all anyway.

It is nice having a calibre that only uses 18 grains of h322 powder.

 

The 1lbs tube seams to last a good time for the shooting I do. But reloading some up for the 270 at 51 grains a time it soon seams to eat it up

[kent]

Kent,

 

The 20 pence is counting the bullet cost. I'm factoring bullet, powder, and primer there. If you want to factor in brass cost with 10 reloadings, then add another 2 pence, so 22 pence per shot. Still far more expensive than a 22LR, but not as expensive as a HMR or any centerfire. I'll grant you this is an optimistic costing as I got a batch of primers cheap from a private sell and the bullets have come with me from the US (as did the brass).

 

3660 is a reasonable estimate. I'm getting 3600 and change (3600-3615) with a 17" barrel and sub optimal powder. If you want to push it out to a 20" barrel and shoot N120, a good number of guys on Saubier are getting 3800. Realistically though, 3600 is a good range for the 17 AH and 20 gr bullets.

 

I'm not sure which calculator you're using, but a 3600 fps 20 gr v-max drifts just under 6" at 200 yards in a 10 mph crosswind. A 45 gr semi point Sierra drifts just under 9" and the 45 gr hornet varminter is just over 11". Considering we talking about these being 200 yard guns, that is a significant amount to me.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

Yes, your comming up with way different drift figures polar oposites with bigger gaps between them to boot. My only thoughts are to reffer you back to what we know about speed (ok i know you disagree but its easy to play with this variable) and the HMR v .22 sub sort of back up what i say quite well does it not?. It seems strange that our results are so different i will run it through again on another program when i get a chance. Please tell me your not on that free program thats meant to sell scopes? Could you just PM me the bullet codes (descriptions) and the BC you program comes up with? I am told the afformentioned Chairgun uses a different drag function so this might explain it?

There is obviously an error somewere in one set of figures. Easy done via wrong data or wrong inputting meathod, good reason to shoot them i suppose

 

Kent,

 

The 20 pence is counting the bullet cost. I'm factoring bullet, powder, and primer there. If you want to factor in brass cost with 10 reloadings, then add another 2 pence, so 22 pence per shot. Still far more expensive than a 22LR, but not as expensive as a HMR or any centerfire. I'll grant you this is an optimistic costing as I got a batch of primers cheap from a private sell and the bullets have come with me from the US (as did the brass).

 

3660 is a reasonable estimate. I'm getting 3600 and change (3600-3615) with a 17" barrel and sub optimal powder. If you want to push it out to a 20" barrel and shoot N120, a good number of guys on Saubier are getting 3800. Realistically though, 3600 is a good range for the 17 AH and 20 gr bullets.

 

I'm not sure which calculator you're using, but a 3600 fps 20 gr v-max drifts just under 6" at 200 yards in a 10 mph crosswind. A 45 gr semi point Sierra drifts just under 9" and the 45 gr hornet varminter is just over 11". Considering we talking about these being 200 yard guns, that is a significant amount to me.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

We are being silly about costs now - i mean the bullets are costing more by the day with many going £20 a box of 100 in the UK

[casts_by_fly]

Yes, your comming up with way different drift figures polar oposites with bigger gaps between them to boot. My only thoughts are to reffer you back to what we know about speed (ok i know you disagree but its easy to play with this variable) and the HMR v .22 sub sort of back up what i say quite well does it not?. It seems strange that our results are so different i will run it through again on another program when i get a chance. Please tell me your not on that free program thats meant to sell scopes? Could you just PM me the bullet codes (descriptions) and the BC you program comes up with? I am told the afformentioned Chairgun uses a different drag function so this might explain it?

There is obviously an error somewere in one set of figures. Easy done via wrong data or wrong inputting meathod, good reason to shoot them i suppose

 

 

 

No the 22 vs 17HMR results don't come out like you think either. I'm getting 3.3 vs 5.3" at 100 in favor of the HMR. The 22 has twice the time in the air for the wind to act on it. Even a more than doubleing of weight can't entirely make up for a doubling of time in the air (though since the drift isn't 2x you can see that it is clearly helping).

 

I use JBM for all of my calculations. It has been right on the money for everything I've tested in real life (223/221/HMR/17 hornet/22LR). I use the G1 model and the built in BC's for anything they have there. For a 22LR there isn't a BC preset, so I've done some work on it before. For the remington subs at 1080 (measured on my chronograph) a BC of .11 matches the drops out to 125 on a 60 yard zero. So that's what I use there.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[njc110381]

Oh dear lord! Come on guys, can't we just agree that it shoots faster and flatter than the .22 and **** it that'll do?!

[kent]

No the 22 vs 17HMR results don't come out like you think either. I'm getting 3.3 vs 5.3" at 100 in favor of the HMR. The 22 has twice the time in the air for the wind to act on it. Even a more than doubleing of weight can't entirely make up for a doubling of time in the air (though since the drift isn't 2x you can see that it is clearly helping).

 

I use JBM for all of my calculations. It has been right on the money for everything I've tested in real life (223/221/HMR/17 hornet/22LR). I use the G1 model and the built in BC's for anything they have there. For a 22LR there isn't a BC preset, so I've done some work on it before. For the remington subs at 1080 (measured on my chronograph) a BC of .11 matches the drops out to 125 on a 60 yard zero. So that's what I use there.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

Your .22 lr are not representitive RF bullets are many and various There is 1/2" between 17 HMR and .22 Lapua subs. I prooved this in side by side tests as well as calcs on two or three programs. G1 is the std drag function and to the best of my knoledge its only Chairgun that doesn't use it, though i may be corrected on that if anyone nows more.

 

to the point anyway. Yes it appears it is me that had a glitch in his Data bank after cross refferencing (a good reason to test in the field and run on more than one program i suppose) The .17 20grn v-max @ 3660 is 5.71" better in a FV 10mph wind i conceed.

Indeed the only real advantage in the .22 (based on a 45 seirra) gosh i wish i could get them RWS heads is the improved Terminals of the .22 and a 60 ft /lb energy advantage at the said 200yds

 

The intersting thing is to emphisise the difference in this new .17 c/f and the same pill from a HMR is it is 600 fps faster than a HMR muzzle speed at 200yds- it will be interesting to see the possible terminal benefits of this as i am aware from personal experiance how impact speed has drastic effects on the terminals of this tiny bullet